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Discussion (69 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

MomsAVoxell•about 2 hours ago
Just took a train ride from Vienna to Budapest for a few days, and couldn’t help but notice how very, very dry everything is .. as an Australian living in Europe for a few decades now, I’ve always been intrigued by just how green everything is, literally something growing in every single crack in the pavement, or endless rolling green fields of prosperity during spring - whereas, where I’m from its year-long spinifex and grass shrubs and wattles with the occasional bush flower bloom, barely hanging on out in the desert, mostly reds and blacks and greys, not much green - so the vibrancy of European fields and the abundant diversity of countryside flora have always been pleasant to my eyes ..

During this trip, I was kind of shocked that things felt a bit more Australian to my eyes .. the grasses are dry and barren, the beautiful city parks of both Budapest and Vienna dustier than usual, the Danube water level definitely noticeably lower than I remember ever seeing.

I’ve long been encouraging my European friends to not take the abundance of growth for granted, and now we see it in the environment, plain and clear: the worlds’ weather is changing.

A week of sweltering heat is predicted for us again in Vienna, and as we get started on September and then October so close, two thoughts are on my mind: use this opportunity to go for more dips in the Danube, and .. I wonder what the floods of late-autumn will bring, because .. inevitably .. this super dry summer means there will be heavier rains in October. Might be we look back in a month or two and wish we had this dry heat back again, who knows ..

Either way, neither city is particularly comfortable in the heat. A hundred or so years ago, the heat retention was a feature. Now it’s a bug.

jamonserrano•14 minutes ago
As far as I remember, here in Budapest - apart from a handful of quick showers - it rained exactly once all summer, and altogether about four times since the end of winter. The city is estimated to lose a third of its trees in the next 10-15 years.

The summer heat, the drought, combined with winter cold spells and now usual late spring frosts have all but destroyed the country's agriculture too. The new government has initiated a water retention plan, but it might be too little to late.

lukaslalinsky•33 minutes ago
I had a similar observation this year. In 2015, I was in California, was doing some hiking on the weekends, and I found it very unnatural how all the grasses were dry, trails dusty, on the hills/mountains. I came back to Slovakia, and I was happy to see the green grass. Fast-forward to 2026, and our grasses are equally dry and trails are equally dusty. Water management seems to be more important than ever, because this is only going to get worse. Maybe we need to build massive reservoirs, to retain the flood water somehow, if we want to keep living here in the next 100 years.
ricardobayes•6 minutes ago
Balaton's current level is something like... 40-50cm so yeah you're right. This is unprecedented
barbazoo•about 2 hours ago
> because .. inevitably .. this super dry summer means there will be heavier rains in October

What's the process here for that region? I don't think the moisture is waiting anywhere.

MomsAVoxell•about 1 hour ago
I’ve had it explained to me that it evaporates in the heat and gets deposited in the mountains and the atmosphere above the more northern states, where .. once things cool down, it condenses and moves through tributaries in a big rush or two during the massive temperature changes of October/November.

The thunder storms we’ve had in Vienna in the last few years have produced amazing floods - reminiscent of the desert storms of Australias north-west, where I am from - and a couple years back, the engineering of Viennas water ways was put to the test, with the floods overflowing railway lines and traffic arteries of the city in ways not seen much before this decade...

Ekaros•about 1 hour ago
Finland has escaped most of the heat of Central Europe. We have had hard rains occasionally, but overall not that much more rain. From stats look like 100-150% of historic numbers.

So it has really not rained outside the high pressure zone. So I am not really sure where it all would be.

Thlom•41 minutes ago
West coast of Norway. 12-15 degrees and rain most of the summer.
touwer•about 2 hours ago
It's so dry, even in tne Netherlands and north of France. Amazing how quickly it goes
MomsAVoxell•about 2 hours ago
I can’t imagine what the Netherlands would look like if desertification would occur. It seems implausible that those flat, flat lands would ever turn brown and grey and dusty - but I won’t be surprised if things turn that way in a few years. I hope the Dutch have a solution, they always seem to when it comes to water control ..
microtonal•about 1 hour ago
I think currently one of the biggest risks for The Netherlands is salinization. If there is not enough river water and the groundwater level is too low, sea water will push upward, contaminating the river beds and increasingly much soil around it. This summer they had to close locks to block seawater and to increase the fresh water level. Of course, this has a considerable economic damage, since it blocks inland shipping.
throw-the-towel•about 2 hours ago
I think Hungary is supposed to be dry though? Not this dry, sure, but still.
MomsAVoxell•about 2 hours ago
Sure, it gets dry in summer, it’s not always so lush - at least in my experience over the years.

