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79% Positive

Analyzed from 4296 words in the discussion.

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#https#open#claude#code#more#glm#source#codex#opencode#harness

Discussion (206 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

cube00about 5 hours ago
It's impressive all these companies are getting away with "base usage allowance included" [1] or "standard limits" [2], layering the higher plans as a multiplier of that "base" but never disclosing what it is.

I guess the base is whatever the profit margin needs to be this month.

[1]: https://zcode.z.ai/en#:~:text=Base%20usage%20allowance%20inc...

[2]: https://support.google.com/gemini/answer/16275805?hl=en#:~:t...

ranyumeabout 3 hours ago
When running the app, it actually tells you what the base usages are, but the name of the plans are different from the page. It reads:

Start plan: 5 Million tokens a day (GLM-5.2 3M, GLM-5 Turbo 2M)

For individuals: (+150% quota) $18.00USD+ For individual developers with a dedicated Coding Plan quota.

SwellJoeabout 3 hours ago
Now, if only we can figure out what all the others are providing as part of their subscriptions we can compare. (Though 3 million tokens of the top model per day seems kinda low. But, I guess that's what the 5x plan is for. I'd still like to be able to compare against all the big providers.)
ranyumeabout 1 hour ago
Note that it says "start plan" without a price tag. The price tag for the other plan is the one on the page. I don't know what it is because I haven't set up an account to use it, I set up a custom provider in the app.

The app itself is interesting to me. I can see most of the agent trace (I can't see the tool definitions and the tool input args), I can set up skills and make the agent manage them and I can define sub-agents as well.

The UI itself is a bit weird, but I guess it's not thought to be a general purpose file editor.

trentorabout 1 hour ago
You can just track the tokens used in Claude Code and codex until you hit the limit?
nucleativeabout 3 hours ago
A strategy that can backfire. An unpredictable tool is worse than a bad tool.
seizethecheeseabout 6 hours ago
I'm somewhat surprised that this is not open source (from what I can tell). Compare to Mimo Code https://github.com/XiaomiMiMo/MiMo-Code (which is a CLI, while this is a desktop app).
SwellJoeabout 6 hours ago
I don't even know what I would do with a desktop app. I'm running these things in headless VMs, so I can run them with `--dangerously-skip-permissions` or whatever. I don't trust them, even without that flag, on my desktop/laptop.
teaspoonabout 5 hours ago
Good desktop apps in this category can manage agents across any number of remote SSH hosts.
SwellJoeabout 5 hours ago
But, it's still running on my desktop/laptop. I don't trust them to run on my machine. But, I guess I could run one VM with a desktop to contain the desktop app. Or, just keep using CLI agents.
mattnewton30 minutes ago
But then I close my laptop and it’s not running on the headless host anymore right
nutjob2about 4 hours ago
What's stopping a CLI from doing the same?

I've never used IDEs and never will, why are these things being constantly shoved down our throats?

ahmadyanabout 3 hours ago
a well-design IDE should abstract that away, i.e. run the agent in the headless VMs while give you an abstraction that you would feel like you are running the agent locally with all the benefits (editor, browser, diffs, debugger, etc)
InsideOutSantaabout 5 hours ago
Zcode allows you to connect to a Docker container, or to a VM using ssh.
FergusArgyllabout 4 hours ago
I finally repurposed an old server just for that and for anyone reading who has not had a chance to use --dangerously-etc. it's awesome, do it :)
LaurensBERabout 6 hours ago
They might be sending some user requests to Anthropic to gather trading data for their own models. If they do so, perhaps they need to add some tracer to request that they prefer to hide.
bermudi13 minutes ago
I wonder if you're as cynical and untrustworthy of American companies as well or is it more of a racism kinda thing
jijjiabout 1 hour ago
or more likely, sending it to the CCP
neonstaticabout 1 hour ago
Californian Communist Party?
fwipabout 5 hours ago
Wireshark would catch that easy-peasy.
benatkinabout 3 hours ago
The request would need to be done from their service, so as not to expose the API key, and because it just makes sense. They could probably directly proxy it and Wireshark couldn't catch it, due to everything being HTTPS. But people could probably catch it by decompiling, so it would make more sense to have the server make the request as part of a GLM request. Not that I think this is plausible - I'm not sure.
bogdanabout 5 hours ago
Source? Or is it "trust me bro"?
DonsDiscountGasabout 5 hours ago
"might" means pure speculation
embedding-shapeabout 5 hours ago
Literally just FUD unless someone has code to point at.
dizhnabout 6 hours ago
It's only a cli because they yanked out the opencode desktop code. (As well as the opencode go/zen model provider)

