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61% Positive

Analyzed from 5771 words in the discussion.

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#apple#siri#space#don#things#intelligence#settings#privacy#ios#off

Discussion (218 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

VCFundedGenYer1 day ago
I want the disk space taken from the models back.

I will never touch this garbage and would rather use the disk space I purchased to be used for my purposes, not the industry's pointless fad bubble endeavors.

thedanbobabout 12 hours ago
I followed this guide[0] (with hints from this issue[1]) to recover 16+ GB. It's ridiculous that one has to go to such lengths, but I was not willing to give up 16% of my free space for models I will never use.

[0] https://github.com/tejyash/delete-apple-intelligence-macos [1] https://github.com/tejyash/delete-apple-intelligence-macos/i...

xoaabout 9 hours ago
One thing I haven't seen tried in any of these things floating around (I'm still on macOS 15) that is the first thing I'd test after deletion is to stick a locked dummy file in there of the same name and see if that interferes with redownloads without any of the other mess. That's a classic simple hack. Ie, after deletion just a quick

  # touch com_apple_MobileAsset_UAF_FM_GenerativeModels
  # chflags schg com_apple_MobileAsset_UAF_FM_GenerativeModels
Then reenable SIP (or not). While maybe Apple stuck in some extra smarts in their download logic, and a full system update I think nowadays just blows everything away and replaces it, I've found in practice developers (not unreasonably) tend not to consider non-trivially-removable files appearing "where they're not supposed to be" and build a path for that. Granted, possible the process just ends up spinning trying to redownload over and over again or something but would be an easy thing to test.
m4rtinkabout 10 hours ago
Yeah, this is bad for all kinds of reasons:

- opt-in without user consent

- on already traditionally overpriced Apple hardware

- storage being overpriced to insane levels on top due to the AI bubble

- apple hardware being impossible to upgrade by the user to higher amount of storage due to chips soldered on or artificial limitations on what storage can be installed

titzer1 day ago
> disk space

I honestly do not understand what the 28GB Tahoe update contained. Like, I cannot imagine what all the code does. It'd take a lifetime to actually go through it all, and yet, here I am just using the same programs I did before it, just with rounder corners and some other pretty things. Actually wait, fewer programs, because some things break or have markedly less functionality.

burningChrome1 day ago
>> Actually wait, fewer programs, because some things break or have markedly less functionality.

The new liquid glass ui also fails a lot of basic accessibility checkpoints like contrast, readability, and increases cognitive load.

The rounded corners you speak of also hamper tap and touch targets for users with motor disabilities. The rounded corners make icons and other elements less distinct, increasing the possibility of touch or tap errors.

devilsdataabout 22 hours ago
The blur effect from liquid glass slightly, but noticeably, lowers the frame rate on iOS 27, as well. By turning on "Reduce Transparency" it became a bit smoother, more like iOS 18 was. God I miss iOS 18.
TheCorehabout 21 hours ago
A good chunk of this (20GB) is AI models, particularly Apple's local LLM (used to power parts of Siri and a couple other things)

It's not really "code" in the traditional sense

classified1 day ago
I don't take this abuse any longer. My last Mac is on macOS 14 and it will stay there for the remainder of its existence. I'm on Linux now and I'm not missing much compared to Mac. I'll put it this way: If a move to Apple Silicon would make me lose most of my apps anyway, then I might just as well move to an OS where I'm the boss again. Also, gaming got way better with Steam's Proton and the Heroic Game Launcher for GOG and others. I'm not going back.
devilsdataabout 22 hours ago
Yeah I'm running macOS 15 until it becomes unsupported, then I'm going to try Debian or Fedora.
csomarabout 18 hours ago
Many apps in the App Store are now 0.5Gb in size. I got an M5 with 2 Terabytes a couple weeks ago and I was wondering why do I need all this space for. I guess I might end up short on space.
mort961 day ago
Absolutely 100%. Now I'm very biased against this "AI" stuff in general, but even fans of "AI" can't want this, right? I mean I know some people who are heavy "AI" users and they all either have a setup with Cursor/Codex/Zed/VSCode/whatever or their preferred local model, they'd never ever want to use "whatever Apple happens to ship with the OS". Same with the model Google bundled into their browser, growing Chrome from roughly 200MB to over 4GB. Who's the target audience here?

It's investors isn't it.

jm41 day ago
I actually like AI tools, but I don’t use Apple Intelligence. It’s literally the worst in class. It feels very late 90’s Microsoft. They are shoving it on us when we don’t want it and it’s worse than everything else out there. It’s the Windows Media Player of the AI industry.
alwillis1 day ago
> It’s literally the worst in class. It feels very late 90’s Microsoft.

1. I was around in the 90’s; nothing today is that bad.

2. Siri AI is dramatically better than old-school Siri. You don’t realize how useful personal context is until you have it.

Something like “When was the last time I went to that pizza place downtown?”—it just works.

When you call the airline about your flight, your flight info automatically shows up.

dainankabout 16 hours ago
> It’s the Windows Media Player of the AI industry.

