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#fable#https#don#com#model#pro#openai#gpt#anthropic#tried

Discussion (102 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

andai•about 3 hours ago
For context:

> Additionally, we’re introducing a new ultra mode that goes beyond the capabilities of a single agent by leveraging subagents to accelerate complex work.

https://openai.com/index/previewing-gpt-5-6-sol/

Can someone explain how this compares with Pro? I thought Pro was already something similar.

changoplatanero•about 3 hours ago
For pro mode the agents worked independently and only when they all finished did a new agent take a look at everything to merge the work into a single response. The new thing involves subagents that have been trained to cooperatively pursue a task and are allowed to communicate with each other along the way.
dools•about 3 hours ago
I tried a pro model out the other day and thought there must have been a bug in Pi’s cost calculations. But no, it’s absolutely fucking insane. Wasn’t even any better at the task.
bombcar•about 3 hours ago
I really suspect that the models are basically the same below, it’s all in the prompt. The way I use them, surgically, they seem to perform about the same. Fable certainly hasn’t blow my socks off.
thomasahle•about 3 hours ago
Do you have a source for this, or just rumors?

The responses I get from pro don't feel like ensembles. They are often very one directional.

changoplatanero•about 2 hours ago
This can be because the summary model just picked the output from one of the sub agents.
wahnfrieden•about 2 hours ago
oops
gbnwl•41 minutes ago
How is this any different than what we have already? We've had this ability for ages (6+ months, decades in the AI world), you can literally today easily prompt CC or Codex to use subagents to accomplish tasks and they'll do it well. My entire workflow is one top level orchestrator chat creating tickets to dispatch to subagents to implement, and other subagents to verify. Why is this being sold as a new thing? Have HN users never tried tried asking CC or Codex to use subagents?
UnfitFootprint•36 minutes ago
The top comment on the thread explains this will involve subagent to subagent comms.

To what effect I don’t know… I thought subagents were useful because they were explicitly single purpose and bound to a narrow context

ai_fry_ur_brain•34 minutes ago
Because most people need complexity to be wrapped in a simple UI/UX. Most people just want the one-two button press and be on their way.
ludamad•about 3 hours ago
I imagine this is something like Anthropic's dynamic workflows where a JS file is created to make a little AI harness on the spot
andai•about 2 hours ago
Wow, I hadn't heard of this!

  const audits = await pipeline(found.files, file =>
    agent(`Audit ${file} for missing authentication checks.`, { label: file }),
  )
I asked Claude in the browser if it could do anything like that. It wrote a little frontend app that calls the Anthropic API (with fetch()), without including a key. I expected that to fail, but it worked!

Apparently in the web chat (and also in Claude Code?[0] Though I haven't tried yet) they can call the Anthropic API and your subscription key gets auto-magicked into the requests somehow.

Those are two separate things of course (aside from the key-injection) but I guess there's no reason it couldn't run completely in the front-end... hmm...

[0] https://code.claude.com/docs/en/workflows

jaggederest•about 1 hour ago
I feel like it's not crazy to run Javascript in the browser... We've come so far I almost forgot where it all started.
ilsubyeega•about 2 hours ago
i would believe this will be matched with something like orchestrator-focused model: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48624782
throw394042•about 3 hours ago
I'm working in large US corporation. And I see that I already have access to 5.6-Sol Ultra on my corporate account.

I haven't really used it yet.

2 months ago management was showing us scoreboards, praising leaders who used most tokens. Last few weeks, we're getting weekly emails, telling us that whenever we can - we should use cheaper models, and that we should watch the page which shows our tokens usage.

VeninVidiaVicii•10 minutes ago
I wonder if clues like this will be what are written in history books as the beginning of the bubble bursting.
postalcoder•about 4 hours ago
I wonder if it's related that that OpenAI has found a way to cut inference costs by half, according to The Information.

https://www.theinformation.com/newsletters/ai-agenda/openai-...

layla5alive•about 3 hours ago
https://archive.ph/NEwVz

"However, these inference optimizations, which rival Anthropic refers to as “compute multipliers,” are a big focus for all the labs. Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei has been publicly talking about the concept since at least mid-2023, when he said on a podcast that the company limits “the number of people who are aware of a given compute multiplier” because it could give other AI labs a leg up if they were to be able to replicate them. (Compute multipliers can also refer to efficiency optimizations in the model-training phase.)"

