Saying No

I thought this article was supposed to be about negotiating, but this person doesn't want to listen to or negotiate with anyone.

The closest they came to negotiation was when they were doing yoga alone in one room and "decided" to allow a dozen other people in a different room to turn their A/C on.

> On these days, I've told them to turn the AC off until we're done. One day, I was the only one practicing and I had to tell this to a dozen people outside the room. I will never forget the bugged looks I got back. Eventually their leader spoke up and we decided that they can turn on the AC further away from the room.

Then when the other tenants finally get sick of this, they get the owner on the phone. This is the negotiating opportunity. Instead, this person gloats about not listening:

> The man on the other end introduced himself as some authority figure and told me to turn the AC back on. He listed some vague reasons, compressor this, compressor that, costs, etc... which I didn't care to understand. But then he asked me in an accusing tone, why I turned it off despite the note saying not to. Peter Block would find this question childish. After all, two adults should be able to ask each other for what they want. They should expect a possible answer to be 'No' and be prepared to negotiate the difference.

I think they forgot to consider that the other person can also say "no". This is the climax of the negotiation opportunity, and he uses it to tell off the manager:

> After some filler words, he said he will talk to the owner terminating the contract and giving a refund. I said great and hung up.

The intense worship for Peter Block throughout the post is a strange contrast to the way they fail to implement any part of the advice other than the "No" part.

There was no negotiation here. Just a strange pyrrhic victory.

This is poorly written with an unclear outcome. This starts as talking about how to make 1:1s more productive. It ends with, I must presume though it is unclear, losing a lease with no backup. This is not more productive.

Compromise is about figuring out how to give everybody what they want while letting go of how it happens. Turning on half the ACs is a great compromise. Whatever happened at the end is not.

To be generous to the author though, I can see how standing up for yourself in this way would feel revolutionary to someone who has never pushed back in their life. Just know this is the first step on a much longer journey. The next step is figuring out what the compromise would have been with the authority figure on the phone.

I remember an executive who was like this person. They had a private office and it was a little cold so they brought in a space heater. That sent the thermostat off, suddenly the whole office became ice cold. He would not listen to anyone’s else pleas because his comfort was more important. People from building maintenance would put up signs and he would rip them down. Some people’s idea of negotiating is just forcing peoples hand until they have no choice but to terminate the relationship. We were also kicked out of the building.

So at the beginning of the story you started with a rented space you and others practice yoga, and the end result is that you lost your practice room, without gaining anything else other then… slightly more confidence?

Is there supposed to be a teaching in here?

> He listed some vague reasons, compressor this, compressor that, costs, etc... which I didn't care to understand.

wouldn't part of an "adult-to-adult conversation" also be to try and listen to the other, if nothing else than to understand their arguments?

> After some filler words, he said he will talk to the owner terminating the contract and giving a refund. I said great and hung up.

If that's what OP understands as "negotiating the difference" then ok, I guess...

It feels to me as if the author got it backwards - in turning the AC back on, they didn’t „say no“ - the person who put up the note has „said no“ in the first place (to the practice of turning the ACs off) and the author was ignoring this clearly visible outlined boundary that other person has drawn.

Don’t get me wrong, the note itself wasn’t great either, but ignoring it wasn’t some great sign of „saying no“ - it was needlessly escalating a conflict instead of trying to resolve it.

I felt zero sympathy after the author decided to ignore any possible valid reasoning under the cemented position of 'well I pay rent' -- that's not maturity.

Further more, my rule: the more someone tells you how mature their position is and how child like you're being the more the odds increase that the only problem is that your opponent doesn't have a mirror or an ounce of introspection.

Find a temperature that both sides can accept. Also, the dozen other people affected by the air conditioning? Do they pay rent too?

This feels like a story from someone who just crossed the threshold into adulthood and thinks that makes him the "dad" now.

Apparently, the French typically start with "no" because it leaves them room to say "yes" later, which is harder to go back on.

> “Answering ‘non’ gives you the option to say ‘oui’ [yes] later; [it’s] the opposite when you say ‘oui’, you can no longer say ‘non’!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/travel/article/20190804-why-the-french...

I'd say accepting "No" as an answer, is more important.