I personally found WMP great. I never felt any urge to install alternatives (and the few times I did end up using another media player, I always thought it was a worse experience than WMP).

MarcScott1 day ago
No, there are a tonne of Apple users that aren't developers, that will probably love this. They'll currently be using paid subscriptions to OpenAI, but only via the web app, and will happily switch to using Apple Intelligence.
dd8601fn1 day ago
I’m a developer.

The pitch isn’t that it will replace claude or codex runing 284 agents vibeslopping for me. It’s that Siri is pretty damn good now, with safe access the data I kinda wish could be accessed safely by an assistant.

It has a ways to go on some of the productivity stuff, and third parties have work to do, but that’s fine. They built a better foundation than anyone else has for its purpose.

mort961 day ago
Is Apple Intelligence's local models better than free ChatGPT?
logancbrown1 day ago
You can't imagine a singular person and reason who would want an improved Siri?
mort961 day ago
On their laptop? No, not really. I guess the selling point is that your computer now suggests file names for you?
howunfortunate1 day ago
It's pretty nice from an app developers perspective.

It allows me to save money by calling a model on the users device rather than spending tokens (or forcing the user to spend tokens).

mort961 day ago
What does your users want your app to do with a language model?
Quothlingabout 16 hours ago
I would probably called pro AI these days considering how much I've worked on getting the people in my organisation to adapt and learn how to use it, and how much I use it professionally. I've not always been pro AI, I'm sure my previous comments have been quite the rollercoaster over the past year. These days I'm part of a process which will probably replace quite a lot of jobs with AI down the line. The morals of which is a different discussion.

I don't use AI personally though. So when I found out that apple intelligence is currently taking up 10gb on my macbook m1 with the tiniest configuration at the time, that's massive. I've turned everything off and denied it access to training on any sort of apps and it's still using up 10gb of my 128. Meaning that Mac OS now takes up 53.76% of my drive. The AI I don't use being 12.8 of that. If Apple sold devices with large drives as default that might be less of an issue, but they don't. It's a little ironic, but I originally switched from Linux to Apple because I want my technology to work out of the box, but now it looks like I'll soon be going back for that same reason.

userbinatorabout 18 hours ago
I played around with local image generation models not long ago, and I downloaded them myself along with the rest of the software I needed. Then again, the average Apple user seems to want to put themselves on a leash(noose?) with Apple on the other end.
devilsdataabout 22 hours ago
The AI in Siri is actually really good. I can ask it something like "what is Judy's favourite food?" and it will do a full search of the databases of all the default apps and find that info.

As for the other AI features such as autocomplete, memoji, notification summaries... I'm really not a big fan at all.

idinnoanameabout 21 hours ago
And poor Judy thought for just a moment that someone actually cared enough about her to remember her favourite food. Sorry Judy, youre just not that important I suppose. :|
eastbound1 day ago
I think a large part of our ecosystem is:

1. Lose the user, make him struggle to find items in the Start menu (Windows), struggle to type words on the keyboard (iOS), or struggle to manage find their subscription (Atlassian),

2. ???

3. Profit

If it's a dark pattern, I'd like to know what step 2 is. Who knows, maybe the goal is to overwhelm the user and it's a spy operation from the KGB.

dualvariable1 day ago
> it's a spy operation from the KGB.

time-travelling KGB operatives from 1991.

dyauspitrabout 20 hours ago
I think you may be misunderstanding what the Apple LLMs or models are used for. It almost certainly isn’t something you used to write code for development. It’s to power all the intelligence features on the phone like whenever you ask Siri a question.
jackyard86about 11 hours ago
I don't know about Macs, but under iOS/iPadOS you can set the Siri region to somewhere Siri is unsupported (e.g. Russia) to get back about 15 gigabytes of storage. Also when you set it to Russia, Safari Reader's gigantic "summarize" button disappears so that's another bonus.
hirvi741 day ago
I wanted to like Siri AI, but it does not really do anything that I need at the moment.

I was hoping Siri AI could help more in the GUI automation world, but it seems that is not the case.

For example, I was hoping Siri AI could create a Shortcut that would clear/dismiss all notification banners. Nope, it can’t even access nor see notifications.

I have my own scripts and whatnot to handle these desires, but I am just tired of having to rework a lot of them for each OS release.

wartywhoa231 day ago
Same here!
zzyzxd1 day ago
I would never have figured out the toggle for writing tools is in `Settings -> Screen Time -> Content & Privacy Restrictions -> Siri -> Writing Assistance`
derefrabout 24 hours ago
Apple's assumption seems to be that the only reason you'd want to turn the LLM features off as a consumer is that you're a parent and you don't want your children interacting with LLMs. So they put it where "parent trying to lock down their child's computer" settings are.

(If you look, most other toggles that appear under "Content & Privacy Restrictions" are for similar things: things Apple provides no more-visible setting to disable; because they think you have "no reason" to turn these features off; because these features are, at least in Apple's opinion, "unobtrusive" [i.e. only really doing something if explicitly activated] and "costless.")

