Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

BBrajeshwar about 2 hours ago 29 commentsRead Article on techcrunch.com

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Discussion (29 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

camkego•about 2 hours ago

It would be fascinating to know where the remote drivers were located that were remotely controlling these vehicles. Wasn’t there a big hubbub about using remote staff in the Philippines a while ago? This can change the reliability profile quite a bit. (Internet quality)

pixel_popping•about 2 hours ago

Driving skill (and road manners) is also a serious issue, not only Internet quality (it's mostly solved nowadays with dual 5G/dual residential, Starlink is also available, np), getting a driver license is basically just paying a fixer for $200 (equivalent in PHP) and even if you attend the school genuinely and all, it's still super easy versus the west.

dghlsakjg•26 minutes ago

You might be overestimating how hard it is to get a license in the states.

My test was literally pay private driving school operator $50, pull onto a four lane road, change lanes, change lanes back, turn right three times to get back to the road, turn left, park successfully between the lines nose in, …and here’s a piece of paper for the DMV to give you a license. Maybe ten minutes, and have never had anyone check to see if I still know the rules in the 20 years since.

I’m sure it has gotten harder in some places, but we really don’t ask for much of new drivers.

Munksgaard•2 minutes ago

Having taken a license in both Denmark and the states, the test in the states was laughable in comparison. In Denmark, there are like 20 mandatory lessons, wet-surface practice, a theoretical exam and a practical exam, both of which people routinely fail (because they're hard). In the US, I paid 20 bucks, drove around the block, parked and received my license.

Neywiny•18 minutes ago

Not just the test though. In some states you need approaching 100 hours of signed off driving with an experienced driver (honor system though) and a certified course

BoorishBears•8 minutes ago

It's not for anyone else: the non-Tesla AV companies use teleops to at most place breadcrumbs that the vehicle attempts to follow while still in full control of collision avoidance and lower level navigation.

There is never an actual remote driver turning the wheel.

FireBeyond•30 minutes ago

> Starlink is also available, np

I would NOT be using Starlink for remote vehicle teleoperation even as a fall back.

pixel_popping•2 minutes ago

I don't get it, you prefer a road accident?

JumpCrisscross•19 minutes ago

> even as a fall back

Why this?

cyanydeez•about 1 hour ago

i think the bigger problem is the mechanical turk "solution" where remote drivers are suppose to suddenly be a driver in corner cases as if thats a safe fallback

outside1234•24 minutes ago

Just nuts this company is so highly valued still. Just clown level execution the whole way down.

xnx•about 1 hour ago

Meanwhile, Waymo is doing 500,000+(!) rides every week.

Computer0•about 2 hours ago

Does anyone know how the tele operators for either this or waymo interface with the vehicle? Do they have like a sim racing sort of setup? Are they trying to do this through an xbox controller type of thing? I know the military went that route.

arjie•about 1 hour ago

They have examples here: https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response/

The Waymo asks questions like "is this road closed?" and they also have a UI where they can designate in what orientation and where the Waymo should go to so that a path is drawn.

They don't live-control the vehicles. It's a pretty cool solution to the problem.

taylortbb•about 2 hours ago

At least for Waymo, the remote control is not nearly that direct. The human operators suggest a route through a confusing scene, but the self driving remains in control for executing that suggested route, and may reject it.

A remote operator driving directly, via a racing sim setup or an Xbox controller, just isn't safe. Too much latency, lack of visibility, and connection unreliability.

AlotOfReading•about 2 hours ago

Tesla's setup are a bunch of desks with steering wheels crammed together in a normal call center [0]. Waymo doesn't do teleoperation, but other companies exist that have like Vay. Compare their setup [1].

[0] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuE3ie2WcAAyeWs?format=jpg&name=...

[1] https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/6828f0...

nomel•3 minutes ago

Waymo does do teleoperation [1], and they defend its use [2]. Human fallback isn't something to be ashamed about. AGI doesn't exist at the moment.

[1] https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response/

[2] https://www.reuters.com/technology/waymo-defends-use-remote-...

jnsie•35 minutes ago

I assume/hope that Tesla teleoperators are required to have drivers licenses in the states in which the cars they are operating are located?

FireBeyond•29 minutes ago

Given that some of these teleoperators are in the Philipines, and Tesla's sterling reputation for adhering to regulation and laws, I'm going to hazard my own guess.

whynotmaybe•about 1 hour ago

It must be hard to resist to drive the GTA way with such a setup

xgkickt•about 1 hour ago

They’re called off ramps for a reason right?

senordevnyc•about 2 hours ago

Waymo doesn’t have remote operators in the same way Tesla does. They can assist with making a decision on what to do if the car is stuck, but they do not remotely drive the car the way Tesla does.

whynotmaybe•about 2 hours ago

W-A-S-D on a Dell keyboard wouldn't surprise me.

joe_mamba•about 1 hour ago

Hey, like so many others, I managed to beat NFS Underground 1 and 2, Most Wanted and Hot Pursuit using only the budget brand e-waste special keyboard, no analog controllers.

IIRC some of the top NFS players also used the keyboard instead of fancy racing syms.

So it's probably possible to control real life cars with a keyboard, provided they implement dedicated input filtering, PID controllers or Kalman filters, and throttle maps, instead of having a key press just be 100% gas/break.

metalman•about 1 hour ago

doing the math would be a bit laborious, but does anyone happen to know the kinetic energy embodied in a tesla going the full "ludicrous" velocity?, which by all acounts, can happen very quickly in a short distance.

somenameforme•8 minutes ago

The article describes the incidents. Both incidents happened at < 10 mph, did not involve other vehicles, and ended up with nothing more than some scratches to the vehicle. The "crashes" from the title is yellow journalism.

lotsofpulp•about 1 hour ago

According to Tesla, the remotely operated Teslas are limited to 10mph.

https://www.markey.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/company_response...

senordevnyc•about 2 hours ago

So not only do they still not have truly unsupervised cars, they also remotely drive them sometimes, and their remote drivers have helpfully demonstrated why that’s a terrible idea.

Tesla is such an embarrassment.

ramesh31•36 minutes ago

Why are we allowing this? Who does it benefit at all? People would lose their minds if you tried this in commercial aviation, yet we're allowing it for something far more dangerous that even with human operators kills people all the time. Absolutely insane.