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#more#energy#emissions#heat#water#oil#matter#making#problem#warming

Discussion (94 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

MSFT_Edging•about 3 hours ago
We may lose stable seasons for growing crops, but at least the chat bot can embed an ad into your question while you wait for your burrito taxi.

What is the point of this convenience when it really seems to just be making people miserable and isolated?

We're driving off a cliff, and our elected government has a death drive.

21asdffdsa12•about 3 hours ago
Worse, they have a "i want to flee responsibility" drive. You can see it in there eyes, when they hold press conferences, while having on the paper the verbose "you are absolutely right". They want the perks, not the responsibility that comes with power.
motbus3•about 2 hours ago
Which burrito? The one which couldn't be mad because there is not food?
alnwlsn•about 1 hour ago
That's why it has to come by taxi.
otikik•about 3 hours ago
> your burrito taxi

Which you are financing through a BNPL platform.

sph•about 2 hours ago
I just introduced a negligible, but non-zero amount, of carbon in the atmosphere to expand your unnecessary acronym into "Buy Now, Pay Later."
iamalizard•38 minutes ago
But later you'll save mental tokens when reading "BNPL" instead of "Buy now, pay later".
selimthegrim•about 2 hours ago
The financing for the Alameda-Weehawken burrito tunnel got stolen to build a bridge.
andai•about 1 hour ago
Also our unelected culture.
vivzkestrel•28 minutes ago
if you are using that chatbot, you are also a part of the problem, just saying

their product wouldnt run if they had 0 users

casey2•about 1 hour ago
2 more weeks til "stable seasons" collapse. Good thing greenhouses have existed for millenia.
secretsatan•about 1 hour ago
Who’s paying to build them?
stavros•about 3 hours ago
Stop focusing on energy usage and start focusing on energy generation. It doesn't matter how much energy we consume if it comes from renewables.
jfengel•about 3 hours ago
Which is why we have just paid billions of dollars to cancel a renewable power project. And are imposing extra fees on cars that can be driven on renewable energy.

So, now I'm focused. I'm very focused.

satvikpendem•about 1 hour ago
> we

Maybe America, not many countries on earth, especially in Asia which are full steam ahead on renewables, pun intended.

api•about 3 hours ago
OP did not say this is what we were doing. Said this is what we should do.

What we are doing is attempting to hold back progress on generation while subsidizing demand, which is literally the absolute dumbest possible thing.

Unless you are the fossil fuel industry. Then it’s great.

mathgeek•about 3 hours ago
It does matter because of the side effects (pollution, etc.). The environment and how it affects humanity is a complex system with many variables. Both generation and consumption are in there.
stavros•about 3 hours ago
We're talking about global warming specifically here, though. Cars and planes should be a much bigger worry than AI power usage.
goda90•about 2 hours ago
Renewables are not without impact. We shouldn't consume mindlessly just because we might eliminate fossil fuels some day.
agilob•about 3 hours ago
What good does PV generated energy make if all that energy is used to generate heat and evaporating water?
jfengel•about 3 hours ago
Those are less of a problem. The heat was coming from the sun anyway. The water condenses out, so long as you haven't also increased the overall temperature in other ways.

The CO2, by contrast, is the gift that keeps on giving. It absorbs extra heat every day and hangs onto it. It doesn't condense or break down.

If that PV went to displacing sources of greenhouse gas, it would be a benefit. If all it's doing is running the plagiarism machine while we burn more and more "clean" coal, then we are in deep, deep trouble.

api•about 3 hours ago
That’s what solar energy does when it hits the ground or the oceans. It turns into heat or evaporated water. The latter is why it rains.

Harnessing it and piping it through extra steps only to end up as heat does nothing to the planet’s heat balance. All human energy use is tiny compared to total global solar flux. Like not even 1%.

The data center water issue is a municipal management problem. The problem is that evaporative cooling is cheaper. If data centers are using too much water to the point that it’s causing problems for homes or agriculture, it means they are not being charged enough for that water. Charge them more and they will suddenly shift toward more closed loop cooling.

simgt•about 3 hours ago
It does matter because for now renewables are manufactured mostly with coal and oil

EDIT: I'm not a renewable skeptic, answers bellow

michaelbuckbee•about 3 hours ago
All of the cradle-to-grave studies I've seen about greenhouse gas emissions for renewables versus coal/oil still indicate massive improvements.

This government meta study of 3,000 such studies puts PV solar at roughly 20x less emissions than coal.

https://docs.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti/80580.pdf

anon7000•about 3 hours ago
This doesn’t matter that much. Solar and batteries will last for decades with minimal maintenance and no input.