Edit: my theory is they wanted to mimic being the primary provider in a quick way with a lot of string replace. Though they could have added opencode back as a regular provider.

versteegenabout 2 hours ago
MiMo Code adds a lot of cool orchestration features to OpenCode! It definitely is NOT a quick find-replace job, it's genuinely someone's research project to create a better agent harness building on top of free software, and that's awesome. See https://mimo.xiaomi.com/blog/mimo-code-long-horizon
saghmabout 5 hours ago
Given that there's such severe concern being expressed by Anthropic about Claude being distilled, and the idea that the harness is part of the the moat, it doesn't seem super surprising that the other side of that would try to also make it harder for them to tell how well they're doing and what their approach is.
JSR_FDEDabout 3 hours ago
Unlikely considering they’re publishing the Crown Jewels (GLM 5.2) as open weights.
ccoabout 4 hours ago
You're surprised? I think harnesses are almost as important as the underlying model. Folks have been able to improve benchmark results by nearly 2x based on harness alone.

Harnesses are quickly becoming critical components of the "model" itself imo. Not shocking to me at all that a company that spots a revenue opportunity is keeping its harness closed source.

bermudi12 minutes ago
Source? The most trusted benchmark right now (deepSWE) scores better or just as well on their minimal harness than when using CC or codex
anderberabout 2 hours ago
That looks to be a copy of OpenCode
russelgabout 2 hours ago
A fork, yes.
_pdp_about 4 hours ago
I am not surprised it is not open source. These harnesses are hard to build - they are not just wrappers - and often they contain business logic that is not suitable for public distribution for all kinds of reasons.
NamlchakKhandroabout 3 hours ago
hard? wut lol....

no. they. are. not.

Some people are just terrible at it.

_pdp_about 1 hour ago
I was thinking the same and I changed my mind.

Also you don't need to believe me. There is enough evidence in the open source space.

m3habout 6 hours ago
Z.ai documents integrations with nearly all the popular CLI-based agents: https://docs.z.ai/devpack/tool/others

If you're already used to your TUI coding agent, you don't need the desktop agent. Although it is nice that it is there for folks who prefer the Codex App/Claude App UI approach.

InsideOutSantaabout 6 hours ago
Yeah, I use GLM 5.2 in OpenCode, running in a Docker container with CodeNomad as the web-based GUI. It works perfectly; I can access it from anywhere, and it runs all models (except for Anthropic's subscriptions).
owentbrownabout 6 hours ago
From your experience, is it comparable to Claude Code with Opus 4.8? How does it feel? How do the two differ?
InsideOutSantaabout 6 hours ago
It's comparable, but not the same.

For some tasks, it's better. Opus refuses tasks for me pretty regularly. GLM 5.2 has never refused a task. So for anything security-related or that touches on topics that trigger Opus's safety guardrails, I use GLM 5.2.

OTOH, for anything related to UI design, I use Opus 4.8. It's much better at taking relatively vague descriptions of user interfaces and a mockup of a related UI and combining them into an immaculate design.

For anything else, I tend to run tasks in Opus and then have GLM review them and write a Markdown file with anything it finds. Then I have Opus review the markdown file and fix the issues it agrees with. The reason I usually go with Opus 4.8 first is mainly that it's faster. Opus 4.8 is, on average, about twice as fast as GLM 5.2 running on z'ai's infrastructure for the same task. There's a large variance (sometimes GLM 5.2 is pretty fast and Opus 4.8 is pretty slow), but on average it's a very noticeable difference.