Yes, on a world with finite resources where your industry is singlehandedly siphoning ALL THE RESOURCES - hoard general efficiency optimizations and treat them as trade secrets - winning is all that matters, normal people and other species and the planet be damned.

Everything I hear about Dario these days makes me like him less and less. He sure did seem to speed run the 'tech leader with scruples' to 'tech villain' path! I guess all the cycles are compressing as we approach the singularity..

razodactyl•about 2 hours ago
Not sure I know where I fall regarding your point: Yes to trade secrets, but also science and AI should be for the good of all.

OpenAI seems to be trading roles back with Anthropic becoming misanthropic. I hope they both start heading in the direction of how the AI field was prior to LLMs.

Collaboration and benefit for all should always be the primary motivator.

georgemcbay•about 1 hour ago
> Collaboration and benefit for all should always be the primary motivator.

Of all the things to never happen, this is never going to happen the most.

That train left the station for good once hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars were involved.

On the bright side, in the long run I suspect the vast majority of the value of AI will not be captured by the model making labs and the vast investments in them are going to implode, so...

alightsoul•about 1 hour ago
i really hope it's just what Deepseek V4 does. Deepseek V4 is very cheap and highly performant

OpenAI tried to pull off the same trade secret thing with RL when they announced o1 and o3, aka "Compute time scaling". Then Deepseek revealed it with Deepseek R1.

Could also be something like Deepseek DSpark. Or using diffusion like DiffusionGemma as a draft model. The timing between the release of those, and this article, makes me think its maybe one or both of those things

llelouch•about 2 hours ago
Dario tells the truth. If you look at everything through their safe AGI mission it all makes sense. They are not bs'ing about that. Also I think most people just read headlines or 10 second clips and make false extrapolations from there.

(BTW Anthropic only exists because Sam Altman is a liar, Dario admitted this.)

nmfisher•about 2 hours ago
> If you look at everything through their safe AGI mission it all makes sense.

Except for, you know, all the outside investors and the forthcoming IPO.

bigyabai•about 2 hours ago
> He sure did seem to speed run the 'tech leader with scruples' to 'tech villain' path!

What kind of rosy-eyed chump believes in the "tech leader with scruples" bullshit? It always lies.

Did some people just ignore Mark Zuckerberg and Tim Cook's sociopathy, somehow? Did anyone buy into their "privacy is a human right" nonsense?

lern_too_spel•8 minutes ago
Zuckerberg never had scruples, and everyone knew that from the start.
senordevnyc•about 1 hour ago
I find this kind of cynicism fascinating tbh. On the one hand, it seems so relatable in some ways, because there is something uncomfortable about being seen as naive, in a way that being seen as cynical or negative doesn't seem to carry. I guess it's just self-protective, almost like some kind of perverse Pascal's wager: it's better to think everyone is horrible and be wrong than to think the opposite and be taken advantage of?

The thing I can't quite square is that it doesn't really fit my lived experience. I have known sincere, genuine people in the types of positions that I'm sure someone like you would declare to be sociopathic.

But beyond that, I just don't know why it would actually be true that everyone at the top is a villain. Why couldn't someone like Dario (or even Altman, gasp) be sincere? Because if he is, it does seem like a lot of the moves he's made would make sense given his worldview.

But if you assume he's just a villain, then you can twist any of those moves to just be further evidence of that which you already believe.

I don't know, I just find cynicism interesting, and a little sad.

minimaxir•about 3 hours ago
Semi-related, has anyone noticed their GPT 5.5 usage in Codex being cut in half as of a couple days ago? I got a lot more mileage out of my session usage yesterday for the same workload.
drivebyhooting•about 4 hours ago
What’s the technique? And did they buy it from thinking machines?
turtleyacht•about 3 hours ago
Maybe cache similar answers from others. Surprised if this is not already being done.
wahnfrieden•about 3 hours ago
Like google search, this does not work because of how common long tail use is.