But, parks of dead grass, and dust devils blowing in the corners? Can’t say I’ve seen that much over the decades of visiting the region. In fact I don’t think I’ve ever seen so much dry, dead grass.

I, for one, am very grateful for my neighborhood turning the streets into cooler, greener little oases for pedestrians. Perhaps those eucalyptus trees the Schönbrunner Zoo keeps for its koalas will be of use in providing avenues of shade in the decades to come, who knows …

markvdb•7 minutes ago
AMOC collapse [0] is Europe's potential big climate challenge. Nasty business. I wonder how to help prevent that from happening.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_meridional_overturnin...

pluc•3 minutes ago
But at least we can talk to search engines now
gniv•about 1 hour ago
The timing of this article is a bit unfortunate. It's been raining here (France) every day for the past week, sometimes heavily.
throw-the-towel•about 1 hour ago
That's been long overdue. I really doubt a few days of rain would make anyone in France forget the rest of this summer.
DataDive•about 2 hours ago
Europe is caught in a dilemma: tourism, air travel, and city hopping are its economic lifeblood that keeps the continent running, but these also cause the greatest damage to the environment.

Since they can't fix the real problem are trying to go "green" in counterproductive ways that make things worse: blowing up nuclear plants or taxing cow fart.

alde•about 1 hour ago
EU currently emits only 5% of the globally emitted greenhouse gases.

You can cut all the city hopping you want and it won't make the slightest difference.

morsch•about 1 hour ago
More like 6%, roughly in line with its population share (5.4%). Not sure if that includes air travel, international air travel often isn't included in national statistics. https://edgar.jrc.ec.europa.eu/report_2025
netsharc•about 1 hour ago
If it's not significant, can I have 5% of your net worth?

If the EU mandated that products imported are made in a carbon neutral fashion, then importers of products will pay attention. Unfortunately it means higher prices, and the governments will get voted out of office by people voting for the populists selling the electoral promise of "Make Prices Low Again!"...

paganel•about 1 hour ago
You won’t mind higher prices? Are you rich? Because most of us Europeans certainly aren’t.
TazeTSchnitzel•40 minutes ago
The EU is responsible for a lot more than that once you factor in emissions in other countries producing goods bought by people and businesses in EU countries.
morsch•about 1 hour ago
Tourism is 10% of the economy, most of it is domestic or internal to Europe; most of it doesn't involve air travel or city hopping.
simonh•about 1 hour ago
10% of an economy is a lot, you don’t need to lose much of that to hit the entire sector very hard.
DataDive•41 minutes ago
Note that this 10% is heavily skewed toward the richest, biggest cities.

In bigger cities, it might be closer to 20-30% of their economy.

Take that away, and it would have a cascading effect through entire countries.

arlort•14 minutes ago
Big cities are not big because of tourism.

Unless you count the historical city center of Venice as a big city I doubt you'd get many big cities getting even close to those numbers

I can't easily/quickly find some numbers but if we want to accept, with a grain of salt, Gemini research on this even in Venice (I think it counts Mestre as well) it's ~15% and that's the highest it found.

morsch•23 minutes ago
Doesn't appear to be true, it's < 10% for the biggest cities (based on cursory research). Rome was 5% pre COVID; less now.

https://assets-global.website-files.com/6329bc97af73223b5759...

mytailorisrich•about 1 hour ago
I must depend on the country because the trend is that some countries, the UK for instance, are receiving more rain as climate warms, but it is becoming more seasonal. This year winter was extremely wet then indeed summer has been a record dry, so not sure how the year will look like overall (plus it's a strong El Niño year).
kkylin•6 minutes ago
[delayed]
aliasxneo•22 minutes ago
Just a friendly reminder that Fortune has been owned since 2018 by Thai businessman Chatchaval Jiaravanon, a member of the Chearavanont family that controls the CP Group conglomerate. CP Group created Siam Land Flying in 1991 as its in-house flight department for executives. It later added charter (Executive Wings) and air-ambulance services and still operates King Air 350 and Hawker jets.

These owners don't care about any of your feelings on climate change.

gruez•16 minutes ago
>These owners don't care about any of your feelings on climate change.

