Back to News
Advertisement
Advertisement

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

70% Positive

Analyzed from 2437 words in the discussion.

Trending Topics

#games#steam#apple#machine#console#don#gaming#hardware#nintendo#linux

Discussion (49 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

Muromec•14 minutes ago
If I know anything about those communities, they sit on a bag of zero days and another bag of leads to zero days in the bootloader or whatever everjail they need to break out of.
MaxBarraclough•41 minutes ago
At a glance, it looks like it exploits a bug in WebKit's JavaScriptCore JavaScript engine.

Does the PS5's WebKit use JavaScriptCore with JIT enabled? Have to wonder if Sony will respond by disabled its JIT, to narrow the attack surface.

Daklone•15 minutes ago
Playing PC Games from Steam on PS5 would be a win.
Cyph0n•5 minutes ago
Might be a reality quite soon! https://github.com/boykopovar/AnyPS5
t1234s•about 1 hour ago
From a non-gamer is there any reason there isn't something like an Apple TV Pro that would be a 4K gaming console? I imagine they have hardware capable of this in their existing inventory. Would it be the major game studios are kept locked in to XBox or PS consoles?
idle_zealot•about 1 hour ago
Apple tried this, I forgot which year, there was a push to make the Apple TV a console. Arcade support, controller compatibility, it all shipped. You can plug in an Apple TV and pair an Xbox controller right now and play a surprisingly large number of AAA and indie games, from Resident Evil VIII to Slay the Spire. It was too little too late, though. Most games are played on phones, and the console market is falling apart. Microsoft seems to be pulling out, Sony is basically shipping locked-down gaming PCs with a couple of exclusive games. Nintendo is holding course more or less, but their main value propositions are simplicity and first-party exclusivity, and phones already ate the first half of that.
RankingMember•44 minutes ago
As someone who used to be into console gaming but has been out basically since the PS2, this is an interesting summation of the current state of things. Do you have any color you'd add with regard to the Steam Machine and its potential?
bsimpson•27 minutes ago
Video games are still video games. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft are still the main platforms.

Microsoft is trying to reason about how gaming fits into their computer-centric empire. They've been using the Xbox brand for a new gamepad shell in Windows, for their cloud gaming subscription service, and for the gaming section of the Windows Store.

Steam has built the most popular computer game download service. They're renowned for having sales - you can get the Arkham Trilogy for $5 with some regularity when it would cost you $30 on Nintendo's eShop. It's a meme that most Steam users end up impulse-buying hundreds of cheap games and only playing dozens of them.

Microsoft and Sony have both bought a lot of previously-independent game studios. They've often let them continue publishing on other platforms. For instance, Sony's Spider-Man games are also available on Steam.

There are rumors that amid Microsoft's clusterfuck of an Xbox strategy, the next Xbox is going to share a lot of infrastructure with Windows, including the ability to play Windows games. This has spooked Sony into pulling its new titles from Steam - they don't want people buying an Xbox to play Spider-Man games.

stackskipton•35 minutes ago
As someone with a Steam Machine, somewhat low potential. It has a console like experience but not everything in the store supports it. It's open then other things but there are plenty of multiplayer games that refuse to support it due to Anti Cheat.

It feels like R&D project that Steam is doing so in case Microsoft gets really aggressive and locks down Windows 11 to point that Steam no longer works, they have fallback option.

4rtem•27 minutes ago
Not an person you're address your question for, but I would say that Steam Machine is a thing Valve released as an addition to their library. Average Steam user has a library for a few hundred of dollars, he can buy a console that guaranteed to has games on it. Its potential depends on PC gaming overall which is bright as people still buying PCs and love to play games on it.
alwaysthiserror•14 minutes ago
Steam Machine owner here! As of like three weeks ago.

The Steam Machine's biggest problem in general: it's launching into a headwind, because of hardware shortages. It should have been like $650-$700 for the base model, instead it's $1100ish.

The Steam Machine's biggest strength, overall: the Steam library. Absolutely massive.