When I run into Anthropic's Quota, I switch to GLM 5.2 rather than Sonnet. I don't think there's much reason to ever use Sonnet for anything if you can use GLM 5.2 instead.

This is all pretty subjective, of course. On average, I think Opus 4.8 is still a better, more reliable, and faster model, but if it went away tomorrow and I only had GLM 5.2, I wouldn't be too sad about it; I'd get things done with GLM 5.2 just fine.

m3habout 6 hours ago
Also, kudos to the Z.ai team for adding Linux support from day one.
KronisLVabout 6 hours ago
Looks quite pretty! Not sure if I want to try that instead of OpenCode, maybe. OpenCode also has a desktop app, I will admit that I like their TUI one better (and honestly more than Claude Code TUI) but whole the desktop version is kinda more basic, it's nice enough: https://opencode.ai/download

That said, it's interesting that they're releasing a bunch of stuff: ZCode, OCR.z.ai, Image.z.ai, Audio.z.ai, AutoClaw and some other stuff that https://chat.z.ai/ links to. That's a lot of stuff for one org to pull off.

Figured I'd try out their Pro coding plan, seems like it doesn't necessarily give me that much quota than Opus (at least given how many tokens are needed for accomplishing a certain task), but GLM 5.2 in of itself seems like a beefier Sonnet model, pretty good.

bitladabout 6 hours ago
Their tui is quite heavy and crashing quite often as compared to claude code.
dimglabout 5 hours ago
Which are you talking about? OpenCode or ZCode?
bitladabout 5 hours ago
OpenCode
hdzabout 1 hour ago
When the harnesses commoditize, it will be the dynamic things like skills that will be the most valuable, useful thing you can bring to a harness. That seems like a long ways away though. There are still meaningful performance differences between agent harnesses.
paxysabout 6 hours ago
UI-wise this looks a lot closer to Codex than Claude Code. It's basically an exact copy of Codex.
hazelnutabout 6 hours ago
I would very much agree. Even the hand icon, the usage in the text field, and the sidebar style are 1:1 identical to Codex. It's a misleading title - it's not close the Claude Code.
scotty79about 5 hours ago
Which makes keeping Codex closed source look even sillier. Software is no longer anyone's moat. Just let it go.
subarcticabout 4 hours ago
I thought codex was open source https://github.com/openai/codex
tekacsabout 3 hours ago
The CLI / engine is, the desktop app and its plugins (e.g. computer use) are not.
toddmoreyabout 6 hours ago
Does anyone use an agnostic TUI or harness for development tasks that can fairly seamlessly switch between providers?

I'm wanting local context in the spirit of "here are 3 AI providers available, for coding tasks use this one... and for writing prose use this one... and for generating images use this one..." etc.

l00sedabout 6 hours ago
https://opencode.ai/

OpenCode was the first agent harness I used, and I have always like it. You can configure a wide variety of providers, but it's open source and has a number of core contributors.

The other opinionated option is Pi (the Pi agent harness). This is a great lightweight option and also supports a number of providers. You can also use local model servers.

deathmonger5000about 2 hours ago
Circus Chief allows you to do this: https://github.com/ferrislucas/Circus-Chief

(Full disclosure: it’s my project)

bredrenabout 5 hours ago
I’ve written a skill for codex and Claude code that designates an orchestrator on the primary worktree and is agnostic about what type of AI workers are on the N supporting worktrees.

The orchestrator knows which AI client is running in any given worktree, so it would be fairly easy to designate which AI should receive what kind of tasks.

You run either Claude or Codex in tabs for each work tree. I do have some AI TUI specific instructions, for instance codex is primitive at monitoring compared to CC. So, there are additional notes for Codex workers on how to properly monitor for new "mail."

You work with the orchestrator on the primary worktree and allow it to delegates tasks to the workers and answer their smaller questions.

It surfaces results and assisting them with context clearing when needed.

The orchestrator and workers communicate using a simple shared file system under tmp/* and together they can handle a big and varied workload.

