Back to News
Advertisement
Advertisement

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

70% Positive

Analyzed from 1716 words in the discussion.

Trending Topics

#wifi#smart#device#internet#data#tvs#hotspot#xfinity#connect#more

Discussion (36 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

radicaldreamerabout 1 hour ago
It's not a matter of "cheap", even the high end Sony TVs have spyware on them by default. The best thing you can do is get Claude or Codex to adb into your TV and uninstall all the malware, then keep it disconnected from Wifi and use an external box like Apple TV to watch.

Just disconnecting from Wifi often doesn't work because the TV will connect to insecure wifi to upload data and fingerprint what you're watching and who you are.

qlte32 minutes ago

  > Just disconnecting from Wifi often doesn't work because the TV will connect to insecure wifi to upload data
Is there any evidence of this actually happening? It's oft stated yet I've never seen any proof or specific models where this has been observed.

It made more sense when I first heard this theorized back in the early 2010s when smart TVs were becoming more common and unsecured WiFi hadn't vanished completely yet. Now it would be way more logical to include a cheap 5g radio, which has also been alleged but I haven't seen any model shown to include one.

roscasabout 2 hours ago
Wise words "Never give ANY smart device internet.".

That is just stupid to give internet access to a "smart" tv or a "smart" phone. You have zero control over it.

skizmabout 2 hours ago
It sucks being in an apartment complex because there are always a bunch of unsecured networks floating around that the TV, or whatever, can connect to even if you don't manually do it.
dylan604about 1 hour ago
Would using an older wifi router that you have lying around as a anti-smart device network work? Fire it up with no WAN signal. It's just a radio broadcasting an SSID that you can connect a device to. Are the "smart" devices smart enough to know there is no WAN signal and keep searching for a different connection, or will it be tricked into not being able to connect to the internet?
drnick1about 1 hour ago
One option is to physically remove the WiFi card. I saw an article about this a while back, and it was a surprisingly simple mod.

On a related note, you should absolutely remove the cellular modem from your car as well.

eldaisfish21 minutes ago
removing the cellular modem from a car can have several unintended consequences.

The geniuses at hyundai refuse to let you operate the heating in some of their electric cars without an internet connection. Yes, you read that right - the only way to operate the HVAC compressor in several hyundai EVs is via their stupid app and the internet. I found out the hard way when i kept noticing that my hyundai EV was not heating the cabin in winter even though i turned the HAVC on. Turns out, as soon as you plug into the wall outlet, the compressor stops.

There is no technical reason for this, other than enshittification.

fussloabout 1 hour ago
Back when I first started my career, I generally disagreed. My first job was at a connected device startup in the IoT space. The whole ethos around data was pretty good. Maybe it was because the tech side of the company I worked for was 99% ex-gov contractors (aerospace, low level routers, submarines...).

We collected such minimal information. Basically only enough to allow for OTAs, functionality, and debugging. Thinking back, we could've collected so much more.

I remember when Alexa hit the market and we (as a company) thought there's NO WAY amazon was making any money on them.

Today... NO WAY. Along the way the value stopped being "This product is priced so we can make a profit" and became "The data we collect is more valuable than the sale".

blitzarabout 2 hours ago
"Never give ANY dumb device internet"

The smart here really isnt the issue.

____tom____about 2 hours ago
They are likely going to have access. Lots of things have built in cellular modems these days, and your cable provider already uses your cable modem as a hotspot for other people.

You can do things like physically modifying your TV, or seeing if there are undocumented settings to disable things.

alexfoo30 minutes ago
It works both ways though.

The traffic was separated so that anything on the public hotspot was not attributed to the private subscriber network.

Secondly for years I lived somewhere very remote so that meant that hardly anyone ever got to use my broadband connection via such a hotspot, but I got to use hundreds of other peoples hotspots when I was somewhere less isolated.

I was quite happy to opt in to this system as I benefitted hugely from it.

majorchord36 minutes ago
> hotspot for other people.

