Windows 11's "special" developer edition looks like another marketing misfire

bbundie about 3 hours ago 33 commentsRead Article on neowin.net

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Discussion (33 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

tempodox•about 1 hour ago

> If Project Zenith is a "distraction-free Windows experience," does that imply that everyone else is using nerfed experiences with needless distractions?

Yes.

majormajor•17 minutes ago

Well, I mean, no. It could mean that regular Windows has things that could be distracting for developer workflows but might have other legitimate purposes.

Like when a Porsche 911 trim strips out the AC and stereo to provide a "distraction free driver experience" that doesn't mean that those things are "needless" to everyone else.

(Though in truth Windows 11 is full of dumb crap, but that doesn't mean we have to try---and fail!---to play clever lawyerball word games to make the point.)

(And honestly, I don't think MS's idea of a good developer experience is going to be the same as mine or most of HN's. There are entire other worlds of 'development' out there.)

ptrl600•about 1 hour ago

Do they mean like, a version of Windows where I don't have to go into folder options and click "show file extensions"?

gerdesj•17 minutes ago

Windows does care about file extensions but is mildly embarrassed about it, hence the "show" default that has existed from Win 8 (?) onwards.

Linux and co generally work with magic bytes which is just another way of doing file formats. Is it better to signify your file format with a .ext or otherwise?

I find myself turning on file extensions if I have to use Windows and on Linux, I don't care and it just works.

I think the UIs for Linux are better. I think that MS are hung up on trying to suggest their stuff so it gets in the way a bit. On Linux, you just get the best option based on what is installed.

internet2000•25 minutes ago

So what is it, concretely? Default settings and bundled software? Like Lenovo bloatware but from Microsoft?

martheen•about 1 hour ago

When I read the headline of the announcement article, I thought it would be in the spirit of https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dev-drive/, instead it's just advertising a series of device that most devs won't ever buy.

Devs might be bad at marketing to general public, but if the target market are devs, run the ads through them first. Even if they're in a building with no dev at all, surely one can be reached through an internal email.

ryandrake•about 1 hour ago

It's just cover to justify the future claim: "See? Nobody wants a distraction-free, decrappified Windows. Nobody bought it..."

abirch•about 2 hours ago

I refuse to use windows at home. I'll use it at work, but it's either Xubuntu or MacOS at home. I couldn't be happier.

yipinwong•about 1 hour ago

I have no choice but to use Windows at home due to 200+ Steam games I own. Many work only on Windows only. Emulation don't work for most on Linux.

I got a separate PC just for linux btw, so no biggie

MaulingMonkey•about 1 hour ago

I shelled out for a Steam Machine (SteamOS ≈ Arch Linux.) I do gamedev, and I figured having a test machine was a decent enough excuse for a purchase. It's working suprisingly well for the games I'm actually playing. They're playing better than on my last Windows desktop tower, even, presumably due to a better GPU.

Granted, catalogs vary - anti-cheat and DRM may not play nice, and EvE Online wasn't stable until I switched the renderer from D3D12 to D3D11 (and I haven't tried playing with multiple accounts) - but you might revisit Linux gaming if it's been awhile since you last have.

The enshittification of Windows has finally driven me to the point where Linux compatability is going to start affecting my Steam purchases.

mrec•6 minutes ago

Out of interest, are you doing any dev on the SM? If so, how is it for that?

worble•44 minutes ago

Meanwhile my steam library of 900+ works pretty much flawlessly on linux. Yes the odd esoteric game needs a workaround or two, but honestly if you browse the pcgamingwiki then you'd notice you also need to tweak them on windows too, such is the problem with older games.

NamTaf•11 minutes ago

Echoing this. I would have to go out of my way to find one that does not work simply by double-clicking the steam entry. This is on Arch

brianwawok•25 minutes ago

Ditto. Nothing I want to play doesn’t work on Linux / bazzite.

asdff•about 1 hour ago

Whenever I used windows for games I just installed it on a partition and solely used it for steam. Nothing else installed but steam and games. Usually with the free unregistered version of windows because I could not care less about setting a desktop background. Too insufferable for any other use.

LoFiSamurai•about 1 hour ago

Same. ArchLinux and macOS for me.

conorcleary•16 minutes ago

They should go do version 9 like a fork with hindsight

2OEH8eoCRo0•about 2 hours ago

They could stop hogging so much memory. My work laptop was fine on Win 10 and on Win 11 it began swapping to disk.

floro•about 2 hours ago

Unused RAM is wasted RAM. And swap usage is not an issue either unless there's a lot of swap in/out happening.

fishgoesblub•about 2 hours ago

> Unused RAM is wasted RAM

A terrible phrase constantly used in defense of bloated, wasteful programs using gobs of memory to achieve nothing.

nothercastle•about 1 hour ago

It’s true unused it wasted but unfortunately what it’s used for is decided by corporate flavor of the month so garbage one drive, teams and Gemini builds eat all the ram that would be better used by other applications people actually like

mc32•42 minutes ago

Indeed. They can’t know what other applications you need to run. So they more frugal the OS and application, the more available for other software apps.

Dylan16807•about 1 hour ago

> Unused RAM is wasted RAM

This applies to caches, and it applies to time versus memory tradeoffs in expensive algorithms. Win11 wastes a lot of memory on neither.

theandrewbailey•21 minutes ago

These days, swapping to disk means your SSD wears out and dies faster. That's very much an issue.

bena•about 2 hours ago

If I’m encoding video or running a database, sure.

But the OS should be as lean as possible because the entire reason is to run other programs.

cosmic_cheese•about 1 hour ago

> But the OS should be as lean as possible because the entire reason is to run other programs.

In my mind Classic Mac OS (minus its design issues) is the ideal to strive for here.

It was barely even an OS and more like a substrate for GUI applications to run on top of. Even “essentials” like networking and USB support were implemented by way of extensions which could be disabled at will. If you disabled all extensions you’d get something resembling a full color version of the original 1985 System 1.0 that took almost no resources. This was great for squeezing out every last drop for things like games and emulators.

PorciiVorbesc•about 1 hour ago

The windows kernel is smart enough to free RAM for the highest demanding app like rendering or video editing, even if the idle is high.

That's why there's no accurate 1:1 comparison between operating systems. Windows, MacOS, and LInux will treat physical memory very differently bot at idle, and during heavy use.

Sure, Win 11 has a lot of bloat and poorly coded Web apps that should be removed or rewritten in native, but the kernel is still top notch at managing even limited memory.

asdff•about 1 hour ago

Until you open something else