If someone says "No" to me, and it's something that I really, really want, then negotiations can begin. If the other party is impervious to compromise, then it's incumbent upon me to either "live with it," or "flee the scene" (or call Vinnie and Bugsy, to do some negotiating for me).

My experience -especially these days- is that people see "No" as either a personal affront, or to be discounted and ignored, because it isn't what they want to hear.

"No." is a complete sentence. I don't owe anyone an explanation (unless we start negotiating). I need to accept that, from others.

Saying no without attempting to negotiate first also comes off as childish, and affects the outcome of future negotiations because it demonstrates an unwillingness to compromise.

>>> Peter Block's quote is a great reminder that between two adults, saying 'No' is always an option and not something to feel weird or anxious about. So next time you're being ask to do something, pause, and consider saying 'No' more than you normally would. The other party should expect this. And you both should be prepared to negotiate.

Not negotiating is also an option, and not something to feel weird or anxious about.

Worst case scenario. Against my best instincts, I opened my door to a salesman. He wanted to sell me new Internet service. I said No. He asked why. I thanked him for his time and closed the door. He's a trained hustler, and I'm a terrible negotiator. Nothing good would ever come of negotiating with him. I can make a perfectly good estimate of the probability of us finding a mutually acceptable middle ground... zero.

People will constantly ask you for things that are not in your best interest at all. They're betting on a chance that you will feel obligated to give them something. They can learn that sometimes people will say No without giving a satisfactory reason. They have probably already learned it.

Sounds like you're being highly unreasonable and childish to me

Its never a simple thing to say no, it does comes down the personality for sure, however what matters is

1. Who are you saying NO to - Ideally what you are saying NO to should have mattered more however in real world incentives and repercussions matter a lot

2. How are you saying NO - Even if one saying a direct NO the tone matters, other times there are ways where you can add precursor conditions (which make it a automatic NO) or you put it on the backlog way too far down that it never gets a real chance to be acted upon.

Putting it on the backlog is the corporate style of saying no without saying NO. Smart people just avoid getting into backlog and just truncate it if its been in the backlog for way too long.

Well, was the contract terminated?

Saying no will sometimes have consequences, and the counterpart is sometimes unreasonable.

This person learned half the framework, then refused to listen when the adult on the other side of the phone explained their reasons for having to have the A/C on, then wants ... what? for demonstrating their misunderstanding?

> He listed some vague reasons, compressor this, compressor that, costs, etc... which I didn't care to understand.

> two adults should be able to ask each other for what they want

... Which they would be able to do if you actually listened to the guy instead of dismissing him as someone you didn't understand?

I did not really get the point. Apart that you should terminate dealings with unreasonable people. Like the other party did here. Just saying no to unreasonable people like the writer is best option. Even if you then need to negotiate for refund.

That quote reminds me a bit of the Non-violent Communication book.

This post belongs on LinkedIn

Well you got told No, did it anyway and lost the room. Not sure you understood the negotiation part.

I think this is somewhere in the middle east - Dubai likely - and it is hot there. It is quite predictable that there would be mass opposition with institutional support against turning off air conditioning in a common space, despite having a couple of hours of exclusive rental. That said, it is a good reminder that we have a choice in what we are willing to accept, and can fall back on a BATNA, even if it is not the most ideal outcome.

(off topic, but cool domain name)

Are you based in UAE by any chance?

I am sorry but what was the point of this story?

> There are two ACs on the second floor which we keep turned off because the cool air prevents natural sweating and muscles from loosening.

Why do so many supposedly educated people from developed countries have completely pseudoscientific beliefs about A/C?

It’s so bizarre and frankly, embarrassing to even read. You will sweat exactly the same as you would at 30% RH at 72 degrees on a cool day outdoors. There’s nothing mystical about the air conditioner at work here.

Oh. Mixed feelings on this. Good quote, and etc. but there is something about this I can’t resonate with. The… “ask permission”ness of it all.

I actually liked the story, despite some valid negative comments here.

"AC on" crowd usually have no consideration for anyone and rarely understands that while air flow matters, the temperature doesn't have to be freezing.

"Don't do it" note have as much validity as "Nah, I will" reaction. The fact that conversation happened is a win, and it's fine, that the problem wasn't solved in the best possible way, it isn't lingering anymore, so that's a better outcome that nothing.