I use iterm2, so I’ve also added iterm2 specific python that allows the orchestrator to “kick” a worker or perform tasks otherwise veto'd by the TUIs (ie /clear) by modifying the input and submitting it.

daytonixabout 6 hours ago
have used both pi and opencode for the last 6 months, haven't opened a proprietary harness (cc, codex, cursor) in that same amount of time. right now i'm on pi and i can switch seamlessly between any model across any provider i want, even mid session. can even point them at locally running models.

i think people don't realize how much better life is over on this side, cc and codex rely entirely on vendor lock in imo.

fcarraldoabout 5 hours ago
Does a mid-session provider switch result in loading the entire context into the new model, inflating session cost?

I don't think I understand the token/cost implications of this feature

gunalxabout 4 hours ago
Its nice if you used local, but needed å beefier modell, or more context Window. It will eat input tokens, but you do that all the time unless you have input caching.
jcmfernandesabout 1 hour ago
Are you using openrouter or something else?
l00sedabout 6 hours ago
Haha I pretty much commented the same thing one minute apart.
mr_mitmabout 5 hours ago
You can use Claude Code with a self hosted model no problem. I don't believe you can switch during a session though.
esafakabout 6 hours ago
why did you switch from oc to pi?
daytonixabout 5 hours ago
i like the more minimal design of the tui, feels more integrated with my existing terminal workflows. oc always looked a little out of place. i really like pi's extension ecosystem as well.
FergusArgyllabout 4 hours ago
codex is open source https://github.com/openai/codex/ it's definitely geared towards openai but it is completely open source
jbonatakisabout 5 hours ago
I’ve been using Crush with Openrouter and have good success lately

https://github.com/charmbracelet/crush

wolttamabout 6 hours ago
I use the one that I've been developing since 2023. It's intended to be used in exactly this spirit! Written in Go, has image support (which has yet to be fleshed out).

It supports MCP (unlike Pi), sandboxing (with user-mode networking), and runs efficiently at huge contexts.

https://codeberg.org/mlow/lmcli

(The screenshot in the folder is a little bit out of date, but is still representative of the overall look)

himata4113about 3 hours ago
I stumbled upon https://omp.sh and haven't really felt the need to ever use anything different.
esafakabout 3 hours ago
"omp is a fork of Pi by Mario Zechner, rewritten as a coding-first surface: sessions, subagents, slash commands, extensions — all TypeScript..."
maxlohabout 5 hours ago
Also Goose from the Agentic AI Foundation (AAIF) (subsidy of the Linux Foundation).

https://goose-docs.ai/

MangoCoffeeabout 4 hours ago
i like Chinese open weight model that offer cheap token but i only use it for my personal project.

China have a history of stealing IPs/trade secrets and Chinese court favored its own local companies. while US have a robust court that can enforce IPs. if you want to risk your company's IPs/trade secrets/data for some cheap token. Go ahead and use Z.ai's services.

kingjimmyabout 3 hours ago
FYI you can use Z.AI models on infra not in China...
maxlohabout 5 hours ago
I don't find a closed-source Chinese agent system trustworthy.

It is essentially a black box with full user permissions, meaning you are just handing over your entire system to a Chinese-owned server. With OpenCode and its GLM provider, at least I can monitor which files were read, which were edited, and what commands were executed.

Not to mention that Chinese national security laws legally obligate companies to cooperate with state intelligence and counter-espionage efforts [0]. If you have this installed on a corporate workstation, and your company is large enough, the possibility of them spying on you is not just a risk—it's almost a certainty.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Law_of_t...

Escapadoabout 5 hours ago
I agree. I don't find the US competitors trustworthy either. I think open source is the way here.
simjndabout 5 hours ago
Thank you. It doesn't make sense to me how much people trust our companies so much more than Chinese ones for no reason. This country has an abysmal track record when it comes to respecting its citizen's rights or privacy. Propaganda working as intended I suppose.
andy99about 5 hours ago
It’s not no reason. At a fundamental level I don’t trust the companies any differently. But at a professional level, nobody is going to question my using Claude or OpenAI in a professional capacity - to work on customer projects, analyze their data, etc.

I also consider Microsoft to be the biggest industrial spy in the world, them and google both are no doubt mining everything you type into office / gsuite, all your emails, etc. But nobody bats an eye when you write a word doc about some sensitive matter.

