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#microsoft#windows#don#wireguard#account#software#got#malice#more#support

Discussion (164 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

zx2c43 days ago
As I mentioned in the mailing list post, the Microsoft paperwork shuffling matter got dealt with rather quickly, following all the attention the HN thread from the other day got. And now we're finally out with an update!

NT programming is a lot of fun, though this release was quite challenging, because of all of the toolchain updates. On the plus side, we got to remove pre-Win10 support -- https://lists.zx2c4.com/pipermail/wireguard/2026-March/00954... . But did you know that Microsoft removed support for compiling x86 drivers in their latest driver SDK? So that was interesting to work around. There was also a fun change to the Go runtime included in this release: https://github.com/golang/go/commit/341b5e2c0261cc059b157f1c...

All and all, a fun release, and I'm happy to have the Windows release train cooking again.

sammy22553 days ago
Good to know everything was resolved, but did you ever find out why your signing account was suspended? That's not something you brush off as haha silly Microsoft..
SturgeonsLaw3 days ago
Microsoft are saying it's because those accounts didn't undergo verification for the Windows Hardware Program

https://www.theregister.com/2026/04/09/microsoft_dev_account...

walrus013 days ago
I understand it's because it's a device driver, but why should a pure software publisher which has no hardware product of any sort be required to go through a "hardware program" gatekeeper of what binaries a person can choose to install and run on their own computer?
LtdJorge2 days ago
> No emails, no warnings, no humans – just bots, catch-22s, and a 60-day appeals queue

Hmmm

j452 days ago
If a provider wants to be in the identity business, I don't understand why it has to be tied to a piece of hardware.

Security and attribution is great, but the default assumption of everyone will sign up and do what we want doesn't work.

Xunjin3 days ago
They should definitely put up a statement addressing it. Moreover what they plan in the future to avoid such traumatic event, this is not a “simple sign program”, this touches fundamental parts of the OS.
Leherenn3 days ago
Apparently it's quite widespread, so I would assume a bug on their side. That's what support seemed to imply at least. We're still blocked at my company for one month+ now.
fhn3 days ago
With Microsoft, I assume malice AND negligence first. The hostility they've shown toward their own users tells you everything you need to know.
PeterStuer3 days ago
"so I would assume a bug on their side"

Why a "bug".

BLKNSLVR3 days ago
Off topic: Thanks for wireguard. It is a truly great piece of software.
walrus013 days ago
The broader general problem is that it should not be necessary to attempt amplification of a message via HN or X or other platforms to get a company to have a real human pay attention to something, and write a hand crafted response.

This seems to increasingly be the norm with people who have had their accounts locked, deleted or restricted by automated systems. You have to hope that you can write a message and get it amplified via some sort of platform read by hundreds of thousands of people, and get people to reshare your message, in order to get any form of traction.

If you're not somebody well known, noteworthy or somehow significant in a community your likelihood of having your message successfully amplified is much lower.

e12e3 days ago
Somewhat on the side - but is there a wireguard that works well for ReactOS? Does the windows version just work fine?

Just curious how/if the version support might work out for ReactOS.

zx2c43 days ago
Good question! I've never tried. The NT driver makes use of some of the more advanced features of the networking stack, so possibly not. But you never know. I'd love a Wg4React.
EvanAnderson3 days ago
ReactOS was, at one time, targeting a Windows Server 2003-level of compatibility. With that in mind I can't imagine current Wireguard would have even a shred of hope of working on ReactOS.
EvanAnderson3 days ago
I really appreciate what you wrote in that post re: dropping support for pre-Windows 10 operating systems.
rkagerer3 days ago
I'd like to snag that latest previous version which still has compatibility with older OS's, anyone have a reliable link handy?

(I couldn't quickly find a "Previous Versions" list on their website)

chenxiaolong3 days ago
It looks like all the old files are still hosted on the server. You can just replace the version number in the download links with one of the tags from https://git.zx2c4.com/wireguard-windows.
unquietwiki3 days ago
Hey there, thank you for pushing this out. I saw there's a 0.6.1 update now, that also reboots the machine after updating. I don't remember if it said it'd do said reboot...
pseudohadamard2 days ago
Just updated and it didn't reboot, just displayed an error-looking alert that the manager was already running.
worble3 days ago
> following all the attention the HN thread from the other day got

That's great for you, and no offense, but what about developers who can't get buzz in a HN thread? Are they just doomed? Why is support only available to those who can raise a ruckus on social media?

politelemon3 days ago
Your work is always appreciated.
c0l03 days ago
As a wireguard user myself (even on the lone Windows machine that I still begrundingly have), I am happy that this problem could have been resolved. I am just wondering - if there had not been this kind of public outcry and outrage that Mr. Donenfeld discounts in his announcement message, would the issue have been fixed by now?

