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#art#painting#guernica#picasso#great#https#more#saw#person#paintings

Discussion (77 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

habosa2 days ago
I went to Spain as a teenager and saw Guernica in person. It was the first painting to ever really have an effect on me. It's stunning. A perfect example of how art can transmit a message between people across time and space, I just knew that I was feeling how Picasso wanted me to feel.

If you have the chance to see this painting you should, no website can do it justice (although this is a very nice try).

riffraff2 days ago
I have been to a bunch of galleries and seeing a painting in person doesn't usually make a difference for me compared to seeing it in a book.

Guernica is one of the few that did. Perhaps because it's massive compared to other well known paintings.

So, I just want to say, I second your recommendation for seeing it in person.

Daub2 days ago
One of the things that made seeing this painting a valuable experience for me was the plentiful background material it was shown next to… drawings, paintings, sketches etc. it showed the depth of creative process that Picasso employed.

One thing I have not seen discussed here is the fact that this painting was commissioned by the (Spanish) Republican government. Effectively, there is a degree of propaganda to the painting. No shade on the guy… my other favorite war crime painting is the executions of the third of may by Goya, and it was also a political commission.

Synaesthesia2 days ago
Guernica shocked the world. It was the start of aerial bombardment of civilians, something which we have sadly normalised since WW2. but which I regard as terrorism.

Picasso also painted another great work titled "Korea" in the same vein.

War is an abomination, something we should all fight against.

kjellsbells2 days ago
Years ago the BBC would put on educational distance learning TV on Saturday mornings. It's where I first learned group theory [0] ...and all about Guernica [1]. Both memorable TV for a bored teenager.

[0] https://youtu.be/wdYzAAG2VXs

[1] https://youtu.be/vuPNBeWmuSk

djfergus3 days ago
Amazing thank you. Allows me to quote my favourite art anecdote:

When Picasso was interrogated by an SS officer about his painting Guernica, “Did you do that?” Picasso replied, “No, you did.”

bigethan3 days ago
the way this displayed in the Reina Sofia is fantastic. it’s set in its own room that you approach from the side so you get this experience of turning a corner and boom there’s Guernica. Gave me chills.
aunty_helen2 days ago
It's a fantastic museum and a highlight of Madrid.
downut2 days ago
When we visited that room in 2012 or so the walls on the other 3 sides had Picasso's studies for the final painting.

The combination of those in proper size context to the astounding thing on that wall was... I dunno, very hard to bear? Chills and goosebumps. Just being in the presence of such genius. [Edited to add: I forgot! Many of the studies are clearly over complicated and colorful. And then you turn to see what was the final result. IMHO It's the same with genius software, in a different medium. Prose too, but maybe that's more contentious.]

There is no digital screen representation that can remotely approximate the psychic impact physical proximity to genius creates. I've felt this with many other greats as well.

I've sat alone in 3 different Rothko rooms. Damn. It's all I can say. You have to do it yourself. Tip: pan your eyes slowly while sitting in different corners.

dcrazy3 days ago
It’s also perfectly contextualized. In the same wing, there’s a lot of contemporary art and ephemera from all sides of revolutionary Spain, including a model of the building in which Guernica was displayed at the World’s Fair in Paris. It’s almost poetic how it was essentially confined to a basement, as if the republicans were admitting they were on the verge of defeat by Franco.
joatmon-snoo3 days ago
It’s really one of those things that you have to see in person and walk up and down along to understand. The scale of it alone is a huge part of what makes it so memorable.
satvikpendem2 days ago
Somewhat similar in terms of the high resolutions of its images, I also want to recommend https://artsandculture.google.com/ which not many know about, it's a great resource to see and learn about art around the world.
yubblegum2 days ago
The day I saw the John Singer Sargent exhibition (in the National Gallery of Art) is the day I realized how overrated people like Piacasso have been in my mind, likely due to cultural programming.
tzury2 days ago
Seems similar to operation night watch by the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam

https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/stories/operation-night-watch/...

tinkertrain2 days ago
If you want to know a little bit more about Guernica but only have about 15 minutes, I recommend this video by James Payne on his "Great Art Explained" channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJLH7JAsBHA

I recommend all of his videos actually, they are great.

slg3 days ago
I have been thinking about this painting a lot more in recent years because it always comes to mind when someone mentions AI art. It's arguably the most important piece by arguably the most important artist of the 20th Century (the "arguablies" are intentional, I'm not going to have that argument because that isn't the point of my comment, but including "arguably" makes them both statements of fact) and it's bleak, upsetting, and just flat out ugly, but that is all intentional and what makes it fascinating to look at. The goal of art isn't merely beauty. It's primarily communication. And this piece very clearly communicates the horrors of war. Sure, AI can make pretty pictures, but it can't make art because it has nothing to communicate.
joatmon-snoo3 days ago
Well, is Pixar’s Toy Story a work of art? Or what about Julia set renderings, where people make choices about the colors? ;)

Tongue-in-cheek aside, I do think I agree with you in that (1) art, as perceived by us human meatbags, is art because of the human element of it (if not in creation, then in perception), and that (2) AI absent explicit steering trends towards a rather bland medium.

