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#korean#leverage#real#estate#leveraged#funds#seoul#market#korea#stocks
Discussion Sentiment
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Discussion (48 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
Add to that, stock gains in Korea are often used to finance housing purchases (or real estate investment) so many retail investors are scared of being "locked out" of housing (which is a requisite status symbol for dating or marriage) if they're not making the same capital gains others are.
Currently Korean social media is full of stories of leveraged day traders who've gotten rich the past year, HBM employees who've made bonuses worth decades of salary (e.g. memes of Samsung employees in luxury cars), etc. Lots of comments along the lines of "everyone is getting rich except me". It's all reminiscent of the crypto frenzy in the US a few years ago but way more intense and concentrated.
I get that culture is hard to change, but it still seems easier than changing the economics. There are men and women out there who presumably are interested in partnering up; at some point you'd think biology will take over irrespective of which achievements have been unlocked. What's stopping them?
no it's very possible because in an aging country people relocate to a handful of cities. 50% of South Korea's population now lives in the Seoul metropolitan area. The real estate that's getting cheaper is the one decaying in the countryside.
It's like saying Russia can't have expensive real estate because the country is big, what matters is where people are actually moving.
And for many, if the property is not within 10km of the Sydney or Melbourne city centre, it might as well be in the dusty Outback desert.
The turn towards financial nihilism will continue.
Laboring in a capitalist economy is a loser's strategy because your capital is you body's ability to produce value and that has a maximum physical limit. Why participate in an economy using a strategy that has a natural upper bound? It makes no sense. You're not even playing the game poorly - you're not playing the game at all.
Kind of like pathological gambling: Sure, some people are susceptible, but there's also an entire industry around finding them and making them succumb.
In Germany the consensus is MSCI World or FTSE All-World ETFs.
I believe in the US most advice goes to VTSAX (US Total Market), VOO (S&P500) and maybe QQQ (NASDAQ100) which means only US stocks.
What gets recommended in other countries?
e.g. Fidelity's fund for people planning to retire around 2050 https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/summary/31579...
(Which is not to imply that these are smart men).
Leveraged funds are the safest way for the average investor to get access to leverage because unlike margin there is no risk of margin calls, and your money generally won't go to zero unlike options which are vastly more complicated and can expire.
The reality is that using leveraged funds (or any leverage) is a completely rational move because the average person will never retire wealthy unless they're already making a tech salary or similar.
Investing has always been gambling, even Warren Buffet made his biggest early wins on all-in bets.
I... do not agree that leveraged funds are somehow a safest way to access leverage.
Every product including leverage has inherently a non-linear P&L. And from my experience, non sophisticated investors always struggle to grasp the implications of that. It makes returns (on capital) very path dependent, and very nasty during volatile regimes. It breaks the naive assumption of "well I could always hold and wait for the dust to settle".
> unlike margin there is no risk of margin calls
This is a bit of a weird statement. Leverage implies margin, you cannot make it disappear, the funding and associated risk has to come from somewhere, it's just that it is continuously applied, instead of fixed timings.
I do agree that it simplifies planning and reserve management though.
> even Warren Buffet made his biggest early wins on all-in bets.
This is a bit disingenious, note that Buffet did not use leverage...
And just because it's available doesn't mean it should be your only ETF/ETP. Not a recommendation or advice, but something like 50% TQQQ, and 50% risk-off asset (gold, bonds, whatever); rebalanced regularly isn't crazy, and might even have alpha.
https://www.reutersconnect.com/item/south-korean-retail-inve...
But it seems there's still a lot in their FA phase in the FAFO cycle.
Realistically, it's nearly impossible for high income young people in their 20s and 30s to buy a house in Seoul. That forces them to move to the provinces, but then there's almost no infrastructure. No companies either.
So many people turn to leverage in hopes of a life changing reversal.
The recent rise in the KOSPI index happened because some of the loopholes that Korean conglomerates used to make inheritance easier were blocked by revisions to the Commercial Act. One of the uncertainties that had been called 'Korean risk' was removed, and the market went up.
For a Korean man, the moment you leave Seoul, not just the outskirts, but out of Seoul entirely, there's no one to talk to about IT jobs. I live outside Seoul, and the infrastructure gap is about 10 to 20 years behind. On top of that, there are no IT companies, just mostly low income manual labor jobs.
The median monthly income for Korean men is about 3 million KRW, while the average Seoul apartment price is 1.3 billion KRW and the median price is 997 million KRW. That means you'd need to work for about 25~30 years just to buy a home, but job tenure is getting shorter, so that's not realistic.
So people gamble on leverage, hoping for a life changing win. Everyone around me knows it's gambling, but they figure they're already in a dead end situation anyway, so they have nothing to lose.
I live and work in IT outside Seoul, but the IT business has already matured, and there are many well established companies. The Korean market itself is small, so early movers have already taken the lead. There's no room for latecomers like me. That's why I take on work from the West, China, and Japan regardless, but even that's hard without a reputation.
The moment you leave Seoul, a Korean's chances of success drop to nearly zero. That's why people cling to the city so desperately.
And honestly, I've hardly gambled on my life. But I'm drowning in debt, and sometimes I feel like a fool for working so hard.
Also you might painting too wide a brush with “the West”. I wouldn’t assume that Americans and, say, Austrians have similar exposure to public markets.
That said, there's no question that US households have grown fat on the massive expansion of the tech giants. A one trillion $ market cap was shocking not long ago, now you've got Apple and Nvidia at $4-$5 trillion, each about as valuable as China's top 25-30 stocks combined. The US wealth base is highly exposed to a PE multiple compression event, which is likely whenever the bubbly valuations centered around the AI boom reduce.
Also to put a reference figure on it, China's top 500 stocks are roughly worth $11.5 trillion. Nvidia + Apple are worth a combined ~$9.6 trillion.
If China decides to take over Taiwan and nationalises TMSC, redirecting their top tier silicon to 100% Chinese companies then what are the American firms worth?
That is what Jane Street (IIRC) was accused of. Some of its traders then went to another hedge fund and did the same trick there, reducing Jane Street's profit, and ended up being sued by Jane Street. (BTW, Jane Street claims it was not manipulation, but basis trade arbitrage.)
Of course, 9 out of 10 gambler end up in the red.