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Analyzed from 3883 words in the discussion.
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#europe#american#more#country#years#move#americans#moving#don#still
Discussion Sentiment
Analyzed from 3883 words in the discussion.
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Discussion (128 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
Growing up we always thought my grandparents were the weirdest people. They roasted and ate whole chickens, not cut up chicken parts from the grocery store. They drank tea and ate weird Russian tea cake cookies. They made their own sausage. They hunted ducks and deer. They ate raw beef.
Since moving to Europe I buy a lot of my food from neighborhood farms, roast whole chickens, make tartare, make cheese and sausage... hunting and fishing isn't so easy here though - I can do that when I visit relatives in the USA though.
How times have changed..
Speaking as an American that “accidentally” moved to the EU a decade ago, my impression is still that ambitious EU citizens, particularly those in tech or finance, would move to the US in a second if it was possible to.
That said, I don’t personally plan on moving back anytime soon, although I do miss certain aspects of the American identity and experience constantly.
FWIW I’m from Sweden but live in Switzerland. I work all over the world(currently in Rotterdam).
There is no way I would move to the dysfunction across the Atlantic.
The amount of capital available and the size of the American market dwarfs anywhere in the EU.
The fact that wasn't the case before just goes to show how big an impact the economic disparity has.
Being an entrepreneur with a dream or a freelancer, for example, is infinitely more socially acceptable in America than in Europe.
This is a nerdy reference to make, but I’ve always been fascinated with the idea of the Sprawl in William Gibson’s trilogy. There is something very American about it (and it’s situated in America) but that kind of chaotic dynamic culture-mixing space could never really happen in Europe.
I moved to Central Europe btw, but I’ve spent a lot of time in France and Germany as well.
I'd rather be on the side that supports Ukraine, clean energy, and stable trade agreements. I don't feel safe in the US anymore.
If I'm to believe my Portuguese friends however, the extreme influx of digital nomad types have really changed Lisbon. There's almost no authentic Portuguese thing there anymore, just thing LARPING as it. The rent is too high for any local young Portuguese to pay for, while the landlords are super happy for these influx of wealthy expats, so the young either move out of the city or move all together.
In a very utopia like set up, there's something depressing about that reality.
When I asked about to my expat friend living there, he acknowledged it, shrugged, and said "don't hate the playa, hate the game".
Anyway, enjoy the game!
Other cities offer much better value for money and hold a lot more of the Portuguese culture intact. There are beautiful cities and towns all throughout the country.
Also, did you consider any other countries that you later struck from your list?
You can do the immigration process yourself, but it's a long process with a lot of i's to dot and t's to cross. It was helpful to have experts guiding me through the process. Learning the language also helped a ton. The Portuguese in cities all speak English extremely well, but they really embrace you when they see you putting in some effort to speak Portuguese. I learned with Pimsleur for native pronunciation and Anki frequency vocabulary decks. I had some background with Spanish, so it was easier for me to learn Portuguese than starting from zero.
I also considered Uruguay and Malta but preferred the safety of Portugal and its bigger size.
If not, I imagine they will get tired of the low salaries and high taxes and move back to the US. It might be better here for artist types etc. who can benefit more from the social welfare systems than they have to pay in. But for engineers, it makes little sense - you are the one who has to pay for the party.
I think this data shows that a lot of Americans are waking up to our brand of "freedom" being bullshit. The American dream is a bit of a myth nowadays.
Americans lie to ourselves. If one isn't wealthy in the US, think top 15%, you're better off living outside the US. But Americans are "not yet billionaires" so most of us don't realize this. Our media pumps our hubris and egos using "freedom" and nationalism. Most Americans never travel outside of the US and believe our lives here are infinitely better than anything else in the world. It's something I see constantly when I talk international stuff with rural Americans(and the suburban cosplayer), an absolute fantasy version of the world.
The American dream is and has always been kind of a national myth but honestly if you limit it to purely making a lot of money by working hard, I think it’s still quite true, and the best place in the world to do so.
The U.S. isn't the shining-city-on-the-hill beacon it once was. I think that's pretty clear.
Wholeheartedly disagree. I see countless hard workers struggling immensely to get by here. Costs and inflation have spiralled the last 5 years while healthcare and education have been pricing out the middle class for over a decade. The job market is awful and getting worse by the day.
Let's continue improving quality of life for everyone. Europe doing better/being a viable alternative doesn't necessarily mean the USA is all bs. I'm pretty sure every country's people are more comfortable of how their country lives than foreign countries. Not sure why rural American's have a special carveout on that take.
I benefit by not having to worry about the homeless druggie assaulting me and on a more values-based level, by not feeling like shit for living like a king while the druggie has to be homeless.