But there’s art in everything from the blurry, out of focus, disposable film cameras, to a 5-year-old’s crayon scribble scrabbles, to the neon glitter themes we used to copy-paste over our geocities and xanga pages, and as frustrating as it is to our own sensibilities, an AI prompt “draw a pink elephant” isn’t all that different.

slg3 days ago
The element of creation is central to art. A painting or a photo of a sunset can be art, but the sunset itself is not art.

In addition, the communication doesn't need to be explicit or intentional. It can be communicating something antithetical to the artist's original intent like a blurry and out of focus photo. Or it can even be antithetical to the piece itself like a lot of modern art (Fountain[1] comes to mind). I'm also sure that the 5-year-old will happily tell you a story about why they scribbled what they did. I'm not diminishing any of those. But if all the person contributes is a prompt, the text of that prompt is the extent of their art.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_(Duchamp)

balamatom2 days ago
Is building a technofeudal entity and bootstrapping pseudo-AGI art?
chairmansteve2 days ago
As a tool in the hands of a great artist, AI will make great art.
robot-wrangler2 days ago
I'm not a fan of AI "art" at all, but this particular attack does leave something to be desired.

Beyond aesthetic judgements of good/bad or intentional stance re: communication with others, there is such a thing as "process art" which could also be described as communication with oneself, or as kind of being locked into conversation with the medium, or with the universe. People will get distracted here and want to fight about whether Pollack is good, but I think that's missing the point. It just happens to be a very direct way of engaging with the dialectic tension of order / chaos that's incompressible, irreducible, and completely without substitute.. and that's just one of many dialectics you could explore.

Another self-communicative aspect of art is about exploring the limits and mastery of technique, where the details and result per se don't matter much. You can see this with a bunch of dorks building useless programming languages and doing amazing stuff with them, or see it with a smith at a forge. Someone will say this is about being a technician or a craftsman, but I'd say no, those activities typically have a practical purpose. Especially if you're doing this for the joy of it without even caring whether you're actively learning something you can apply elsewhere, then it's probably art.

slg2 days ago
I’m not sure what specifically you think you’re disagreeing with me about because I don’t see what you’re saying as incompatible with what I said. Communication with oneself or the rest of the art world is still communication.

What makes Pollock’s art “art” is the context in which it was created. It’s not like One: Number 31, 1950 would have the same reputation today if you sent it back a couple centuries in a time machine. It’s appreciated because it’s part of an ongoing conversation.

agys2 days ago
It’s a strange feeling to zoom in until the cracks of the paint fill the screen.
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jbgreer2 days ago
My wife and I visited Reina Sofia last year and saw “Guernica”. That entire wing is fantastic: the section leading into the room covers war posters and other contemporaneous works, leading you into a room dominated by the painting, with side galleries focusing on smaller studies and post-work of characters.

Aside from the subject matter I was not prepared for the size of the work. It is one thing to see on a monitor or handheld screen, and quite another to see it full-scale. It is a qualitative change, not merely a quantitative one. So while this high fidelity picture allows one to study technique, color, and changes he made while painting, I think it misses the point. I say this without having read much commentary or critique of the work, but I imagine Picasso was so overwhelmed by Guernica that he wanted any viewer to overwhelmed, too. So if they do move it, I hope it is in a similar setting - in a moderately sized room, on a wall not much larger than the work itself, inescapable.