What are individual developers of "lesser" (less important, less visible, less used) software with a Windows presence to do? Wait and pray for Goliath to make the first benevolent move, like all the folks who got locked out forever from their Google accounts on a whim? Ha!

The fact of the matter is, the code signing requirements on Windows are a serious threat to Free and Open Source Software on the platform. Code signing requirements are a threat to FOSS on all platforms that support this technique, and infinitely more so where it's effectively mandatory. I firmly believe that these days, THIS is the preferred angle/vector for Microsoft to kill the software variety their C-levels once publicly bad-mouthed as "cancer", and zx2c4 is one of the poor frogs being slowly boiled alive. Just not this time - yet.

sillysaurusx3 days ago
They would be ignored. Having an audience is key to getting problems solved, whether it’s a lone hacker or a large corporation. Without an audience, you have no leverage. At that point you might as well create a new Windows account and re-apply, since that would have more luck than getting around a “we’ve closed your account and there’s no appeal process” barrier.

If that sounds Kafkaesque, it is. It’s a small miracle that getting a post to the top of HN can surmount such bureaucracy at all.

The best way to get an audience is to tell a compelling story. Make it interesting. There are ways of doing that for even the least known developers.

My point is to push back against the idea that it should be fair to everyone and that what’s morally right should prevail in every case. The hardware developer program doesn’t exist to treat every developer fairly. They exist to make money for Microsoft. pg puts it more eloquently here: https://paulgraham.com/judgement.html

elcritch3 days ago
It makes me think tech communities need to lobby for more laws to ensure fair access to platforms, app stores, etc. Be that at least side loading apps, etc.

Otherwise we’ll eventually all get lost in the kafkaesque technocracies.

Less for moral reading, but to keep from being squashed by the weight of tech.

fsflover2 days ago
This is why orgs like https://eff.org exist.
pixl972 days ago
>tech communities need to lobby for more laws to ensure fair access to platforms

I'm surprised someone didn't reply saying this would affect the freedom of companies to do whatever they want, whenever they want.

x0x03 days ago
I got a modestly-similar situation resolved by buying a support package and spending 4+ hours across ... not sure, but probably 4-5 support calls? It's been 5 years. If memory serves it was the $200/mo support package for Azure.

In retrospect, I should have not spent 3 weeks trying to get their incompetent software to work and just gone straight to phone calls. And at least in my case, the support agents seemed broadly unfamiliar, but seemed to have access to higher-priority internal case submission which did finally get to someone who could fix my issue.

NetMageSCW3 days ago
While this is a small problem for software (and hardware) that needs custom kernel drivers, or software that needs to run as administrator, you seem to have jumped a long way past that to rant about FOSS on Windows with no justification- general unsigned software works just fine on Windows as it always has.
c0l02 days ago
"works just fine on Windows as it always has" is just not true. These days, I cannot even run my own cross-compiled Go executables of a cross-platform tool that I am developing in private on Windows 10 or 11, because some blue popup from Windows Defender/"SmartScreen" prevents me from doing so, and tells me to contact the software publisher if I'd like to be able to do something about it. Outright disabling Defender/SmartScreen works around the problem (but the popup doesn't tell me that), and, presumably, signing these executables with a "trusted" developer certificate would make this outcome less probable - that is at least what people online have been telling me.

In my book (I started using computers during ther Windows 3.0 era), this clearly does not qualify as "working just fine on Windows as it always has", no matter how you spin it.

noAnswer1 day ago
Do you download the cross-compiled executable via http or smb to the Windows machine? If so than it most likely got earmarked with a NTFS alternate data stream.

File Settings > This file come from another computer: Unblock

PowerShell > Unblock-File

Add your smb file share as trusted: Internet Properties > Security > Local Intranet > Sites

I hate it too that you need to sign software that you want to publish. Totally destroys the economics of little shareware type software.

Nevermark2 days ago
Individual-level ethics and respect are being dispensed with en masse. The excuse being that these companies operate "at scale".

But last time I checked, they are taking money from individuals. Or otherwise encouraging individuals to use their services.