The Steam Machine's nerd-gamer appeal: you can also run emulators, use it as a desktop, and play games from other stores (Epic, GOG, et c.). Nb this all comes with a big asterisk, as you're very much into non-console-like operation with any of this—I had to intervene with Heroic's installation of The Outer Worlds (from Epic) once to get it running with functioning cutscenes, which took me probably 30 minutes including a lot of trawling Reddit and forums to figure out the most-recent version of Proton that would work [I doubt I found the most-recent one, but I did find one more-recent than the first suggestion I saw], and then again on about my fourth play session when an update caused it to misplace its own saves (my only indication was all the saves had disappeared—they hadn't moved, it just wasn't finding them there anymore) for some reason, which I doubt would have happened on for-real Windows, and also any time it has an update available it silently fails to launch until it's updated, but I'm not notified of this until I re-start Heroic itself. This is some real computer-gaming and Linuxy bullshit (which is to say, it sucks and wastes your time) not a console experience. Still a benefit that it's there, but comes with a caveat that someone who just wants it as a console won't/can't/shouldn't engage with any of this.

Where the Steam Machine struggles as a console: Yes, it has tons of games available from many, many consoles of multiple generations, running natively (not emulated console games—though, mostly through proton, but Wine Is Not [an] Emulator), including very recent games, giving it a library that dwarfs that of any (... non-"hacked") console. HOWEVER:

1) Couch multiplayer sucks. Very few PC-first games include it, and a lot of console ports will have had it removed (since, who local-multiplayers on a PC now that the Internet is widespread? That hasn't been a normal feature for PC games since, like, the DOS era). If you want lots of couch multiplayer options you're gonna need to deal with console emulation (and I can tell you, bluetooth pairing is better on here than most Linux systems I've thrown together, but it's still bluetooth pairing under linux... hope you like either cords, or headaches) most likely, not just playing Steam games, at which point you're outside the space of treating the Steam Machine like a normal console and into wrestling with a computer.

2) Parental controls basically don't exist. You can have restricted-library child accounts after you jump through some very annoying hoops ("sorry, this just-created kid's account seems to be in another country from the family you're adding it to, based on its purchase activity... which doesn't exist, there has been no purchase activity")... but there's no PIN-locking, anyone can just use anyone else's account unless you want to log all the hell the way out every time you use it. It's a total joke compared to a Switch or PS5, neither of which are, themselves, exactly amazing at this. In short, its account management is tacked-on crap, they do not adequately-well support having multiple people using one of these, even if you don't factor in the various ways a person could get around it on account of the thing actually being a fairly ordinary Linux OS.

Where the Steam Machine struggles as a gaming PC: Hope you don't love playing the very-latest online multiplayer games. Odds are pretty good you'll be excluded by anti-cheat.

This leaves it a damn nice device for, almost exclusively: 1) people like me, a (to put it mildly) power-user who can benefit from its more computer-like aspects while also appreciating just putting it in its default Steam-only environment and relaxing, and who doesn't give a damn about online multiplayer, AND who can afford it; and 2) people who want to treat it as a console and play almost exclusively local single-player games (and have some money burning a hole in their pocket)... and this'll probably only be a great use-case if they already have a largish steam library, since otherwise their needs are likely covered by a Playstation or X-Box and starting from scratch on a steam machine with no owned games won't be very appealing. Which means it's kinda only a great deal for people in this category who were also already PC gamers.

That's a pretty small market of ideal customers, IMO. I'm rooting for the thing overall but I'd hesitate to recommend it to most gamers.

bigyabai•33 minutes ago
The new Steam Machine is a horse of a different color. Unlike AppleTV, the hardware supports the same Proton compatibility layer that people know and love on Steam Deck. The majority of Windows-only titles on Steam run without issue, making the Linux experience quite tolerable.

Apple's policy on macOS, iOS and tvOS is to prioritize native ports at all cost. The difference in compatibility is thousandfold; even games that have native ARM/Mac builds like Cyberpunk 2077, Death Stranding and No Man's Sky only work on macOS and not iOS/tvOS.

The Steam Machine will probably still flop, but Apple's failure vis-a-vis making gaming work is self-inflicted.

thaumasiotes•29 minutes ago
> Nintendo is holding course more or less, but their main value propositions are simplicity and first-party exclusivity, and phones already ate the first half of that.