In contrast, I presume the underlying setting identifier, as appears in `defaults` and/or MDM profiles, has a more sensible hierarchical prefix based on what potential risks an organization would see in a roll-out of LLM use.

ETA: yes: the macOS settings domain for "LLM stuff" is `com.apple.applicationaccess`, and the declarative-configuration namespace is `com.apple.configuration.intelligence.settings`. Neither of which has anything to do with parental controls per se (though `com.apple.applicationaccess` is generally where MDM settings related to preventing employees from using "potentially insecure" device capabilities live.)

There's also the declarative-configuration namespace of `com.apple.configuration.external-intelligence.settings` ...which is a bit of a bass-ackwards use of their own declarative configuration model, since if it had been `com.apple.configuration.intelligence.external.settings` instead, then the settings in the enclosing "intelligence" namespace would serve as fallback defaults for the external-intelligence specific settings. Ah well.

wdr11 day ago
It's a common pattern in Apple products. They make it hard to turn off settings they really don't want you to turn off.

Another example is advertising. Apple made it easy for you to turn off advertising tracking for non-Apple things.

Apple made it very confusing to turn off advertising tracking for Apple things, including having a different setting for this to begin with.

tpmoneyabout 23 hours ago
> Apple made it very confusing to turn off advertising tracking for Apple things

Is it not Privacy & Security -> Apple Advertising -> Personalized Ads?

reustleabout 22 hours ago
Love or hate Omarchy, it's movements like that which are finally going to convince diehard macos users to consider a more open and controllable OS. Small annoyances can be ignored, but after a while, there is too much noise.

I am sure my Macbook uses a RNG to decide whether or not I can use touch ID to unlock.

csomarabout 18 hours ago
Instead of funding a skin UI for Linux, that money could have been used better to fund Asahi Linux.
nearlyepicabout 18 hours ago
How is this remotely related to omarchy? Nobody cares about your dotfile collection run by a racist and his racist friends.
dburkland1 day ago
The settings menus in recent iOS & macOS releases have been an absolute mess.
cco1 day ago
Even worse, once you're there, you toggle _on_ "Content & Privacy", and then what?

What does the toggle on for "Image creation" mean? Is that now restricted? Or is toggle off mean it is restricted?

buzer1 day ago
And people complained about Symbian menus...
plufz1 day ago
Wow insane.
varispeedabout 24 hours ago
Probably it is under Privacy because one day it will be transcribing everything you say and sending to government.

They already gave idea with client side scanning and now UK government will mandate that.

The next step is conversations.

kevmo1 day ago
Ah yes, bad design, something Apple is famous for.

This is obviously intentional.

fooker1 day ago
It's searchable
m4631 day ago
It (purposefully?) doesn't find everything.

For instance (this is just sequoia, but same for ios) searching for "improve" finds:

"improve assistive voice features" (I turned it off)

and diagnostic & usage data with: "improve siri & dictation" (I turned it off)

but under spotlight, it doesn't find "help apple improve search" (I turned that off too)

zzyzxd1 day ago
There are reasons graphical interfaces exist. Otherwise why don't we hide everything behind one single search box? And unless you are a die-hard Apple fan, you may not always know the correct feature name to search for.
roboror1 day ago
That's putting a bandaid on an infected wound.
FireBeyondabout 23 hours ago
If I want Siri to talk faster do I go to:

- Accessibility > Siri > Siri Speaking Rate

or

- Siri > Voice

Because in iOS 27 these two are absolutely not the same thing, and the one you probably want is the latter.

Forgeties791 day ago
Normally I'd say that's at least somewhat valid but Apple also has a nasty habit of coming up with new names for things everyone else had a name for for 30 years already. Then they do bizarre things like when I tried to help my mom with her airpod settings the other day - searching "airpod" gave no hits. I mean...what?
fooker1 day ago
Searching for "airpod" in settings brings up - Accessibility, "Headphones/AirPods/Beats", Conversation Boost, Noise Cancellation, Press and hold duration, Press speed, Transparency mode

Not sure what went wrong for you, these results seem pretty much on point.

pdpi1 day ago
Clearly, nobody at Apple is thinking globally about this stuff.

If you have kids, "Screen Time" is a reasonable enough name for the place where parental controls live.

If you work under the assumption that AI features are OK in general, but potentially problematic around kids in particular, parental controls are a reasonable enough place to put these AI controls.