What you think could be a big chunk, is more likely to be a fraction of a percent of queries.

And what use is similar query caching - so you (very often! if actually cost effective, maybe half the time) get a response to a query that was different from yours. Including for when you have a lot of context input already. You’re going to get trash.

If it were constrained to only very common initial prompts, and somehow the long tail did not actually dominate as it does with Google search (can't find the reference at the moment but it was a famous article some years ago), it also wouldn't account for serious enough cost savings. Long context is what is expensive.

This might only work in constrained domains like customer service where there’s tolerance for generic answers and escalation paths. For technical work? For general purpose use, with secretly canned responses charged at full price?

internet2000•about 1 hour ago
Hope this forces Anthropic to be less stingy with Fable.
martin_drapeau•about 3 hours ago
Recently, I've been so eager to get new model releases in Codex. I'm hooked. I hope this accelerates development. Shows how dependant I have become to Codex.
xcjsam•about 1 hour ago
Will it have similar limited access like Fable? It is an interesting timeline, as general access for Fable (without using extra credits) is coming to an end :(
asn0•about 3 hours ago
asn0•34 minutes ago
Here's the correct link, not sure what happened with that first one https://xcancel.com/thsottiaux/status/2073933490513752151
OutOfHere•about 3 hours ago
It doesn't load. It uselessly keeps showing this in a loop:

> This process is automatic. Your browser will redirect to your requested content shortly. Please allow up to 0 second…

kshri24•about 2 hours ago
Remove the #m at end of the link. That's causing the redirect. Here is a cleaner link: https://xcancel.com/haider1/status/2073695124220006575
timcobb•about 3 hours ago
are you, by any chance, a bot?
OutOfHere•about 2 hours ago
Not at all. I was controlling the browser myself as a human, not via any bot.
froggertoaster•about 2 hours ago
The actual X link, since most of us on this platform aren't children:

https://x.com/haider1/status/2073695124220006575#m

lern_too_spel•4 minutes ago
Only children want to read social media threads without logging in?
rolymath•16 minutes ago
You would be surprised to hear that some of us don't have X because we don't use social media, not for any kind of cultural war you're imagining.
brynnbee•about 1 hour ago
I made (repurposed an existing) an extension for firefox to cancel xcancel: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/xcancel-to-x/
timcobb•about 3 hours ago
when will it be available? do we know? I don't have X, not sure if the thread mentions it.
ChrisArchitect•about 3 hours ago
Related:

Previewing GPT‑5.6 Sol: a next-generation model

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48689028

jquery•about 3 hours ago
Will individual subscribers have access?
AussieWog93•about 3 hours ago
I would assume yes - their goal is to capture consumer subscribers. Claude are going to take Fable away, and they're going to swoop in and give it to us.
kirubakaran•about 3 hours ago
This is why I don't think Fable will be taken away. Not for long anyway.
llelouch•about 2 hours ago
Still avialable through the API. According to people that have tried both Fable nad 5.6, Fable is clearly better at coding. So i expect a lot of people to pay extra for it.
ashraymalhotra•about 3 hours ago
I love how competition is great for customers!
tw1984•about 1 hour ago
they better get that out fast, it will become totally meaningless when the next GLM gets there first.

more competition is always good for consumers.

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behnamoh•about 3 hours ago
I still don't know why OpenAI doesn't put gpt-5.5-pro in Codex. It's one hell of a model and easily parallels Fable/Mythos. Sure, it'll use up your quota much faster but that's the price some users are willing to pay for absolutely high quality responses.

I think gpt-5.5-pro runs 12x parallel gpt-5.5 agents behind the scene and uses OpenAI's secret sauce to synthesize their answers into one insanely good response.

SwellJoe•about 2 hours ago
API pricing ends up being something like 20x more expensive for GPT 5.5 Pro than GPT 5.5 for actual work, even though the token cost is "only" 6x. On benchmarks where I've run both, I saw $1.12 mean per task with 5.5 and nearly $23 per task with 5.5 Pro, I guess it chews longer and harder on the problem.