If my customers thought I was feeding their data into a Chinese owned LLM API (which to be clear I’m not), I don’t think it would go over well, and I’d be exposed legally to all sorts of things.

So the reason is risk aversion and desire to participate in US / western commerce. One can debate the actual threat, but why would you ever risk sending your data to a processor perceived as dodgy?

estearumabout 5 hours ago
If you think the US has an "abysmal" track record on this, what words would you use to describe China's track record?
MaxHoppersGhostabout 5 hours ago
China is still doing horrendous things to its population that the US stopped doing over 100 years ago. Not the same.
ahrzbabout 4 hours ago
At least the model weights are open, I’m not American, so to me this is much more trustworthy in every possible way. You’re talking as if US intelligence are the good guys, and to me at least, they are not to any extent.
LeBitabout 4 hours ago
We are talking about an agent harness here, not a model.

Nevertheless, Americans thinking they are morally superior to China is always quite funny.

This administration is corrupt, cruel and doesn’t care about human rights.

And the worst is… Americans have voted for that administration…. twice!

I digress…

patrickpruntyabout 4 hours ago
How is this an agent harness? It’s the harness and the model if it’s weights
snootypootabout 4 hours ago
foolish to blame one administration rather than all administrations since jfk was killed for trying to change things
dakolliabout 4 hours ago
While Trump is terrible, all the same morally questionable practices existed under Clinton, Bush, Obama, Biden. This administration just likes to brag about it. The US has been controlled by an evil technocracy/intelligence apparatus for 25+ years that gives zero f*ks about democracy or a constitution.
galaxyLogicabout 3 hours ago
What can you gain by looking at the weights, whether open source or not? Are they not what determines the model's output, but in an oblique way? We can't really fix the weights ourselves, weight by weight, or can we?
dakolliabout 4 hours ago
There's no way to safely use SOTA LLMs if privacy, and IP protection are your concern. Unless you want to spend 100k+ to host a 1T param model. Even if you use OpenCode you're sending all that information to random data centers you know nothing about.

But yes, US intelligence has killed and ruined the lives of far more people than China has. Not sure how so many people buy into the narrative that they're protecting freedom and democracy.. They're protecting their freedom to kill and crush all their enemies and control every "democracy" on earth.

andy99about 4 hours ago
You can run one on a cloud provider. You’re correct that intelligence orgs probably still can access them, but if you’re that high value of a target then you have bigger problems and / or can afford to build an air gapped system or whatever. If you’re just concerned about other companies mining your messages, self hosting in the cloud solves that.

Reminds me a bit of the old “is your adversary Mossad or not Mossad” decision matrix https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1401_08-12_mickens.pdf

switchbakabout 4 hours ago
"US intelligence has killed and ruined the lives of far more people than China has" - please provide a strong argument for this statement, with numbers and sources.

I'm no apologist for the US Intelligence and related organizations (not by a very long shot), but that is a very extreme statement to make.

d3m0t3pabout 5 hours ago
This is exactly the same with providers from the USA.
kordlessagainabout 4 hours ago
Run it in a container under Opencode. It works great, and I even upgraded to their pro plan (~$60/month). If you want it in a container, there's info in my profile under my projects. That code is entirely open source, and it's there simply because I built what I needed for my own work. I'm sure there a zillion other ways to do it. However, I highly advise against running any agent on bare metal, regardless of the company's country of origin. My thesis addresses this directly and repeatedly.

By the way, some pedant recently asked why anyone would run software with only a few stars. My thoughts on that are minimal: people can practice whatever slop logic they want. I've architected and built systems that handled tens of thousands of users. I'm not fucking around. The way I build isn't typical, and I don't suggest anyone try to mimic my approach, but it works for me and the way my mind processes complex systems.