If you're not a parent, and have broader concerns about AI, you'd never even think of looking for these options where they are.

tpmoney1 day ago
It's very weird that these aren't in the already existing top level "Siri" or "Privacy & Security" settings tabs. Apple has had a problem for a while now where it seems like they just don't know what they want to do with the settings app, and like you said, doesn't have anyone in charge of the "global" view of the settings. Why are, "Appearance", "Desktop & Dock" and "Wallpaper" all different top level items? Why are "Wi-Fi" and "Network" different top level items? Why is "Battery" top level, but "Time Machine" and "Sharing" and "Date & Time" are all under "General"? Why is "Autofill & Passwords" under general and not "Privacy & Security"?
dualvariable1 day ago
If AI/LLMs are so great, why isn't Apple using them to better organize all these settings?
prmoustacheabout 17 hours ago
Given how bad vibecoded apps are, I would say they do. It is just doing a shitty job.
asdffabout 24 hours ago
They don't want you to associate it with it being a privacy and security shortcoming.
tpmoneyabout 23 hours ago
Sure, that's the obvious first pass snarky answer, but clearly they don't care about having associations between AI functions and privacy because they make those associations in all sorts of places. Go into the Siri controls and you find links like: "Voice input is processed on Mac. About Siri, Dictation & Privacy..." or "About Apple Intelligence & Privacy...". Go into the Privacy settings and that's where you find the "Apple Intelligence Report".

And of course the referenced settings despite being under the Screen Time top level settings are still within a sub-section there called specifically "Content & Privacy". So the quick answer is obviously not the correct answer.

CodingJeebus1 day ago
As someone who has spent a lot of time trying to configure my iOS/Mac experience to be more intentional/less addictive, I am intimately familiar with Screen Time at this point. And my gut says this isn't an oversight on Apple's part at all.

This is very intentional because in my experience, Apple's attempt at actually managing screen time and device access is mostly theater, and it absolutely tracks that they'd bury this config within Screen Time.

snazz1 day ago
What have you found to be effective for you? I recently heard of this (basically Brick but open source and with any NFC tag or barcode), but I haven’t gotten a chance to test it out yet: https://www.foqos.app/
strictnein1 day ago
The thing that's weird about Apple's "Intelligence" features is how dumb they are. I messaged one of my kids yesterday that the pizza I made was ready and that I was out in the backyard with our dogs. Genmoji (or whatever it's called) then decided to suggest that I make a new Emoji with pizzas in a yard.

It's great that they're on device and all, but how incredibly stupid.

coldpie1 day ago
Many bothans died to bring you that suggestion to make a new emoji of pizzas in a yard.
psygn891 day ago
Mmm, freshly grown yard pizzas, just like AI ~~used to~~ currently makes.
doc_ick1 day ago
Still better then Microsoft.
hatsix1 day ago
I've never had Microsoft read a message, initiate an AI generation, then attempt to inject that into my conversation.

Not to say they wouldn't try...

asdffabout 24 hours ago
You don't use Outlook I take it.
devmor1 day ago
They’re too busy taking screenshots of your desktop every 2 seconds to datamine your interests in order to sell ads injected into the start menu.
a96about 15 hours ago
The very lowest bar that ever existed.
doc_ickabout 9 hours ago
Among popular OSs with mainstream app support, there’s only macOS and windows (and chromeOs I guess?). So you’re right, the lowest bar in a competition between two.
juancn1 day ago
It's the price you pay for privacy
k3101 day ago
This applies to MacOS 26.

On iOS 27, it looks like changing the settings for eight different apps taking 5 or 6 steps each.

https://archive.ph/AE72I#selection-712.0-731.53

Original: https://www.ithinkdiff.com/how-to-turn-off-apple-intelligenc...

MadrasThornabout 6 hours ago
Thanks for the heads up. I'm not going to upgrade to iOS 27.

I think my M5 will say on 26 as long as humanly possible.

getpost1 day ago
Select the version from the pulldown menu at the top left of the screen.
ShinyLeftPadabout 19 hours ago
This comment is exactly what "helpful" solutions in apple discussions are like.

There isn't iOS in the menu at all but it'll say confidently like it is and you'll be triple checking yourself for 5 min like a complete idiot

k3101 day ago
I only saw 26 and 15 in the pulldown. Might be due to my {REDACTED} version of macOS.
wartywhoa231 day ago
Apple, we want one global killswitch and a way to free disk space occupied by unused models.
pratyahavaabout 16 hours ago
yes, please, and also via cli so we can automate it.
Henchman21about 6 hours ago
Make it an installation choice so the bits never make it to local storage
Melatonicabout 14 hours ago
If you want to do this on iOS I got it to completely delete Apple Intelligence data listed in the iOS settings. My iOS install is now 15.57gb.

Instructions:

1. Change Siri to a different language than your phone (can be Australian or UK English or Canada if you have set to US English or similar)

2. Setup Screen Time content restrictions. Restrict Siri to "Classic Siri" only. In the same page you can disable additional AI features (like the ChatGPT extension)

3. Turn phone on and off.

4. Disable Siri in its own settings if wanted or keep Classic Simpleton Siri that can still set alarms

5. Sometimes you have to wait an hour for it to delete the actual files.

6. (Optional) plug in via USB-C cable to a computer and "sync settings" to get it to try to clear some kind of iOS cache (Mac or Windows - on windows you need the Apple System Manager or whatever it's called that's in the Windows Store)

userbinatorabout 18 hours ago
"Turn off and restrict access to Apple Intelligence features on Mac"

That title in itself is a good indicator of how they think of consent. If instead it was:

"Turn on and enable access to Apple Intelligence features on Mac"

I suspect there would be far less anger from the users.

parable1 day ago
Is it possible to block Apple Intelligence from sending data over the Internet via Little Snitch? I would assume it is, but I'm not sure if anything significant has changed in macOS 27 that makes this impossible now. I don't really mind the local features - I'd rather they stay disabled, but it's not the end of the world - but I really don't want any data leaving my Mac.
ActorNightly1 day ago
Apple OS will bypass any user space firewall.