Would you rather than they kill stories relating to climate change and pretend everything's fine instead? If not, what's the actual point of bringing that factoid up? Sure, rich people flying in private jets might be bad, but I'm not sure why it deserves extra condemnation just because they happen to own a publication that's reporting on the effects of climate change.

mschuster91•about 1 hour ago
Just came back from a bike tour through rural Bavaria, it's insane how dusty everything is - and that despite a short but intense rain today night. The farmers around here are pretty much screwed this season, and not just the crop farmers but the cattle farmers as well, as they have to buy lots of feed now that they'd only have to buy in winter.
nakedrobot2•34 minutes ago
Atmospheric injections of Sulphur is going to be the only answer.
usern20260720•28 minutes ago
oh, yes. Anything but stopping the extraction, trade or combustion of fossil fuels. Even if the workarounds have unforeseen consequences.
the__alchemist•19 minutes ago
Sulfur or similar may be more politically viable due to the tradgedy-of-the-commons. They can be enacted without as much consensus, maybe.
inigyou•27 minutes ago
It's too late for that. We had to do it 20 years ago. Plus, you and I have no power over fossil fuel extraction, but we do have the individual ability to put sulphur in the upper atmosphere (with effort). Game theory rules everything.
hiddencost•23 minutes ago
Even if we hit carbon neutral tomorrow it's too late.
NooneAtAll3•about 1 hour ago
paywall
pmpmpmpm•about 2 hours ago
Who is liable for the deaths caused by extreme weather patterns? Is anyone?
inigyou•25 minutes ago
Nobody is liable.
GolfPopper•about 2 hours ago
Legally? Almost certainly no one. Ethically? The corporate executives who deliberately covered up evidence of global warming, starting back in the 70s.[1]

1. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/01/harvard-led-a...

failbuffer•29 minutes ago
And don't forget the politicians and media personalities who knowingly or negligently denied that there was even a problem.
inigyou•22 minutes ago
They're winning. They have billions of dollars and very cushy lives.
barbazoo•about 1 hour ago
Including executives that still refuse to price in the environmental externalities of their business practices.
strictnein•about 1 hour ago
And since we've all known about this for 30+ years, is it still their fault, or is it ours?
inigyou•25 minutes ago
What should I have done about it for the past 30 years?
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hn_submit•about 1 hour ago
Complete nonsense. Even climate chance won't change the amount of rainfall we get over the course of the year. In fact, it will most likely be wetter due to it.

But it will become more uneven, with droughts followed by torrential rains and floods. We simply need to adapt by creating underground water basins that store torrential rainfall preventing floods and also serve as buffers for when the drought comes.

I do believe places like Spain could see more desertification, though. But they were at the brink for centuries in any case, especially inland.

ElFitz•7 minutes ago
I’ve been to quite a few deserts that get the occasional seasonal torrential rain.

They still remain deserts nine to ten months out of twelve.

The water saturates the soil, can’t percolate to underground aquifers where it could otherwise be stored, and runs into (ephemeral) rivers, washing away some of whatever is left of the soil with it.

I wouldn’t be surprised if two places could have roughly the same yearly amount of precipitation yet look completely different depending on how the rainfalls are distributed over time.

reenorap•about 1 hour ago
Droughts are scary and they suck badly. California went through one for 10+ years. However, don’t go off the deep end and think that it’s the “new normal” like Californians did at one point.

All it took was one big rainfall a few years ago, and California has been out of drought ever since then. The reservoirs have been above historic norms and at the end of this summer, it’s only “abnormally dry”. Compare that to a few years ago where the entire state was mostly in an exceptional level of drought.

Droughts and heat waves suck and many people are suffering but nature goes in cycles and it will get better.

lukaslalinsky•42 minutes ago
People are not scared of individual droughts. They are scared of the patterns. Here in Slovakia, the last real winter with proper snow depths we had was in 2018, if I remember correctly. There is pretty much no snow anymore. All the water comes in form of heavy rainfall, causing massive floods, and the water goes straight to the sea. Nature depends on the water accumulating on the mountains during the winter, and that just doesn't seem to happen, at least in this part of Europe.
et-al•8 minutes ago
Please check aquifer levels and let us know if they're back to historic norms.
alphabeta3r56•about 1 hour ago
Yeah in this case the cycle might be 5000 years long once Milankovich cools things down again.
ElProlactin•31 minutes ago