To the peanut gallery: use it or don't, but don't give me a hard time unless you're ready to get one back. I've made plenty of mistakes in my career, and accountability is a crucial part of growth. I'm more than willing to work with anyone using my code, provided they bring valid, substantial criticism to the table.

arikrahmanabout 4 hours ago
That's why I like to use Reasonix with Deepseek. Hitting cache makes requests basically free and that's through unsubsidized American providers like Digital Ocean or cloudflare.
kachnuv_ocasekabout 4 hours ago
You can always run it in bwrap or rootless podman.
mrosenbjergabout 4 hours ago
nono, the sandboxing tool, has been working great for me
eeasssabout 5 hours ago
If you are not US based that’s not really a big concern.
ianm218about 5 hours ago
I think it’s a real concern. Chinese companies are much more closely tied to the state, as in if you decide to go to China one day they might already have all the data on how you have interacted with their models.

The US is certainly inching in that direction but it’s not like someone from the US government sits at Anthropic’s HQ reading chats from state people of interest.

CptFribbleabout 5 hours ago
> all the data on how you have interacted with their models

1) there is a very non-zero chance that the US government also has that data from OpenAI and possibly Anthropic

2) unless you are asking the chinese models to draw up plans to overthrow the chinese government, it's extremely unlikely they would ever care.

while china has a track record of harassing it's own dissident citizens abroad, if you're not chinese and not trying to subvert their government (or are a high-ranking government official yourself), it's kind of silly to suppose they would ever care about you or what you do.

and if you have information they want for their own national development purposes, like EUV engineers, they are much more likely to offer you fabulous amounts of money instead of try to intimidate or threaten it out of you.

blitzarabout 4 hours ago
> if you decide to go to China one day they might already have all the data

PRISM ... XKeyscore ...

> The US is certainly inching in that direction

Itching to go in a direction that (publicly known) they have been in for decades now.

saberienceabout 5 hours ago
It's interesting how you would say this about China but not about the US, especially given what's happened recently with Anthropic and the US govt.

Do you really think the US government doesn't get access or couldn't get access to any of your chats with Claude?

mempkoabout 1 hour ago
I'm in the US. The benefit of the Chinese spying on me vs a US company is the Chinese can't come to my door and take me to jail.
scotty79about 5 hours ago
How's that different from Codex (gui app) or Claude?
InvertedRhodiumabout 4 hours ago
Codex is open source: https://github.com/openai/codex
sejjeabout 4 hours ago
Well, it's different from OpenCode
ElFitzabout 4 hours ago
The codex cli too is open source, afaik.
dingdingdangabout 4 hours ago
In a sense it's a clean reminder that all these, especially non-local, llm tools should NEVER run outside a container. I'm currently looking at z-jail specifically for these scenarios; VMs are too heavy & expose too many sec issues of their own for continual integrated use in my case.
efficaxabout 4 hours ago
yes but the americans are also doing it, and i don’t really work on anything worth spying on
snootypootabout 4 hours ago
so basically no worse than europe or usa, but they are just more open about it
diego_moitaabout 4 hours ago
> It is essentially a black box with full user permissions,

You mean, like Windows and Android?

tristorabout 5 hours ago
As someone who loves using OpenCode w/ local Chinese open source models, this is basically my take on this as well. There's no way I would ever put a piece of proprietary Chinese software that gets full system control on anything important. This is definitely something I would only ever run sandboxed in a lab environment for toy projects, not for serious work. I feel only marginally better about Codex/Claude Code, hence my strong preference for local LLMs w/ OpenCode, but a proprietary approach to Chinese models is a hard no from me dawg.
soni_anuj14 minutes ago
what is then VS code with GitHub Copilot ? It primarily does the similar things.
d3Xt3rabout 6 hours ago

   For GLM Coding Plan subscribers, quota consumed via Coding Plan for GLM-5.2 in ZCode is discounted by the coefficients below — the same usage draws down less quota, roughly 1.5x the effective allowance.
   