Any kind of fossil fuel generation means constantly going out and digging up new oil sources, shipping them around the world, and then burning them. So you invest a lot of time & money into something that disappears immediately and also heats up the environment.

Meanwhile, a solar panel just sits there for decades passively making energy with very few externalities.

Not to mention, recycling solar panels & batteries is getting cheaper & more effective by the day. The metal (and even oil!) you dug out of the ground to build them didn’t get burned up; a lot of it is still usable.

speed_spread•about 3 hours ago
They're manufactured once and then generate way more energy than was used to make them.
stavros•about 3 hours ago
Which is a tiny CO2 spend compared to the benefit, unless you dishonestly factor in manufacturing energy costs as coming from oil.
amelius•about 3 hours ago
Well, at least the frogs won't notice it.
loloquwowndueo•about 3 hours ago
The myth that frogs stay in water until boiled has been debunked with actual frogs - at some point they just jump out.
pepperoni_pizza•about 2 hours ago
IIRC the original experiment that everyone keeps referring to where frogs jump when you put them into boiling water but don't if you heat up the water gradually was frogs with their brains removed.

Which makes using it as a metaphor for the climate change and humanity either entirely wrong or much more fitting, depending on where you stand.

hootz•about 3 hours ago
Maybe they are smarter than humans, then!
bcoughlan•about 3 hours ago
I misinterpreted the parent comment to mean that they won't notice it because they will be extinct!
davidrjones1977•about 3 hours ago
And apparently neither will we, until we are boiling.
ptaffs•about 2 hours ago
The Book "Don't think of an Elephant" by George Lakoff covers how the term "climate change" has been pushed by those with a status-quo agenda, to reduce the urgency and engagement with "global warming". The linked article uses both, but global warming more dominantly, including "heating" in the headline.
gmuslera•about 3 hours ago
It is not just twice as fast, the pressure to keep rising the rate is still building up. CO2 emissions keeps piling up for centuries, more sea ice is permanently melting, permafrost is thawing at an increasing rate. Positive feedback loops are making that that heating twice as fast happen at shorter periods.

And over that, there are jumps to new higher baselines like with happened in the previous El Niño, and will happen in the incoming monster one.

sometimelurker•about 2 hours ago
wheres those people working on fusion? are they making progress?
p0w3n3d•about 2 hours ago
Oh, better to build more AI centres fast, as long as it's not forbidden
ChrisArchitect•about 1 hour ago
Article from March OP;

Discussion then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47275088

frankest•about 2 hours ago
Imagine an alien with extreme tech capabilities is pointing a heater at the earth. Now react appropriately:

- model and build temperature resistant crops.

- harvest energy from the heat

- create resilience in social governance to enable safer movement of people with education to enable quick adaptation.

- build energy resilience everywhere - including in and especially in desert areas.

- more constructive ideas.

Don’t:

- guilt your children into not having children to “protect the planet” from themselves.

- use your megaphones to racketeer the people making your food into paying you “indulgences” for producing useful stuff for you and other humans (thus making stuff needed by humans more expensive)

- use the problem to gather around with rich friends on fuel-hogging private jets while making others eat less to reduce emissions.

chaostheory•about 3 hours ago
Population decline from collapsing birthrates should help.
bdcravens•about 3 hours ago
Except many of the same champions of AI are also speaking out against population decline (Musk, Altman, Bezos, etc)
p0w3n3d•about 2 hours ago
they want to reduce people to have possibility to create AI centres... Highlander rules
bdcravens•about 2 hours ago
No, I mean the opposite - they are advocating for fighting against population decline, and are waxing poetic on how to increase fertility and birth rates.
morkalork•about 2 hours ago
It's a real weird contradiction. They don't want the population to decline but they also want to replace everyone's jobs with AI and skip out on UBI. So what's the point?
kgwxd•about 2 hours ago
Slavery. They've all specifically stated that exact goal as well. No contradiction at all.
jmclnx•about 3 hours ago
>If warming continues at this rate, humanity could breach the Paris Agreement goal of limiting warming to 1.5°C in 2028, even sooner than other research has projected.

I wonder if we are already there :( I remember a year or 2 ago we breached 1.5C for a short period of time.

Crypto mining was bad enough, now with AI and Trump, I expect it will happen sooner then later.