Someone at Nintendo had the genius idea of charging you a subscription fee for internet access.

So, you can play Pokemon Champions on a Switch 2 for $35 / year, or you can play it on your phone, which has an internet connection outside Nintendo's control, for free.

Nintendo's value proposition really seems to be "we will screw you as hard as we can, and we hope you like that".

Narishma•6 minutes ago
> Someone at Nintendo had the genius idea of charging you a subscription fee for internet access.

Microsoft had that 'genius' idea with the original Xbox. The others saw that people will indeed pay for such a thing and copied the idea with the PS4 and Switch.

bsimpson•26 minutes ago
They all do this. Sony charges for PlayStation online too.

It's not good, but it's not just Nintendo. In fact, Nintendo is the most reasonably priced.

jldugger•26 minutes ago
It's really not much different than PSN or Xbox Live, so I don't think it's fair to say that Nintendo "had" the idea.
tancop•about 1 hour ago
Developers need to optimize and debug their game for each console. Xbox/PS are completely different platforms (UWP vs heavily customized BSD) so fixes don't transfer over. Adding another incompatible target with new store guidelines and system APIs adds a lot of work so Apple would have a hard time convincing them.

Now add the perception that Mac users don't play games and Apple devices are made for people already in their ecosystem. The only way they could gain market share is competing with Steam Machine as a more open platform, but without a giant library of existing games.

honkycat•about 1 hour ago
My Macbook Pro is my favorite emulator machine, and CrossOver is incredibly good at running most of the games I want to play.

OSX has also recently released a proton-style compat layer so we are seeing gains there as well.

For a long time Apple was outright AGAINST games. They wanted their machines to be for musicians and artists, not bratty kids.

bigyabai•28 minutes ago
Apple is still against games. Next year they'll remove Rosetta 2, and all the games that require it will stop working. There's no upcoming Vulkan drivers, or upstream support for Proton. CrossOver is expensive and incomplete.

The best gaming hardware will always be the hardware you keep on you; be it a phone, GameBoy, or a Mac. macOS is basically last-place in supporting PC gaming though, and Apple has no qualms letting it die again.

Mootikins•about 1 hour ago
I think this is a multifaceted problem: - Apple TVs as they currently are can run RetroArch and some other more demanding games just fine, though not at full 4K - Game engine developers (Unity, Unreal are most notable) work very hard to add optimization tools for mainline consoles, and Apple has only recently started to really bolster this with the GPTK (game porting toolkit) and more Metal/GPU focus - Ouya and other similar Android standalone boxes have been underpowered for years, and the AI hardware inflation will make this segment harder to get into
tclancy•26 minutes ago
Google tried this with Stadia. I was a pretty happy user of it, but I think it probably exposed the weakness of US bandwidth/ throughput. Still trying to find what to do with the two controllers but it was the best refund experience I've gone through and Google probably regrets setting my expectations like that.
chocochunks•about 1 hour ago
Consoles come with a controller and enough storage to be usable for games. The largest Apple TV 4K is 128GB and it's really common for games to easily be 50+ GB or even considerably more. 100 GB is not even that uncommon anymore (e.g., Call of Duty, FF7 Rebirth, Baldur's Gate 3).

When Apple first launched the Apple TV game store they required games be playable with the horrible remote. Understandably even games that would have been fine on the hardware didn't bother and while Apple later relented and allowed games to require a controller it's still an extra purchase that's needed.

hypercube33•41 minutes ago
Call of duty is kicking close to 500GB to 1TB depending what you have installed.

That said, I think the hardware is totally capable they just don't have a layer to run win32 or Linux apps natively (like proton for m series) so they'd have to commit to what valve is doing for linux, for macos

turtlebits•about 1 hour ago
A pro device is going to be expensive. Non gamers won't buy it, let alone $60+ games.
iAMkenough•about 1 hour ago
A walled garden living room appliance that allows you to purchase a revokable digital license to download games only through the manufacturer's store?

Apple TV, PS and Xbox all meet that definition. I'm not following what you're pitching…

honkycat•about 1 hour ago
there is the steam machine but from my experience it is a matter of hardware drivers and support.