   Peak hours (14:00–18:00 daily)  3x -> 2x
   Off-peak (remaining 20 hours)   1x -> 0.67x
I wonder whether that is referring to local time, or CST (UTC+8)?
dadoumabout 5 hours ago
From https://z.ai/subscribe#code-plans-container:

> Explanation and Recommendations Regarding Usage for Plan-Supported Models

> Note: Peak hours are from 14:00 to 18:00 daily (UTC+8).

qaz_plmabout 5 hours ago
Peak hours are 14:00–18:00 (UTC+8)

https://docs.z.ai/devpack/overview

d3Xt3rabout 5 hours ago
Thanks. Those are some odd hours though, why would evening time be peak hours? Usually (in the western world anyway), 9AM - 12PM would be peak hours. Things normally slow down post-lunch, and be its slowest at close-of-business.
kgeistabout 1 hour ago
I run a corporate AI server and coding peak hours here are 1PM-5PM judging by AI usage stats. My guess is that people spend 9AM-12PM in meetings and at lunch, and the actual coding starts around 1 PM.
TurdF3rgusonabout 5 hours ago
Because westerners are using it is my guess and for them that's right in your window
VulgarExigencyabout 4 hours ago
They're peak hours in Beijing
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raabout 2 hours ago
I've been using this for a few weeks and it's a real workhorse.
fastballabout 4 hours ago
This isn't a CLI, so not really like Claude Code. Looks more like Cursor or Conductor.
MarceloHenryabout 3 hours ago
Can anyone tell me if Z.AI's cheapest plan is more or less generous than Claude's cheapest plan? If it is more or less generous, could you describe the extent of the difference?

(If this comment is too formal, I'm sorry. I used Google Translate to it [this line was NOT translated])

zackifyabout 3 hours ago
I got around 17m tokens on glm 5.2 then blocked for 4 days on the weekly limit on that plan.
MarceloHenryabout 3 hours ago
17M tokens... I think it is a lot. What were you working on?
bearjawsabout 2 hours ago
Is that 17M output tokens?

At 200k context that is only 85 requests for a whole week.

davikrabout 2 hours ago
That's like 30 minutes of MCP usage.
WhitneyLandabout 3 hours ago
What’s with the 3 subscription plans that are suggestive of being mapped to plans from Anthropic and Open AI?

Do they really correspond roughly? Seems like they’re trying to suggest a discount while still being worth a significant amount of monthly spend.

ahmedehab_01about 3 hours ago
I don't get why not open source it? You are already open-sourcing your weights!
oathvzabout 3 hours ago
Because a harness can more easily stop backdoors of a model. A packaged app on the other hand ... let's say I'll skip this until I can compile and package it.
spudlyoabout 3 hours ago
One of these is not like the other.
aziis98about 6 hours ago
Is this GUI only?
InsideOutSantaabout 6 hours ago
Yes.
guybedoabout 5 hours ago
if you're going to try this one out, don't be surprised to get this message repeatedly, like 4 out of 5 prompts you're trying to send, 24/7, this is gonna be your new friend, then you'll learn to write the only prompt that matters: "retry", "retry", "retry"

Here's the message: "Cannot connect to API: write EPIPE"

Aeroiabout 6 hours ago
sweet! i'm heaviliy using glm 5.2 in mouse.dev which is great for mobile. the ui looks really good, similar to cursor agents window ect.
unleadedabout 6 hours ago
As someone who doesnt use these tools, why does every AI company need their own version of Claude Code? Is there more to it than vendor lock-in?
ambicapterabout 6 hours ago
"Quality" of the harness matters a lot to the user experience, and the construction of the harness will depend on the behavior/quirks of the underlying model. So, if you're using Claude Code, you can expect it to work best with Anthropic models, and expect other model-makers to want you to use the harness they've developed.

But mostly vendor lock-in, I imagine.

theredleftabout 6 hours ago
implementing their own version of steganographic monitoring lol
dcreabout 6 hours ago
A joke but also not a joke.
ernsheongabout 2 hours ago
Is there any desktop coding app that can be used with local LLM?
burgerzzzabout 2 hours ago
I built vibn.dev for this purpose, it’s very rough around the edges tho
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mosbyllc39 minutes ago
There are now more and more Harness clients. I hope we can have the best open-source client and the best open-source models, as this would greatly facilitate our work and operations. However, this seems unlikely in the short term.
gck1about 5 hours ago
It's sad to see that the teams that have the most resources that can contribute to development of next-gen harnesses are essentially copying the same exact thing from each other, with no meaningful changes.