If that's at all reflective of what it costs them to run it, I imagine they're in the same boat as Anthropic with Fable; they probably can't afford to offer it at subscription prices given current cost to operate it.

If 5.6 Sol Ultra has efficiency improvements (at one or more layers), and it allows OpenAI to offer a model that's competitive with Fable on the subscription plans, I'll guess a lot of folks will switch.

Fable is notably better than what came before. I watched it figure out stuff on its own over and over, on extremely hard problems, that I previously needed to guide a model to an understanding about, or work with them back and forth for several turns to figure it out together. Like, I've been reverse engineering a hardware device lately, and I've tried to tackle it a few times in the past with both some version of GPT and a couple of versions of Opus (most recently 4.7). In all cases, I barely made progress...would have gotten there eventually, probably, as I'm stubborn, but there were roadblocks constantly, with me and the models getting stumped and going around in circles in the end on every prior attempts.

Fable figured out other ways to find out what's happening, it dug into config files, found and extracted Boost-serialized data, compared that data to the observed behavior, built tools to compare the observed data with our emulated behavior, without being prompted. Would I have gotten there? Eventually, maybe. All prior models didn't; they mostly just tried the things I suggested and stopped at "well, that didn't work" or declared success after seeing results that matched their misunderstanding of the problem. I guess it's possible my prior attempts with other models had "loosened the lid" on the problem; we did already have a long list of documented "this didn't work" and a pile of tools for finding out if something worked. But, even so, I was impressed.

There probably will still be a "OK, let's rewrite this so it's not using lookup tables to precisely simulate the hardware behavior in software, because we don't need the noise, too" stage of the process...but, in one day with Fable, it solved a problem that I'd banged on for at least a week or too in the past with very little real progress. I don't think the models write exceedingly good code, even the best ones, but it sure does figure shit out quick.

agentifysh•37 minutes ago
many of us and myself have been using chatgpt pro from codex cli for months now

https://github.com/agentify-sh/desktop

shusaku•about 2 hours ago
I recently have been testing ChatGPT business at work and the quota seems to disappear almost instantly even using weaker models. Unless they dramatically increase their quotas it’ll be unusable.
sissijwnsjjss•18 minutes ago
My solution for the ones stuck with that: use 5.5 for planning and 5.3-mini for the grunt work. 5.3 is remarkably useful still but you need to hold its hand.
trollbridge•about 2 hours ago
I don’t know how anyone can realistically use the “business” plans - you blow through your quota so quickly. I use a consumer Pro account ($100 a month) and don’t hit the usage limits nearly as quickly. 5.5 Pro is so slow that it’s not a big deal to paste big prompts into it and come back and check on it an hour later.
aetherspawn•about 3 hours ago
Is it as good as Fable..? Fable is the first model that mostly writes without the AI slop format for me, and so I can comfortably actually copy and paste most of what it spits out.

OpenAI models have always been the worst in my experience for verbose, slop formatted responses, with each generation increasing in sloppiness.

behnamoh•about 3 hours ago
> Fable is the first model that mostly writes without the AI slop format for me

I'm not that impressed by Fable's writing to be honest, still has the AI giveaways like em dash.

hn_user2•about 3 hours ago
Humans use em dash as well.

I hate that I have had to remove it from my writing style because people assume it’s AI generated. But I think that ship has sailed. I’ll have to do without now.

dionian•about 3 hours ago
i cant reply to hn_user2, but i have the same experience, i find myself never using emdash where i would have before
lawgimenez•about 3 hours ago
No Twitter, what’s he responding to?
Cider9986•about 3 hours ago
Check out LibRedirect or Predirect (MV3), it automatically redirects youtube, X, etc links to privacy-respecting frontends.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44344246

107 comments, 1 year ago.

jvdsf•about 2 hours ago
Who cares
bagol•about 1 hour ago
You.
brcmthrowaway•about 3 hours ago
Gamechanger..
jvdsf•about 2 hours ago
who cares
minimaxir•about 2 hours ago
Given that it is #1 on the front page now, people most definitely care.

Also, from the Guidelines:

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

villgax•about 2 hours ago
All these names mean squat