How does this work legally when you get in trouble for someone else's activity?

drnick1about 1 hour ago
> your cable provider already uses your cable modem as a hotspot for other people.

Is this for real? This does not affect me as I use my own equipment, but I still find it hard to believe.

WalterGRabout 1 hour ago
Yes. Xfinity is the big one. Their devices create two hotspots: one for the customer and one to power their Xfinity WiFi service and for bandwidth offloading for their cellular service.

Instructions for disabling it: https://www.xfinity.com/support/articles/disable-xfinity-wif...

Terr_about 1 hour ago
akiselevabout 1 hour ago
Major ISPs in the US have been doing it for at least a decade. Xfinity Wifi [1] claims over 20 million wifi hotspots provided through customer routers.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xfinity#Xfinity_WiFi

ButlerianJihadabout 1 hour ago
Yes. Cox has been doing it for years. They boast citywide hotspot access for all subscribers. I formerly thought that this hotspot network consisted of dedicated APs which they mount and maintain on utility poles in public places. But that’s just the start.

Every Cox customer has a Panoramic WiFi router that advertises as a member of the “CoxWiFi” SSID, and other customers can authenticate there and access the Internet through your connection. This is on a strictly opt-out basis.

I’ve opted-out, and also my router is permanently in Bridge Mode, so there is no technical way for me to provide anyone a WiFi connection. But all my neighbors do, even if they are blissfully unaware.

margalabargalaabout 1 hour ago
It's also usually not that hard to open the case and remove the physical antennas.
Ancalagonabout 1 hour ago
Is that why the cable companies are always trying to get me to use their equipment now?? God I hate this.
Barbing35 minutes ago
Plus the DNS spying even after disabling their safety stuff (impossible to change DNS on Comcast Xfinity-provided gateway). Still trying to get as good speeds with my own equipment.
afarah1about 1 hour ago
Well, nowadays the purpose of a TV is usually to watch content over the internet, so I wouldn't call it "stupid" to connect the TV to the internet.

You might say it's naive, but is it really naive to buy a TV and expect it to be a device to display audiovisual content and not a spyware/adware machine?

I feel like it's not the user's behavior that should be put into question here, but the borderline criminal behavior of the manufacturer.

groby_babout 1 hour ago
Except... some of us like to stream content on TVs. And some of us really don't like the idea of maintaining yet another extra piece of hardware for that.

And so your TV does need Internet access.

The same holds for many other devices, in different shapes. Sure, you can opt out of civilization completely to avoid all the side effects of late stage capitalism, but maybe it's worth applying a bit more nuanced thinking to find a balance that doesn't throw you back to the 1800s. (Unless you like the 1800s, in which case, enjoy)

thwartedabout 1 hour ago
If the TV only plugged into the wall for electricity and showed the video that was fed into it via one of its inputs, does that TV qualify as "yet another extra piece of hardware that needs to be maintained"? The only reason it needs "maintenance" is because it does all this extra "smart" stuff. A separate device that has the "smarts" and treats the TV as a bare monitor screen would still be only one device to "maintain".
drnick1about 1 hour ago
> Except... some of us like to stream content on TVs.

Linux mini-PC running Bigscreen Plasma. No, it can't be used to stream Netflix at native resolution because of DRM. But if you can't live without Netflix content, you can use alternative sources and save money in the process. VacuumTube for YT instead of the official app.

Yes, this is an additional device, but it is not unlike a streaming stick or Android shitbox.

Arubisabout 2 hours ago
A periodic reminder that you can buy a TV that's not smart. It won't be the fancy Samsung wall-art one and it won't be the absolute shiniest display tech out there, but it will be good enough, it'll be dirt cheap, and it won't have a network port or an 802.11 radio.

[Sceptre](https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm...)'s 4K series is sold at Wal-Mart, often for under half the web-listed prices. I’ve bought a few at the 42” scale for like $180 shipped. They’re fine and they’re incapable of all the spyware bullshit.