And most of the advancement and experimentation happens in some random 0-star github repos.

gtirloniabout 5 hours ago
Could you share some of these 0-star github repos?
gck1about 5 hours ago
I've been working on my own private harness for the past 8 months, and I've been collecting ideas from such repos I've stumbled upon.

pi-tmux is one such example (seems to be archived now) which inspired me to use tmux as communication layer and provide visibility of subagents of multiple models in their native harnesses [1].

There's also herdr, which is not 0-stars, but is super interesting but lesser known project [2]. This also has interesting substrates to allow agent coordination.

None of these are harnesses per se, but they're pointing towards clear gaps in existing harnesses. For example, we've known for a while now that compounding knowledge of different class of models achieves better performance. Why is there no harness where this is a native functionality? And there's no harness where subagents are first class citizens both in terms of capabilities and UX.

[1] https://github.com/offline-ant/pi-tmux

[2] https://github.com/ogulcancelik/herdr

nadermxabout 5 hours ago
There the ones with most to prove
Art9681about 5 hours ago
Yea not touching this with an any-foot pole. They are just keeping up with the Joneses now. There is no reason for this to exist but there IS a reason it is not open source. ;)
TurdF3rgusonabout 5 hours ago
Isn't competition and open markets a reason for this to exist?
scotty79about 5 hours ago
Funny, I think the same about Claude.
aniviacatabout 4 hours ago
Didn't Claude Code pioneer this style of agent?
casionabout 3 hours ago
They said Claude, not Claude Code.
pl04351820about 4 hours ago
Try to understand the token usage/cost with subscription plan comparing with Claude Pro. Is there benchmark somewhere for such info?
andaiabout 4 hours ago
I think they market is as 3x the usage for the same price. Although, the prices are not the same, and Anthropic's usage constantly changes, so...
sourdecorabout 2 hours ago
Those are some odd hours though, why would evening time be peak hours? Usually (in the western world anyway), 9AM - 12PM would be peak hours.
brianjkingabout 2 hours ago
Z.ai is based in China and serves out of Singapore, that's surely why.
teravorabout 6 hours ago
it's an electron app, it highlights wrong spelling but doesn't suggest corrections. how does someone exhibit so much incompetence?
hadlockabout 6 hours ago
Welcome to using v1.0.0 of any product
shayankhabout 6 hours ago
how is this cheaper?
swe_dimaabout 5 hours ago
Is it possible to use their subscription pricing with Opencode?
qaz_plmabout 5 hours ago
I use the coding subscription in both Pi and OpenCode without issue.
dizhnabout 6 hours ago
This comes with a little bit of free credits. (after login)
MarceloHenryabout 3 hours ago
Is there a CLI version of it?
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Nekorosuabout 2 hours ago
How about no? I'd rather use something open source and local. We have enough of 3rd party controlled AI tools.
esafakabout 6 hours ago
I tried it but went back to OC, which feels smarter.

It does have a 1.5x usage promotion for GLM 5.2 on the coding plan so now is a good time to test it...

NamlchakKhandroabout 3 hours ago
For those that want something based on Pi Mono:

- https://igorwarzocha.github.io/howcode/

- https://github.com/ruuxi/stella

- https://www.pi-gui.com/

Not using Pi, but based on PI (no extensions possible)

- https://twotimespi.dev/

7eabout 6 hours ago
GLM-5.2 seems capable. It’s just much slower than Opus.
jedisct1about 4 hours ago
GLM-5.2 is a great model!

But it already works really well with existing harnesses, I'm not sure why a dedicated one is needed?

I use it with https://swival.dev and everything works perfectly, no tool calling issues and it works fine with long sessions.

brcmthrowawayabout 6 hours ago
Telemetry enabled?
sourdecorabout 4 hours ago
The original submission was to [0] which I feel must be mentioned.

[0]: https://zcode.z.ai/cn

dangabout 4 hours ago
You're referring to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48751752, which was the third submission of this. The original submission was in fact to https://zcode.z.ai/en, so I took that one and re-upped it in order to have a place to merge the thread. Seemed fairest!