Steam Machine is GREAT. But it still has warts around controller support etc...

Also, a lot of AAA games do not work on steam machine because of aggressive anticheat and DRM, and those vendors don't provide Linux builds. No spyware, no game.

The software for the UI just isn't there for Windows machines. There have been attempts but it is always janky and you end up pulling out a keyboard anyway.

Devs are afraid of piracy so they like the walled garden. They don't want emulators running because then they have to compete with the 90s-2015 era which is the golden age of gaming, and their newer games don't stack up ( except in graphics ). Nintendo doesn't want to compete with Mario Kart Double Dash on the Switch 2.

Also: Modern PCs absolutely MOG the Switch 2 and Xbox. The games are all in the same engines and cross-platform anyway, so piracy ends up useful.

sergiotapia•20 minutes ago
Also PS5 Emulation is advancing at an insane pace. https://x.com/BrutalSam_/status/2104554823240860065
smith7018•12 minutes ago
There's also a Switch emulator that's being made for the PS5 that's a port of Eden. It's called ProsperoEden and can already run some games [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXGiTuSAZ5o

torben-friis•13 minutes ago
Is the emulation layer thin enough for a non-stupidly specced computer to run stuff? Or is this more of a theoretical/advancing for the future thing?
OroPla•42 minutes ago
If this lets you install Linux that would be neat.

Unfortunately holding the PS5 controller gives me crippling pain in my wrists and it also doesn't have any games I care about, but if it could become a Linux media PC, you've got my attention. Especially once its price drops due to the next gen coming out.

AdmiralAsshat•38 minutes ago
> Unfortunately holding the PS5 controller gives me crippling pain in my wrists and it also doesn't have any games I care about

Juice might not be worth the squeeze, but have you tried one of their Access controllers?

https://www.amazon.com/Access-Controller-PlayStation-5-Gamin...

alightsoul•about 1 hour ago
Will Linux on the ps5 be back?
app13•about 1 hour ago
God I hope so. Some of my fondest professional memories were my early Navy days, hacking together PS3's into a big ol cluster

Edit: Reading through the exploit, looks like linux compatability for older (non 13.6) is possible. 13.6 needs a new hypervisor exploit.

hexagonsun•about 1 hour ago
this is a kernel level exploit and afaik ps5 linux requires full hypervisor... so not yet, but probably soon.
alightsoul•about 1 hour ago
Is there any reason why we need the ps5 software? Is the processor locked to it? Is there a security microcontroller which needs it?

Edit looks like the answer for both questions is yes

latchkey•about 1 hour ago
just get a bc-250...
mococa•21 minutes ago
Cool, now we can have disks again :-)
system2•about 1 hour ago
If sony released jailbroken ps5 I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Unsure why they do not let us use it as much as we can. They would definitely sell more.
ErneX•34 minutes ago
They don’t make much money (if any) selling hardware.
avgDev•26 minutes ago
Sony is barely making money on PS5 hardware.
jiveturkey•about 1 hour ago
they aren't in the business of selling consoles (duh). they are in the business of selling games. jailbroken consoles can run pirated games ...

consoles are sold at a loss, best information i can dig up is that this is still true today, even after all the volume.

cubefox•34 minutes ago
> This project is intended for educational and security research purposes only. It does not endorse piracy, unauthorized access, or misuse of commercial devices.

Sure, "education". Releasing exploits for software vulnerabilities has very little to do with education. The relation to piracy is clear however.

throw101010•15 minutes ago
The irony of posting something like this on HACKER News of all places must have escaped you... this term is tightly related to breaking hardware/software systems apart to understand them and it is very common to share your findings.

What people decide to do with them is on them, and fixing the exploits would be on the manufacturer if they care about this so-called "piracy".

CursedSilicon•15 minutes ago
Pirates don't usually bother hacking consoles. It's easier for them to just bypass the security on the disc drive. That's why we had "mod chips" for decades
Muromec•9 minutes ago
Don't clog the liability sink pls
mccoyb•23 minutes ago
Are you against accessing hardware that you own?