So this lack of respect for individuals by specific large companies, is predicated on their encouraging users to trust them, and depend on them, without taking on any of the implied responsibility to not capriciously ruin someone's day or year. And then hard or soft stone wall them.

As someone who nearly lost everything due to the automated bureaucracy of a financial firm, I cannot stress: We are not safe. And we will not be safe until these companies are legally required to treat customer investment and dependency on their services, as valuable and necessarily recoverable, via prompt recourse and response, in cases where the automated bureaucratic systems fail.

Otherwise, this is going to keep getting worse.

When I hear how Microsoft helps someone who got attention, what I hear is that it takes extraordinary circumstances for Microsoft to care about the significant harm that there systems are causing many other people, today, who did not have the luck of this person.

And that they are very very aware of this.

I think we need to start using the word evil for this. Because it is. It is gross irresponsibility. Gross abuse of a power situation, of a strong dependency, that the company quite knowingly creates.

donmcronald2 days ago
Software distribution is largely controlled by 3 companies; Microsoft, Google, and Apple. We used to have the web and web apps as an escape hatch, but, surprise, all 3 of those companies use a shared “safe” browsing blacklist that can be used to wipe your domain / website out of existence. Mozilla participates by using the same list which is a shame.

Big tech shouldn’t be allowed to control the platforms and the ability to distribute / blacklist software and sites. That needs to be legislated against and those companies need to be broken into a thousand pieces each.

Nevermark2 days ago
Agreed.

The strong gatekeeping, the encouragement of vital dependency (i.e. treating user/customer data, email, content as if it were the company's, even to the point of cutting access without recourse), the dark pattern upsells, unpermissioned or dark permissioned surveillance, manipulation, the hosting of pervasive scam ads (even Apple News is full of scam ads), ...

None of this should be acceptable. All these ethical violations degrade the lives of countless individuals in the name of "freedom" for corporations.

Conflicts of interest and anticompetitiveness should not be "free" in either sense of the word.

balamatom2 days ago
>I think we need to start using the word evil for this. Because it is. It is gross irresponsibility. Gross abuse of a power situation, of a strong dependency, that the company quite knowingly creates.

Oh wow, good morning.

The parties which taught you the notion of "individual" (by defining you as such, and coercive-conditioning all other models out of you), all happen to be collectives: your family, your society, the institutions, the businesses' communication departments. They have the power of definition. An individual (by definition) does not.

It only gets worse from there.

For what purpose are you made "individual"? Collectives define you as "individual", in order to make you defenseless. Individuals have the useful property of being trapped within an infinite recursion of false "selves"; collectives, on the other hand, are neatly self-reifying. They do not have the organ of inhibition (pre-frontal cortex).

In the eyes of the state, corporations are something like artificial people, right? Alright, model them as legally constructed psychopaths out to get you - how to perform extralegal direct intervention upon 'em, same way they can do to us? It's only fair... wait no you can't! You'd only be hurting their constituent individuals. And you can't hurt them nearly as bad as whatever made them join the collective in the first place; it would not only be pointless but also cruel.

This notion of "individual" which lies at the center of Western individualism (and the related schools of thought which implicitly form your day-to-day behaviors in society, no reflection necessary) is an extremely fraught concept: look at it a little too intently and it begins to fall apart at the seams.

Making you see yourself as this thing called "individual", which is extensively studied with most rigorous methods, and somehow remains fundamentally inscrutable (hard problem of consciousness goes wheee!)... that's not very unlike a proprietary API or OS, is it? "Individual identity" is a useful (to whom?) abstraction over the incontrovertible, but by itself meaningless, physical being of a human organism. Unlike a collective, a body cannot be divided into constituent parts and remain itself; but Western civilization is nominally a world of minds over bodies, and minds are made out of ideas, and ideas can be taken apart and shared around just fine, within one body or among entire crowds.

So what we are observing is not evil; "evil" has meaning in the plane of independent individuals operating in mutually comprehensible moral framing. And that's always been a huge and harmful oversimplifiction.

It's much easier to view the behavior of transnational corporations as a whole as the AGI takeoff. But then one might want to consider when exactly it started - was it the LLMs that precipitated it (as many here seem to think), or is the concept of "artificial intelligence" itself a marketing smokescreen, and the NN/ML/LLM tech is just an inevitable performance optimization once the AGI has embedded itself deeply enough into human industry to direct resources towards the mass production of GPUs and other highly specialized accelerator cells.

golem143 days ago
Since the impact of the account is presumably known to Microsoft (through telemetry etc), they probably know when these accounts get turned off, and can mark them in case the owner comes back and tries recovery.