AvAn12about 1 hour ago
Yep! Our family is on our second one. First was 42” and lasted five years. Current one is 55” and is going on seven years. Both were around $200-250. Picture quality is great for us. Apple TV takes care of streaming. And easy connection to our stereo gives great audio. Cheers!
alexfoo38 minutes ago
A bit into tinfoilhat territory but just because they don't advertise that they have an 802.11 radio doesn't mean the devices can't have one. Or an LTE/4G/5G radio.

If the user data is worth that much then I wouldn't be surprised if some manufacturers put such radios in their non-smart TVs in order to try and gather such data.

I live in a densely populated part of a large UK city and (checks `nmcli dev wifi list`) there are 14 distinct wireless networks near me that aren't mine. There's a good chance that any IOT device could find something nearby, and there's even a whole load of LoRa nodes that it could use for a very slow uplink.

hughw29 minutes ago
I think they'd have to have some FCC boilerplate on the outside if the device had a radio?

[edit: or whatever UK FCC would be]

nobody4216 minutes ago
Problem is, smart devices are heavily subsidized in an expectation for future profit from data collection.
gigel82about 1 hour ago
Let me know when they (or anyone else) comes out with an oled model.
reaperducerabout 1 hour ago
I did a quick search on my local electronics store's web site, and there are several options.

I don't know where you are, so I can't say what availability is like there. But it's worth doing a basic search.

gigel8236 minutes ago
What search terms did you use? I'm in the US, can't find anything with an oled panel that's not a smart tv or a computer monitor.
a1oabout 1 hour ago
Interesting, I knew about these EDID devices to use to pair with KVM for a slightly better experience, but never thought about their use on this perspective!
fg137about 1 hour ago
> Amid the overall electronics boom thanks to A.I.

What is it talking about? What boom?

Terr_about 1 hour ago
Moreover, how could any past and positive "electronics boom" be attributed to "AI"?

If anything it's the opposite, as memory components become obscenely expensive.

tripleeeabout 1 hour ago
maybe they mean the price inflation
gruezabout 1 hour ago
AFAIK TVs and monitors were relatively unaffected.
monocasaabout 1 hour ago
If anything, they've seemed to have gotten cheaper.
tripleeeabout 1 hour ago
yeah I'm just attempting an interpretation, not fact checking haha
Dfiesl34 minutes ago
I guess theyre talking about all the electronics being used to populate the various data centre's popping up about the place. The GPUs, RAM and what not
dparkabout 2 hours ago
This is an exhausting read. From the diminishing use of the word “rape” to the steam of conscious delivery to the blogspam cliches of hyperbole and exclamation.

The malware installed by LG on Microsoft PCs and the spying by smart TVs are both despicable. But I couldn’t get through this article.

spockzabout 2 hours ago
I find it so incredibly short sighted to implement such shenanigans. I was set to buy a LG 39GX950B as an upgrade to my current ultrawide until I read that they will automatically install an installer that will ask whether you want to install additional tools every freaking time you plug in the monitor. Absurd.
Terr_about 1 hour ago
> short sighted to implement such shenanigans

Even if they were convenient shenanigans, in the longer term:

Political action > Purchasing Choices > Individual modifications

majorchord32 minutes ago
The author's "Artwork" page might explain a few things.
ebtebtabout 1 hour ago
Agreed.

A non-cohesive angry rant

ImPostingOnHN43 minutes ago
Yeah, I didn't get this part:

> Hah! I don't have to worry about this! I got Linux! For now.. That's true. But EDID transmission still happens

EDID transmission is how monitors communicate their specs to the computer, how is that an issue?

In fact, EDID transmission is one of the reasons you can plug a monitor into your computer and have it "just work", without needing to install additional proprietary drivers (why do this?)

> But what stops LG from convincing the Ubuntu maintainers to make an LG variant of their supposed driver to magically appear in your snap or apt package repository? You hope to God they don't, but the danger is always there.

So the whole argument there is that yes, it is safe, but there exists a nonzero possibility that it won't be in the future? Couldn't the author have just written "this is not an issue on linux" and saved paragraphs of breathless purple prose?