You can verify this yourself. Get an old laptop to act as a wifi hotspot and forward traffic over usb ethernet adapter to your actual router. Then run tcpdump on the computer. You will see the multitude of phone-home traffic.

throwaway274481 day ago
Is there evidence of this anywhere on the internet? I couldn't find anything with ten minutes of searching, and I don't use little snitch, and I'm not going to put the effort in to remediate this just to figure out if this comment has weight.
agsnu1 day ago
Probably referring to https://www.obdev.at/blog/a-hole-in-the-wall - as of 2020

> As it turned out, this behavior is on purpose. There’s an explicit whitelist that allows certain macOS services to bypass any third party firewalls and to communicate on the Internet without being even noticed by the user. A hole in the wall.

Was remediated later, but shows there is precedent.

ActorNightlyabout 22 hours ago
.... I literally gave you a way to check this yourself. Not sure why you would need a 3d party source to find something you can discover yourself.

Also keep in mind that https://www.obdev.at/blog/a-hole-in-the-wall/ and its subsequent patch https://support.apple.com/en-us/102445 refers to things that bypass the firewall. There are things on your Mac that simply won't function if you block them from phoning home, making your OS an unusable mess.

arcanemachiner1 day ago
Non-macOS user here. Does macOS not let you run things as root?
nhubbard1 day ago
It does let you run things as root.
wartywhoa231 day ago
Well, I block all connections to iCloud for every app (user and system) completely with Little Snitch, and the fact that it does indeed break some little features I can absolutely live without, indicates that it has at least some effect.

But still, I fully share the sentiment that creators of an OS are perfectly capable of bypassing whatever there is running on top of it.

reaperducer1 day ago
Is it possible to block Apple Intelligence from sending data over the Internet via Little Snitch?

Short answer: Maybe, but I've never tried it.

Little Snitch is aware of various system-level network connections, but I don't know if they're granular enough to block the AI only.

parableabout 17 hours ago
I don't really care if anything else gets blocked as a side effect, except for Find My. As far as I know, `fmfd` and `findmydeviced` are the binaries responsible for that feature, so if I whitelist those binaries I should be fine.

Through my own usage of Little Snitch, it appears that all the iCloud-related features use individual binaries and that iCloud connections go to specific hosts for specific use cases (e.g. pxxx-contacts.icloud.com, pxxx-quota.icloud.com, pxxx-caldav.icloud.com). I'd assume the AI features are the same - specific hosts and binaries that I can block.

variety86751 day ago
Hopefully someone will make a script or small app to disable all of this in one click
Lio1 day ago
It's great that you can turn all this off but why is it tucked away in Screen Time of all places?

What's the thinking behind that?

snazz1 day ago
Seems like they think turning it off is only for kids’ devices. Perhaps they are missing the fact that many adults don’t want it either.
dd8601fnabout 20 hours ago
I’m curious what “many” means across billions of people.

Because I’d guess nearly everyone wants the new Siri to just be there and working.

snazzabout 10 hours ago
I’m not sure. If given the choice in isolation, perhaps most people would be happy to sign up for the new Siri. When it’s a trade-off that requires 25 GB of storage for Apple Intelligence and sticks various unhelpful buttons on the keyboard, maybe fewer people want it.

And there is certainly also a contingent of young people (especially) who dislike generative AI on ideological/moral/environmental grounds. That group may be overrepresented online, but it does exist.

bel81 day ago
Either dark pattern or incompetence. Sometimes both.
benoauabout 23 hours ago
I wouldn't underestimate their familiarity with dark patterns, the testimony on how they thwarted third party payments suggests they are well aware of the mechanics.

> In one model, for example, Apple worked to determine how the “less seamless experience” of using a non-IAP method would lead customers to abandon their transactions. By modeling where this tipping point was, Apple was able to determine when the links would stop being an advantage to developers, which would push them back to using IAP.

> Apple also found that more restrictive rules around the placement and formatting of the links themselves could reduce the number of apps that decided to implement these outside links.

> Lawyers suggested Cook himself was involved with how the warning to App Store customers would appear, recommending an update to the text that appears when the external links were clicked. In one version, that link warned customers they were “no longer transacting with Apple.” Later, the link was updated to subtly suggest there could be privacy or security risks with purchases made on the web.

https://techcrunch.com/2025/02/24/apple-exec-phil-schiller-t...