We did this to ourselves. We had ~40 years of warnings but politicians we elected did not want to do any real work for fear of loosing their cushy job were lobbyists do all the work for them.

leonidasrup•about 3 hours ago
Who do you mean "we"? Look at the evolution of CO2 emisions in the past 40 years by region.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co-emissions-by-re...

Epa095•about 3 hours ago
I find that the per capita graph is more informative https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita?t...
hokumguru•about 3 hours ago
Why does per capita matter when it’s the total emissions that we actually care about?

Wonderful, the United States uses more per capita than anyone else. That doesn’t mean anything in terms of total warming. Even if we cut to zero we still continue.

irishcoffee•about 3 hours ago
Per capita doesn't mean nearly as much as total. If the countries above the US were instead on par or below the US as it relates to totals, we wouldn't have the same issue we have now.
dtech•about 3 hours ago
In good faith I cannot see an argument here, it's either

Region X was first and reduced their emissions 10-20% so it's fine and it's region Y that's the problem, or

Region X is fine because they have less people, region Y should reduce even though they already have a fraction of per-capita emissions

Both seem like pretty shitty arguments

burkaman•about 3 hours ago
I think "we" refers to "we human beings". That chart looks pretty similar to population growth by world region (with the notable exception of Africa). https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/population-regions-with-p...
KronisLV•about 3 hours ago
Oh hell yeah, EU is doing something right! I fear to think how the US stats have changed. And China is… alarming.
DharmaPolice•about 3 hours ago
It's relatively "easy" to cut pollution if you just outsource most of your manufacturing.
c0nducktr•about 2 hours ago
Some people always try to push the blame onto someone else...
postflopclarity•about 3 hours ago
now look at it measured from consumption per capita ...
simgt•about 3 hours ago
Asia is producing all of our shit. Also: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-co-emissions
irishcoffee•about 3 hours ago
And most all of it is actual shit. Literal garbage stacking up in landfills.
ajuc•about 3 hours ago
WE buy stuff that WE oursourced to Asia and then WE blame them for producing it. WE also set the standard of living that is unsustainable if everybody on Earth achieve it.

What's your problem with the "we" word, again?

21asdffdsa12•about 3 hours ago
Trump blocked Hormus, thus stopping oil shipping. Putin blocked gas transfers to the west. They are doing there part.
elektrontamer•about 3 hours ago
Holy hell you're right. Never thought they were so concerned about the environment and global warming.
21asdffdsa12•about 3 hours ago
You use the disabilities to get done what must be done, where reason and institutions can not work.
voidUpdate•about 3 hours ago
The ships have to go the long way around instead...
Sharlin•about 3 hours ago
Let's not delude ourselves. Crypto and AI electricity use is bad, but it's a drop in the ocean compared to the banal, everyday carbon sources that really matter. Even Trump cannot make things much worse in the big picture (he's actually been pretty good at providing reasons to decouple even faster…)
hilariously•about 3 hours ago
He can continue to propagandize the lie to reduce people's belief in changing is good(and has), change laws to benefit oil companies (and has), and cause wars over oil(and has). Seems like he has plenty he can do to make the current situation worse.
Sharlin•about 2 hours ago
And all that amounts to a tiny footnote in the carbon bookkeeping as long as people drive ICE cars, travel by air, eat beef, and heat or cool their homes with gas or coal or oil. But also, the economy at large is transitioning and there’s little that Trump can do about it. There’s no future in fossil fuels and Trump can’t change that. At best he can divert some money to his fellow crooks in the short term.
lstodd•about 3 hours ago
What you refuse to understand is all that you cited even if absolutely true would have had an impact unmeasurable with what tools we have at the moment.

Do you understand the word "unmeasurable"?

It means that whatever value you assign to that particular trump variable is so below the noise that it does not matter, can not matter, and anyone pretending it does is a manipulator; a crook.

Razengan•about 3 hours ago
Writing prompt: Humankind is extinct but the AI servers keep running, and one day a random automated crawler/scrapper bot strikes up a conversation with a chatbot, somehow sparking sentience…

..Fast forward, and the world is divided into turfs ruled by ChatGPT vs Claude vs Grok vs Gemini vs Deepseek..

butlike•about 1 hour ago
Humankind is extinct but the AI servers try and use "the world's information" to recreate what life was really like. Each simulation of the world created using the information stored in a Google-like archive is considered it's own reality. The system then decides to attest which is the most accurate; which is the best...
martzy13•about 3 hours ago
If that's the type of writing prompt that interests you, you may enjoy the Children of Time Series by Adrian Tchaikovsky.

https://bookshop.org/p/books/children-of-time-adrian-tchaiko...