Microsoft would not have to automatically and 100% correctly reinstate the account. The goal would be to get high level cases like this one in front of a knowledgable human before the locked account posts angry owner posts complaints in public (If Joe Bloe's defragmentation utility noone has ever heard of and only having 10 installs goes bad, noone would care.)

Here, they don't have to be perfect - you just need to have enough signal-to-voice ratio that employing a very small number of people outweighs the cost to PR and execs to deal with these cases, and to not let accounts get hacked through recovery.

The response from Microsoft [1] is not great, or makes me hopeful.

``` Pavan Davuluri, Microsoft's President of Windows and Devices, said both Idrassi and Donenfeld should have their accounts restored "soon."

"We've seen these reports and are actively working to resolve this as quickly as possible," Davuluri Xeeted. "We've reached out to VeraCrypt and have spoken to Jason at WireGuard, they should be back up and running soon."

He explained that both deactivations were executed as part of the Windows Hardware Program's account verification procedures.

The company published a blog in October, giving devs a two-week warning that if their accounts had not been verified since April 2024, Microsoft would issue mandatory account verification notifications.

"We worked hard to make sure partners understood this was coming, from emails, banners, reminders," said Davuluri.

"And we know that sometimes things still get missed. We're taking this as an opportunity to review how we communicate changes like this and make sure we're doing it better."

```

[1] https://www.theregister.com/2026/04/09/microsoft_dev_account...

drewfax2 days ago
> make sure partners understood this

Since when they were partners to Micro$lop? First, it's thug like behavior taking the ability to run code on our own computers without their approval. Second it's even more evil justifying this behaviour by calling the developers "partners".

Root_Denied2 days ago
The reality is that unless and until the PR hit from failures like this impact their stock price or their bottom line, companies won't care to fix the processes that created them.
golem141 day ago
I don't know it's that clear cut. A constant drip of bad stories does hurt the reputation over time, and it's hard to get it back.

But I agree - in the moment, the impact is barely visible, so management would have to put up a fight to spend $$$ on a fix. The way of least resistance is to issue a press release as shown above.

donmcronald2 days ago
It could be dead simple. Lock the account, but let the owner temporarily unlock it for X days so they have enough time to undergo verification.
looneysquash3 days ago
But what would have happened if they weren't able to get Microsoft's attention through an outside channel (this site) and had to go through the normal process?

I'm glad it was resolved quickly for WireGuard, but I'm concerned the results won't generalize.

Also, thanks for WireGuard!

aaronmdjones3 days ago
> and had to go through the normal process?

There is no normal process. The error message clearly states "There are no appeals available, we have closed your application".

If the company makes it impossible for you to communicate with them, the only recourse is to draw public attention to it in order to shame them. This only works if you can gather enough public support and kick up enough of a stink about it. All of the small developers still locked out of their accounts are screwed.

wpollock2 days ago
> If the company makes it impossible for you to communicate with them, the only recourse is to draw public attention to it in order to shame them.

Legal action works too. You'd be surprised how effective a letter from an attorney can be.

Xiaoher-C1 day ago
The code-signing problem on Windows is fundamentally asymmetric. WireGuard survived because it was visible enough that losing signing became embarrassing for Microsoft. Most projects aren't. They just quietly stop working and nobody notices except the users.

This situation got fixed because of an HN thread. That's a terrible way to maintain software infrastructure. You shouldn't need to go viral to keep your project running on a major OS.

The underlying problem isn't going away unless there's either regulatory pressure or a credible community attestation model that bypasses the single-CA trust structure. Microsoft has no obvious incentive to build that themselves.

maltris3 days ago
LibreOffice, VeraCrypt, WireGuard. 2 questions:

Whats next?

Is that a pattern?

donmcronald2 days ago
> Whats next?

I think Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc. are happy with the collateral damage caused by false positives and bad product decisions. And the way they implemented this was a bad product decision.

Think about it. If they "accidentally" destroy distribution for small projects that don't have the visibility to make waves, that's fewer possible startups that can eat their lunch. The cynic in me thinks that "at scale", "AI false positives", etc. are just an excuse for them to eliminate small developers.

They don't have to ban them all either. All they have to do is increase the risk to the point where rational people won't take the risk.

There were people that warned not to get into iOS development because it was impossible to guarantee distribution of an app. How do you build things like LoB apps under those circumstances? And who benefits when it's impossible to promise delivery of custom built apps? It favors big companies with the visibility to short circuit the system.

