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Analyzed from 1140 words in the discussion.
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#model#agent#code#claude#vibe#more#agents#cursor#chatgpt#cli
Discussion Sentiment
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Discussion (22 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
IMO, if there's a ubiquitous term that is unambiguous, use it (harness, model). If there's an ambiguous term you have to explain, try not to use it. Language is for communication.
A useful extension to this mental framework that i use when trying to make this distinction is the application (cursor) -> which sometimes includes an orchestrator and all of the QOL stuff like resuming, checkpointing, etc. single or multiple agents (cursor agents)-> and runs a single or many agent instances (single agent in cursor)-> service api-> model.
This is to address a confusion i often see with agent being conflated with the application that we use agents in, rather than the distinction in the article which tries to unpick agent-model confusion.
In the table "Real world examples";
"Claude Desktop" houses three harnesses at the moment; Claude, Claude Cowork, and Claude Code.
"Claude CLI", I presume, is referring to Claude Code CLI. This is distinct from the 'ant CLI', which is sometimes referred to as 'Claude CLI'.
"Cursor" could be any of them- but, 'Cursor Agents', 'Cursor Cloud Agents', 'Cursor CLI', and whatever the vscode fork is called now, are distinct. Maybe not in the context of this blog post, but it isnt specified which is being referred to in the example table.
"ChatGPT" sounds like the chatgpt web interface. OpenAI's desktop app is named 'ChatGPT Desktop', and now houses 'ChatGPT work' and 'Codex' (Codex Desktop, not the TUI, though it does essentially wrap the tui and give it capabilities through app-built-in tools). I believe the ChatGPT web interface's harness can change a bit, depending on settings + subscription level (remote sandboxes, etc.) Additionally, there is a distinction in available models depending on which "ChatGPT" product is being used (instant/live/etc non-5.6 luna/terra/sol suite).
Inference service is more accurately 'default inference provider'.
Also, this post has an ai-generated smell.
* Write: Use FluidVoice to get all the text down in my own voice
* Edit: Ask ChatGPT etc to criticise the article
* Cleanup: Grammarly
* Publish: Good old GitHub Pages
Why "layers"? The constituents of a Multi-agent System (MAS) [1] are called "agents". BTW: Synecdochical semantic diffusion is not uncommon in software engineering
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-agent_system
My take on the post is for engineering disciple where JoeJag wants to create a common word while tackling "Agent" issues.
I like Joe's approach as this disambiguates during troubleshooting without trying to figure out under which "context" other engineers are using Agent vs. Models.
You get lost in context just like AIs do without such disambiguation.
Secondly the confusion is designed to benefit the bull** by using ambiguous language they can do as humpty dumpty did in Alice in Wonderland and say "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean. Neither more nor less" Which benefits whatever they are pushing.
Beware those that attempt to muddle language and avoid precision in speaking.
Often with posts like this I imagine someone had their own confusion and then somehow projected it on everyone else. Like Trump thinking people didn't know about the word groceries or that dumb ends with a b.
Author is a senior staff engineer. A big part of his job is to help more junior engineers and non-technical decision makers understand basics. Not every stakeholder with resources reads HN under a pseudo name "llm_nerd" :)
And to be fair to those juniors and less-technical folks: there were papers in prominent ML conferences up to like 2024-2025 that were consistently comparing proprietary model end-points to open weight models as an apples-apples comparison until very recently, and long after it was obvious that prop model providers were doing "stuff" behind the endpoint, which was obvious by fall 2021). Most of those papers did not put in the legwork to figure out if/when that "stuff" was happening, or what the "stuff" probably was, or even give a caveat.
Not exactly the same thing as conflating agent with model, but definitely 100% conflating "model+software" with "model", which is at the end of the day basically the same confusion.
> I often hear people use the words agent and model interchangeably
_what_ people. Would I hear one of my colleagues do this, I'll slap them across the face. With a 4 pounds salmon. Alive.
> to help us have more precise conversations.
What problem are you trying to solve. _Why_ you need more precise conversations. I mean, I understand what you aiming at. But is it really worth it to go nitpicking at people's mental models, is the gain worth it?
Eric from alignment and research at OpenAI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87DyyMV0kCY
It honestly bothers me so much when he says "This new model has access to x". No, the harness you allowed it use at runtime has access to x.
No idea what the underlying model is for any of this. More over, I don't ever vibe code, I check and understand the code that is generated by my LLMs. And yet, I use Vibe Code (the product) all day.
Lost the thread yet? I did... Tbh, it also took some time between Anthropic starting the push towards Claude Code and me understanding what is really was. Using terms interchangeably during this time of discovery is absolutely maddening. For Mistral it comes on top of their rename of services from "le Chat" and Mistral Code (still in parts of the UI) to Vibe and Vibe (for) Code.
> When you can name the layer, you can fix the layer. That is the whole point of being precise. It is not about being pedantic. It is about being able to improve things faster and more effectively.
Also, for any given fact, tons of people aren't aware. Anything you already know is news to a sizeable number of people.
Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1053/
> Also, for any given fact, tons of people aren't aware.
Double points for Gryffindor.