The taxes are a membership fee for living in a society that isn't permeated with cruelty and violence.
Plus, they pay for stuff like working public transport etc as well.
I'll leave out my opinion on the topic but Switzerland has become noticeably more crowded in the last 20 years.
Expensive houses and low wages, vs appreciating assets and low labour costs.
One thinks of course about Eastern Europe which had a decent economic growth. Compare to many American HN Readers thinking, "Europe" in General tried to make a place better for living. What it means is of course very dependent on person, but consider thinks like better health care, no war (that's the EU for), better indro, but also economics but to certain percentage it worked out!
Though I can't say about American but health care and guns are still a problem. Compare to Europe which hadn't a start up 20 years ago and "Europe" tries to fix t.
What? health care is great in Europe and, if you want a gun, just register as a "hunter" in whatever country and take to Joe Biden's advice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-mztxHgYQo
Non-music(but less fun) version:
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=joe+bid...
Stay on for timely warnings how "Americans could be killed by a drone."
Our friends went back to Germany last year after 20 years in USA (permanent residents, didn't naturalize).
My family plans similar move as well in a few years, mostly blocked by my postgraduate program and exact location to return to. There are other scenarios where we'd move right away, like if my spouse gets laid off.
* https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/migration-and-asy... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Card_(European_Union)
A green card is probably equivalent to a permanent residence permit, those vary quite a bit between countries, and skills. Some countries might give a permanent residence in as few as 3 years, I believe quite a few have the 4 years threshold. Depending on what skills you have or how much you invest in the country you are moving to this timeline also shortens.
it is an interesting stat, but it might be good to understand the diff among US folks getting passports vs residence permits vs studying
For those that don't have Twitter.
The american century is over, but I'm not sure what comes next will be better, we will see.
[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2025/07/21/reco...
My child’s situation is somewhat different from many others in the U.S. He never has to worry about money because he benefits from the security of multi-generational wealth. He simply finds Europe and its values to be culturally superior to the United States.
Interesting how in a different comment you say
> I want the same for all Spaniards and will gladly pay high taxes if my family, friends, and my neighbors can also have that same opportunity.
For example, I thought if you’re resident in the US you might pay your main taxes there, but you’d need to “top up” in the EU.
What’s your specific workaround?
Most European countries have surprisingly strict visa requirements - and those apply to Americans as well. Unlike a short holiday trip, you can't just move because you feel like it!
The most likely path for the HN public is probably a "highly-skilled worker" visa, but that requires you to have a sponsoring employer in Europe - which means you won't be getting that fancy American salary. And you'll also have to pay local taxes...
If you know of one that does and is hiring, please share...
I think they stay for a few months. Maybe they just don't tell their company and the company still think they are working in the same place.
And, if they do, they might have legal issues brewing they are not aware of.
I know people who manage to do this, but it's difficult, and not really worth it unless you have a seriously amazing job.
Not sure about family, but you can get new friends here. When I go to the office, on my walk back home, I often pass by some very nice pubs overflowing with extremely happy and friendly people, and that is when I leave at 17:00.
You'll also get nice things like the metric system. And, in Ireland, one of the sanest political systems on the planet. It's so sane it's almost boring.
Moving to Europe is a smart move, but, having complete freedom, I'd think about someplace in the southern hemisphere. I believe Chile and Brazil will be stable for the next 20 years or so and have good overlap with US timezones. And both are quite far from most of the impending clusterfuck happening in Eastern Europe.
I took a nap at my desk for an hour (the license was needed on an airgapped system sneaker-netted over via an encrypted drive so I couldn't do this from home and the deadline had arrived).
Woke up and called back, different fellow, European. Every answer, in perfect english, was about 3 words long on average in a very dismissive tone.
I'd rather move to Australia.
The amount of "unaffiliated" Americans who move to Europe is probably negligible.
It would be one thing if people who are "unaffiliated USA citizens[0]" moved to an imaginary place where the grass is greener. You could argue they don't know about all the problems of that place.
It's maybe more concerning if the people who flew Place A, because of all the problems of Place A, looking for greener grass in Country B, are looking around and going "hey you know what? Place A wasn't so bad after all. The grass only looked greener because it's plastic!" and then go back.
[0]: let's acknowledge we're just talking shades of the same color, when referring to a country that's 250 years old. Nobody's "from there" really
I once had a Native American on one of my teams. That, and a lot of my fellow Brazilians here are at least partly of the original people.
Which came from Asia, through an ice bridge between Asia and North America a couple ice ages back, so, in the end, I guess we are all Africans.
At the time I moved to Ireland, I learned a vicious gang war was happening in the northern regions of Dublin. Up to April 2016, when I arrived, four (four!) people had been murdered in that unprecedented violent event.