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Analyzed from 1944 words in the discussion.
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#power#energy#battery#nuclear#batteries#storage#california#solar#grid#electricity
Discussion Sentiment
Analyzed from 1944 words in the discussion.
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Discussion (48 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
Source: https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/califo... under Additional Information about the Data:
> The use of the terms megawatts and kilowatts as descriptive of battery energy storage is to effectively convey the instantaneous power contribution of battery storage as comparable to the power produced by grid-level generators. We recognize that energy capacity in the context of energy storage typically refers to the total energy a battery can hold in watt-hours, kilowatt-hours, megawatt-hours, etc. However, for statewide planning and reliability purposes, understanding the peak power capability of battery energy storage systems allows for the integration of data with the nameplate capacity of traditional power generation units serving the grid. It is in this context that battery systems are able to be effectively compared for their ability to serve the grid over short periods of time, typically two to four hours per day depending upon system conditions.
Some legislation in 2010 set small targets for 2020 and it grew rapidly from there.
An array of batteries discharging 12,000 megawatts for ... 5 minutes? 1 hour? 1 day? is not comparable to a nuclear power plant generating 1,000 megawatts continuously 24/7 for months without refueling.
Also batteries are storage. They do not generate electricity. They store excess energy produced elsewhere, by actual electrical generation facilities, then release it later. You can't compare batteries to actual power plants.
That’s like saying “my gas tank can hold 500 horsepower”
In most countries the peak period is a 4-5 hour window.
Here's California: https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso?date=2026-05-15
Here's Texas: https://www.gridstatus.io/live/ercot?date=2026-05-15
This isn't the most advanced grid in the country, but it's just good business to displace the most expensive and dirtiest gas plants even if you still use gas for other tasks on the grid.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/open-...
From this graph we see that in the evening when solar power goes out, for next 3 hours (7 pm to 10 pm) California's battery array is as powerful as 12 nuclear reactors. Then the batteries are drained empty, and the rest of the night California survives by importing electricity from other states. And partially by running hydro power only during the nights, keeping it at zero during the day.
https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso?date=2026-05-15
Most nuclear reactors are about a gigawatt, but most nuclear power plants have multiple reactors. 3-6 GW per plant is perhaps a more likely measure.
Lets take your smallest "Nuclear plant" idea, if California owns 6 of those they run all the time but it needs 12GW extra at peak, where does that come from? If California owns 10 of those they run intermittently, you're still paying to have ten but not getting almost twice the benefit so your prices soar.
So the way you'd presumably fix it would be to... build loads of storage and own say 9 of these 3GW nuclear plants, drawing from batteries at peak then refilling them overnight. But wait, that's already what California did that you're unhappy about - so what gives?
Then we notice that in reality although you think "most nuclear power plants" would produce 3-6GW in fact California doesn't own ten, or eight, or six, but one such plant and it produces... drum roll... 2.2GW nameplate.
Batteries are normally talked about in terms of energy storage, not power.
IE: Batteries overall have 0 power. Everything they make had to come from somewhere else. Actually, because of losses in the 20%ish range, it's probably more accurate to say that California's Battery Array is __COSTING__ 2 nuclear power plants worth of power in electrical waste.
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Talk about GW-hrs of storage. You know, the value people actually cares about?
These 2 battery parameters depend on different constructive details of the batteries. The stored energy depends on the volume of the electrodes (or of electrolyte in flow batteries), while the maximum power depends on the area of the electrodes.
All combinations are possible, e.g. batteries with high maximum power and low stored energy or with low maximum power and high stored energy or with both high maximum power and high stored energy.
Natural Gas would crush these numbers at far less $$ invested.
All of this crap is apples vs bananas. It's all fake made up metrics
Strangely enough: natural gas is probably the better comparison because at least natural gas is a peaker / grid stabilization technology.
Batteries are energy storage while nuclear I base load. It's the most nonsensical comparison I can possibly think of.
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Energy storage should be compared vs energy storage. How is a battery vs compressed air? How is Li-ion vs Lead Acid? How is Pumped Hydro vs Li Ion?
Bad comparisons are bad.
https://www.blackridgeresearch.com/blog/latest-list-top-larg...
https://electrek.co/2026/05/11/uk-delivers-europes-largest-v...
I think they have slightly more grid batteries installed than California. UK have more people, but less money and less electricity used so I'd say they're doing better than California on battery deployment.
Managing the california grid is now completly different than any traditional grid in that peak power is managed seamlessly from solar/wind/battery power, not counting providing a significant, most?, of the daytime power, leaving just the nightime load running street lights and background loads. The stabilisation of costs, especialy durring a fuel crisis, is an invisible benifit that poorer countrys will be looking at as they plan there future grid updates, while struggling to keep the lights on right now.
So why is California's electricity the most expensive in the country?
There's a bit more technical info on California battery storage here:
https://www.ess-news.com/2025/04/11/california-battery-domin...
Let everyone do what they were doing in 1980, and prices would be rock bottom by now.
Some quick googling suggests this holds in California too.
Solar was fundamentally supposed to be almost-free electricity. You put a bunch of panels up and free energy from the nearest star. The stark reality though is that the people and institutions in control of solar equipment (this includes manufacturers, tariffs, etc.) reprice their stuff to match the price of the dirty electricity. And then they reprice their stuff again to assume that everyone loves to borrow money. At that point it becomes not worth it at all.
No, I don't want a solar installation to pay for itself in 15 years. I want equipment that gives me free electricity starting next month. If it costs less than a months' worth of electricity and I won't have an electricity bill starting next month, I'm interested. If not, it's outside my budget and planning horizon.
Why would people and institutions in control of solar equipment reprice their stuff to match the price of dirty electricity? You think there is no competition? Or you confuse it with the system that has been put in place where the price of electricity in the grid is set up by the most expensive producer at the time (which does make sense although you can argue against it).
Solar installation should pay for itself in less than 15 years in most cases, half the time according to that article: https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2024/10/03/average-u-s-residenti... (and residential solar is much less cost-effective than large-scale solar farms).
Another less obvious thing is that Californians don't use much electricity due to mild climate and efficiency programs.
Fixed costs therefore get spread across fewer units.
This is a topic in some nations where electrification is seen as a way of driving down per unit electricity costs even as you use more for heating or transport.
The real thing delaying the energy transition is politics, we have the technology.
And on a really small scale, here in NL we can build our own home battery storage systems with cheap 15kWh or 32kWh battery kits from China. Combine that with dynamic energy contracts it's amazing.
A 15kWh setup is maybe 3500 Euro, and 32kWh around 4500 Euro. Lasts at least 15+ years counting battery cycles.
Assuming the most expensive nuclear power plant in the world, assuming the solar is free and you are only paying for the batteries, assuming costs in line with the cheapest grid-scale battery storage in the world, about 6.5h worth of that nuclear plant's output.
That's on the right scale to power California with renewables alone! That's within sight. Anywhere less sunny, powering things with solar and batteries alone would still be very expensive.
Building 3GW * 2 hours of battery storage at current prices is ÂŁ1.75bn, so for the same money we get about 48 hours of storage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_...
https://www.lzyess.com/news/1571.html
Using a measurement for power as opposed to energy is dumb with batteries
watts are power, not energy. for example, a tea kettle might require 2kilowatts. this does not tell you how much does it cost you to use the tea kettle, because it does not tell you how long the tea kettle is consuming 2kilowatts.