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MadrasThorn1 day ago
Every time I turn on my M5 I have to manually turn apple intelligence off.

Clearly a poor buy on my part

bflesch1 day ago
Funny how Apple has reached the crapware maturity level that Microsoft users are quite familiar with: After first boot, go through a long list of things to deactivate so that one can experience at least some feeling of agency and privacy when using your own hardware.
ASalazarMX1 day ago
I'd expect turning off Siri as a whole, which is very easy, would be enough. The list is for people who still want to use Siri after it became a OS-level LLM, I mean, Apple Intelligence.
throwaway274481 day ago
Presumably it's the LLM integrations into apps people want, not an anthropomorphized assistant
throw0101c1 day ago
> After first boot, go through a long list of things to deactivate so that one can experience at least some feeling of agency and privacy when using your own hardware.

The difference is that you can actually not set these things up: with Windows you often have to choice. Macs allow you to not have an iCloud account and run just fine without them, whereas to avoid a Microsoft cloud account there are magic CLI incantations that have to be invoked. And once you say "no", Apple generally leaves you alone.

I don't mind a bit of 'upsell' or informing (new) users of available offerings, as long as I get a choice.

butlike1 day ago
The issue with iCloud is that before you even know it, you're paying $9.99/mo. Since 200gb is quite low, the next tier up is 2tb for $9.99, but then you're essentially locked in. I can't view the iCloud price tiers as anything other than predatory.
officeplant1 day ago
But 50GB is $0.99 and I'm only really paying for it since I have a bunch of their private email addresses in use. iPhone backup with just the essentials I trust them with is less than 2GB.

I don't know how I would even begin to fill the 50GB plan since I don't trust any cloud storage provider with pictures and videos.

throwaway274481 day ago
> The issue with iCloud is that before you even know it, you're paying $9.99/mo.

Sounds like the issue is you.

moose3331 day ago
> Macs allow you to not have an iCloud account and run just fine without them

Until you need to install an app through the App store. Even a free app will refuse to install without an iCloud account. Frustrating when you want something with a verified source, for me it was Wireguard, and don't want to build it locally.

throw0101cabout 5 hours ago
> Frustrating when you want something with a verified source, for me it was Wireguard, and don't want to build it locally.

WG has MSI/EXE installers for Windows:

* https://download.wireguard.com/windows-client/

Not sure why they can't pave PKG/DMG files for macOS. As an open source example, MacPorts uses PKG:

* https://www.macports.org/install.php

On my work laptop I don't think I've installed anything from the Mac AppStore (Xcode is available from AppStore and (last I checked) as a downloadable XIP too.)

throwaway274481 day ago
> Until you need to install an app through the App store.

Do you have an example of needing to go through the app store? There's apple's apps, I guess.

reaperducer1 day ago
That's on Wireguard.

If they can apt get on Ubuntu, they can likely brew install on macOS.

ryandrake1 day ago
It's the "agency" bit that really annoys me. The Computer is no longer Personal. I expect my personal computer to only do things that I choose to invoke. It should not do a laundry list of things that the device manufacturer wants it to do, nor a laundry list of things the OS vendor wants it to do. I shouldn't have to turn things off. They shouldn't be on to begin with, unless I deliberately turned them on.

Of course this doesn't extend to obvious things like "running the kernel" and "initializing the filesystem." But in general I want to be the person responsible for running things, not some product manager 3,000 miles away in Silicon Valley.

tpmoney1 day ago
I think the fundamental problem is one person's "Only do the things I choose to invoke" is another person's "Why do I have to do all this stupid setup". Especially given that most people aren't computer people, and they want to use their computers to get other tasks done, not to be system administrators themselves.

Should your computer automatically build search indexes for your files? For most people, fast search is more useful than the disk space this takes up, but it would be doing something you didn't explicitly invoke.

Should your computer turn on global spell check (and even basic auto correct) for text fields? Again, you didn't invoke it explicitly, but most people probably think it's a good idea.

So you might say "well anything that just runs locally is ok" but even that's thorny. Obviously much of the AI stuff apple has been implementing is running locally and some of it has been around for a while (image classification in Photos for example). But not everyone wants the AI, even with local models.

And then there's things like "should your computer default to using NTP time?", again most people would probably say yes, especially given how important accurate time is for modern computer security. But it requires your computer doing network requests to make it work.

"Should your computer automatically check for updates?", again for most people the answer is probably "yes it should". But again it requires your computer to do network requests to make it all work.

"Should your computer automatically scan for malware?", probably yes it should, but keeping those malware lists up to date is going to require network requests and access.

There's always a tension between "being helpful and useful out of the box" and "doing stuff the OS vendor wants".

Anyone who wants an OS that does nothing out of the box is always free to grab any x86 box and install ArchLinux on it, but most people don't do that for the same reason that Spacemacs / Doom Emacs is more popular than a raw emacs install, and things like Sublime, or Notepad++ are more popular than those. Defaults matter a lot.

arcanemachiner1 day ago
> The Computer is no longer Personal. I expect my personal computer to only do things that I choose to invoke.