As ridiculous as it may sound, if you plan on visiting, plan two outings: one for Guernica, and one for the rest of the museum. That room and work are emotionally exhausting, and at least for my wife and I the intensity of that wing required a cooldown period.

walthamstow2 days ago
The episode of BBC In Our Time on Guernica was very interesting
cguess1 day ago
every episode of In Our Time is interesting. The new guy's doing a really good job too!
Groxx2 days ago
I would love to see this kind of thing as a Gaussian splat image, so the sheen at different angles is captured. It's somewhat important to making it look realistic.
world2vec2 days ago
The x-ray scans are interesting, I didn't knew the canvas was taped together from 33 smaller ones.
gonzalohm2 days ago
It's not. I think it's just the wooden frame behind the canvas
world2vec2 days ago
You're right, it's the stretcher!
dominictorresmo2 days ago
I don't understand why picasso is famous and considered a great artist
garethsprice2 days ago
I didn't either until I saw some of his early paintings and learned he was a brilliant classical painter from a very young age (eg. "Portrait of aunt Pepa", at 14). The later surrealism and abstraction weren't due to a lack of technical skill, but his deliberate choice to create a new visual language that would reflect the rapidly changing world around him.

That shift also reflected the era he lived in - one where visual arts played a central role in the cultural conversation - making him a true part of the zeitgeist that is hard to imagine now when visual art feels less central and more inward-looking.

A lot of what feels cliche now started with him, it only feels commonplace now as his influence was so massive.

Imagine being born in 1850 when everyone got around on horseback and paintings were realistic portrayals of people, landscapes, religious figures in muted tones. Impressionism (Van Gogh etc) arrives and is considered radical, then in 1907 you see _Les Demoiselles d'Avignon_ with its bright colors and abstract depiction of cavorting prostitutes. It would certainly provoke a reaction. The 20th Century had arrived.

dominictorresmo1 day ago
I didn't know that, that's very cool! I'll do more research about him. Thanks!
garethspriceabout 13 hours ago
It was a good question. Investigating why people like $popular_thing that you just don't get is a good way to broaden the mind.

I hope it leads to interesting discoveries and more art to appreciate for you!

jihadjihad2 days ago
Picasso was an artistic prodigy from an early age, and was talented at painting in the styles of the day like realism etc.

The reason why he is influential and not forgotten is that he took painting in an entirely new direction and was able to convey emotion and philosophical ideas (like in Guernica, for example) in a completely different way than what was typical at the time. In a lot of his work he strips things down and distorts them on purpose to show multiple perspectives, which isn't something that realism usually tries to do.

dominictorresmo1 day ago
put philosophical ideas in to paintings is an awesome idea! I'll look more of him. Thanks!
jihadjihad2 days ago
Another one to see in Madrid is the much earlier but similarly arresting painting by Francisco Goya, The Third of May 1808 [0].

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_of_May_1808

robolange3 days ago
I zoomed in as far as I could go and saw some occasional flecks of red. Is that just lint, or remnants of when it was defaced in the 70s?
Daub2 days ago
In Madrid’s military museum there is a little known painting done as a right wing responce to Guernica - The Paracuellos Massacres" (Las matanzas de Paracuellos) by José Gutiérrez Solana. The subject is the massacre of Spanish civilians by the Republican forces. It is almost as large as Guernica and done in a realistic style. As an obscure counterpoint to Guernica it has a curiosity value. It borrows heavily from the magnificent Executions of the Fifth May by Goya. Btw… All three paintings were commissioned as political statements. I remember seeing all three in one day when I was a young art student. A decidedly odd experience.
heyitsmedotjayb2 days ago
Good point - our understanding of this time period has been clouded by knee-jerk hatred, with few willing to admit that there was violence on all sides. It takes bravery to admit that a proportionate and measured response was warranted (within the bounds of international rule of law and order), given the pressures and incentives that communists were putting on Franco.
cubefox2 days ago
I was always puzzled by Guernica. It looks so ugly (I think most people who saw it for the first time and didn't know it was a famous painting by Picasso would agree), so how did it get so famous in the first place? Perhaps the point was that war is ugly, so the painting also had to be ugly? But it looks literally like a bad children's drawing. Maybe it got famous because a famous painter making an ugly painting on a serious subject was a novel and unconventional idea.
Theodores2 days ago
I had high hopes for the tiled image formats, which began with Microsoft Seadragon, a project they took on and closed down, as is the way. Fortunately someone forked OpenSeadragon, which is such an under-appreciated tool. Good to see an implementation.

If anyone wants to do their own tiled images, creating the tiles is the hard part, and the image processing toolkit VIPS will do that bit for you.

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kome2 days ago
guys that work for military tech companies, or somehow involved in military anything: zoom in on the horse's mouth. zoom in on the eyes of the person on fire.
heyitsmedotjayb2 days ago
All this fuss over 3 measly hours of bombings... What kinda painting are we going to make for Gaza?
rdos2 days ago
almost fell for it
heyitsmedotjayb2 days ago
when you put this stuff in perspective the lies really start to fall through