The internet and its consequences have been a disaster for the personal computer user.

Terr_1 day ago
Yeah, whatever happened to the personal computer, a kind of capital equipment available to the masses, something you own and can direct towards your goals and wellbeing?

Instead it's like we're sharecropping on a device companies have established as a colonial outpost to monitor us for profitable compliance.

wartywhoa231 day ago
It's like saying that wind blows because trees sway.

There's clearly an agenda to double down on stripping away all remaining privacy. The internet as we knew it and remembered as free is just the medium to make that happen, if not purely a byproduct of this.

throwaway274481 day ago
Comparing apple intelligence to a service that records your screen without consent feels extremely disingenuous.
mrweaselabout 13 hours ago
Mighty bold to assume that I'd enabled Siri in the first place. On the phone, probably personal preference and use cases, but why would you even have Siri on a Mac?
canada_dryabout 23 hours ago
When I hear a discussion among peers about Apple AI and security I remind them of this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38783112

Apple's reputation of being highly secure was shattered by Operation Triangulation. This complex back door allowed the hacker the ability to utilize the on-device AI to sift through data.

yborgabout 22 hours ago
The first jailbreak for iOS was available within six months of the original iPhone release, I'm not sure why you think this particular exploit "shattered" a reputation that hadn't existed for 15+ years.
rramonabout 19 hours ago
MacOS GG didn't fit on my 16gb USB drives for a clean reinstall so I decided to upgrade from Tahoe and do a clean wipe afterwards, expecting that this leaves me with a clean GG install. But guess what, after wiping I was back on Tahoe after spending hours updating..
Mindwipe1 day ago
It's really frustrating that there is no ability to reclaim the drive space in MacOS 27, especially on Macbooks with M1 or M2 chips that can barely use the models. Another great sign of how the OS is deeply on fire IMO.
userbinatorabout 18 hours ago
How can you say it's your computer if you can't just delete the files yourself? Is it really your SSD?
rvz1 day ago
Especially iPhones.

You can’t determine what is taking up space on your iPhone in the “system data” or “Other” section in iOS. The only way to “reduce” it is to restore and wipe the phone.

That is a scam.

busymom01 day ago
My "system data" is taking up 193 GB.

Is my Mac doing something wrong here? Anyway to see what's inside?

https://i.imgur.com/YRQiaVm.png

tpmoneyabout 22 hours ago
It's likely things like volume snapshots, indexes, application caches etc

https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-250010335

todfox1 day ago
The Write with Siri button that shows up whenever I select text is so obnoxious that I want to trash this fucking machine after 30+ years on the platform.
bityard1 day ago
I don't know this for sure, but I would also guess that simply not singing into your iCloud account on the Mac is easier and would work just as well.

(I have a Macbook that I use for various things. Other than lack of access to the Apple Store, I don't feel like I'm missing anything from not having an iCloud account.)

snazzabout 21 hours ago
My work Mac is not signed into iCloud and the writing tools popup appeared when selecting text on it after updating to macOS 27. I disabled that in the Screen Time settings.
ozozozd1 day ago
I also avoid signing in to iCloud to prevent Apple from scanning my files and photos.

I think the App Store sign in is separate from iCloud btw.

ezfeabout 23 hours ago
You can just turn on E2E encryption for iCloud Photos
chewbacha1 day ago
Oh wow, I need to customize every app to disable learning from that app?

Next phone is not gonna be an iPhone.

ivan8881 day ago
How about removing the Siri button from the menu bar? This doesn’t seem possible anymore (it reappears some time after dragging it out)
dd8601fnabout 20 hours ago
Settings > Menu bar

Uncheck Siri

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mococa1 day ago
I know macOS is a private OS, but what is inside the binary blob? Why my mail client think some emails are important but not are.
reaperducer1 day ago
Missing from Apple's list is the feature that suggest filenames.

At first, it was very cool and did a good job with plain text files, and even a PDF. Then it munged the names of several hundred files I was working with that was each named with a street address.

Finder → Settings → Suggest file names

iAMkenough1 day ago
Note that storage space taken up by local models is not reclaimed and remains dormant on your Mac until you're nearly out of space.
rgovostes1 day ago
Philosophically, what is the difference between empty space and space that will be reclaimed when you need it?

The storage medium tracks whether a cell or sector is overwritable. The filesystem tracks whether a block is allocated. And the OS tracks whether a cache is evictable.

At what layer do you consider the space “claimed”?

ProfessorLayton1 day ago
I haven't run into this on macOS yet, but on iOS the space is not reclaimed in time to avoid running out of space even with Apple Intelligence turned off:

- Not enough space to update iOS without a computer tether, even though there would have been if that ~13GB on my phone was actually freed up. Instead I had to delete several GB on my phone.

- Recordings stopping due to lack of space, and again the 13GB LLM model on my phone was not removed before running into this.

I'm actually not where if/when I'll ever get my space back, and this is on iOS 26. It takes up even more space on iOS 27, and I don't have enough free space to waste on my 256GB phone.

kccqzy1 day ago
In practice the difference is whether the code that does this reclaiming is actually working. I’ve never gotten my Mac into a low disk space situation (other than maybe in Leopard days) but on iOS, it is quite frequent for me to trigger a situation where the free space including purgeable space is many gigabytes but actual free space is nil. Trying to commit a transaction in a SQLite database in an app? Sorry you can’t, there’s no space left on device. Now go to settings and observe that you have 15 GB left (which includes purgeable space). Even SpringBoard has trouble showing icons. I do not trust Apple’s OS level disk space purging at all. I trust the filesystem and the storage medium more.
acuozzo1 day ago
> Philosophically, what is the difference between empty space and space that will be reclaimed when you need it?

It makes large allocations fail which would have otherwise succeeded.

"When you need it" is a state you can only enter into, AFAICT, when you approach the limit gradually, not abruptly.

paper2d1 day ago
Realistically, the 'claim space' service needs to run when the OS 'thinks' it has run out of space to reclaim it. And there can be M amount of waiting time for this and N number of issues that may arrive with it.
iAMkenough1 day ago
Beyond the technical differences already mentioned, there's also the difference in consent. The 8-16GB of dormant AI data is either on your $2K 128GB device, or it's not.

In this regard, Apple did not learn from the free U2 album they automatically added to everyone's iTunes account at no charge.

There was enough outrage at the lack of consent in that decision, Apple had to create a special support path for removing it from accounts.

Given the divisive opinions about AI, it's odd Apple didn't include a "delete" button to completely remove it from your device if you wish.

https://web.archive.org/web/20141116221641/https%3A//support...

totetsu1 day ago
They cant take up that free space if it was already full in the first place..
JumpCrisscross1 day ago
Why did they nerf the keyboard interface to Siri?

Before, it was ⌘⌘ and you could type out something for Siri to fuck up. Now, we have to turn off “Hey Siri” and then click on the Siri app or meander our way through Spotlight.

I talk to my phone. I type to my laptop.

petu1 day ago
> meander our way through Spotlight

By that you mean that just typing prompt into Spotlight doesn't work reliably? For me after few words "Ask Siri" is first result.

JumpCrisscross1 day ago
It’s a laggy modal. For the operating system’s native-sometimes-local AI, I’d have expected something snappier.
wat100001 day ago
Cmd-space, type, done.
lynndotpy1 day ago
I'm not sure what configuration you have, but this does not send requests to Siri a-la the "cmd-cmd <type to siri>" flow.
wat100001 day ago
It does as long as you've typed something that doesn't match an app. "Safari" and enter will open Safari. "What is safari" and enter will ask Siri the question and show the answer.
kittikittiabout 23 hours ago
The Log4J vulnerability stressed the importance of avoiding logging passwords and keys. I think the newest Log4J will be about privacy, where PII is regularly exposed and instantly searchable by anyone who wants to know. I actively disable Apple Intelligence because they share my data with numerous 3rd parties with self-certified privacy agreements every time I press a key on the keyboard.
juicelandabout 23 hours ago
>Apple Intelligence because they share my data with numerous 3rd parties with self-certified privacy agreements every time I press a key on the keyboard.

Who does Apple share your data with?

beatrizmelo321tabout 19 hours ago
Mmg
mmooss1 day ago
Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater! Apple has some impressive privacy technology for Apple Intelligence - including significant open source disclosure for public verification. If you trash them with the rest of the AI vendors, you deincentivize privacy for Apple and for the rest of them.

They describe it in great technical detail here (Private Cloud Compute (PCC) seems to be the server side of Apple Intelligence):

https://security.apple.com/documentation/private-cloud-compu...

.

At the heart of it, they provide these guarantees:

https://security.apple.com/documentation/private-cloud-compu...

* Stateless Computation: "Private Cloud Compute must use the personal user data that it receives exclusively for the purpose of fulfilling the user’s request. User data must never be available to anyone other than the user, not even to Apple staff, not even during active processing. And user data must not be retained, including via logging or for debugging, after the response is returned to the user."

* Enforceable Gaurantees: "Security and privacy guarantees are strongest when they are entirely technically enforceable, which means it must be possible to constrain and analyze all the components that critically contribute to the guarantees of the overall Private Cloud Compute system. For example, it’s very difficult to reason about what a TLS-terminating load balancer might do with user data during a debugging session, so PCC must not depend on such external components for its core security and privacy guarantees. ..."

* No Privileged Runtime Access: PCC is designed without privileged interfaces that might expose user data.

* Non-Targetability: PCC is designed to ensure that an attacker cannot target specific PCC users.

* Verifiable Transparency: "security researchers must be able to verify the security and privacy guarantees of Private Cloud Compute, and they must be able to verify that the software that’s running in the PCC production environment is the same as the software they inspected when verifying the guarantees."