It's asymmetric rules; one set for big companies and another for small developers. I really hope the renewed interest in Linux takes off because it's the last chance we have at holding off big tech from taking over every little aspect of our lives.

baobabKoodaa3 days ago
Was the issue resolved for VeraCrypt as well?
Lihh273 days ago
yeah three projects, one account lock, everyone's users stop getting updates. that's the pattern
direwolf203 days ago
And Windscribe
ChocolateGod3 days ago
What has LibreOffice got to do with any of this?
quantum_magpie3 days ago
MS has a history of fucking up LibreOffice installs.

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/General/General_Inst...

elAhmo3 days ago
I am sure this is by accident, MS would never try to discourage users from installing free alternatives to their offerings.
Terr_3 days ago
Perhaps this from last year, though it doesn't directly involve code-signing: https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-bans-libreoffice-devel...
IvyMike3 days ago
everdrive3 days ago
An interesting point I don't think I've seen someone make -- people compare the LLM revolution to other technical revolutions. You don't need to worry about skill decay in the same way that you don't know how to bake bread from unprocessed wheat, or you don't know how to build a loom, etc.

But local models aside (which no matter the protests from HN, will only be available to the technically savvy few) all of these LLMs are a service, so, the company could degrade the service, they could charge more than you're willing or able to pay, they could ban you. They could disable your account with no meaningful way appeal or seek support. LLMs could look at lot more like the scenario in this thread than something like not knowing how to make your own shoes.

kbelder3 days ago
It might settle into a situation where cutting edge LLMs are a service, while older and smaller LLMs are self-hosted. So you are not at risk of being cut off, but of being degraded.
donmcronald2 days ago
I hope you're right. I played around with a bunch of AI stuff recently and that's kind of the conclusion I came to. Use local AI for mission critical stuff, if you're confident in that, and use the SOTA models for reviewing.

Tap the latest general knowledge for asking "could this be improved", but make the improvements with local systems and models. But then the obvious problem becomes finding new data to train the AIs. In my opinion, there's no way their plan doesn't involve stealing from everyone to keep training, so is it really going to be safe to use the cutting edge models at all?

donmcronald2 days ago
If they manage to build good memory systems, people will stop keeping personal docs and rely on the “AI” for everything. Imagine 20 years from now when people don’t even have copies of the recipe to bake bread and then you’ll see what the goal is.
throwaway2902 days ago
And then in future if you try to build something to reverse the situation your coding llm becomes stupid and your psychologist llm recommends you some blue pills.
kuzivaai2 days ago
The "minimum supported Windows version" ratchet is underrated as a maintenance strategy. I've watched codebases drown in compatibility shims that nobody remembers why they exist. Curious how much of the driver size reduction came from dropping pre-Win10 support versus the toolchain updates.
manbash3 days ago
Happy to see it resolved and I hope the other developers are able to have the same experience.

By the way, was it only for the Windows application, or was wireguard-go was also affected?

zx2c43 days ago
This was just for WireGuardNT, the kernel driver for the NT kernel that Windows uses.

This project -- https://git.zx2c4.com/wireguard-nt/about/ -- is used by this app -- https://git.zx2c4.com/wireguard-windows/about/ . The former is what the signing situation was about. The latter is just signed using a normal boring (but very expensive!) EV code signing certificate from one of the CAs.

Aurornis3 days ago
There was a lot of speculation about this issue because readers assumed that WireGuard's was the only account that got locked. There was actually a wave of account locks that happened at the same time. If you only saw one of the headlines you might assume it was targeted or the result of some directed conspiracy, not the result of a widespread process.

Microsoft did a (very!) bad job of communicating what was happening, but The Register has more information:

> He explained that both deactivations were executed as part of the Windows Hardware Program's account verification procedures.

> The company published a blog in October, giving devs a two-week warning that if their accounts had not been verified since April 2024, Microsoft would issue mandatory account verification notifications.

> "We worked hard to make sure partners understood this was coming, from emails, banners, reminders," said Davuluri.

donmcronald2 days ago
> "We worked hard to make sure partners understood this was coming, from emails, banners, reminders," said Davuluri.

Emails are useless given the volume of trivial crap that MS emails about. Banners don't help for systems on auto-pilot. Reminders how?

Break my workflow and let me un-break it when I notice.

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IshKebab3 days ago
I don't think you can let them off that easily, given that the only effective support channel was "get to the front page of hacker news", which isn't usually an option.
john_strinlai3 days ago
>The comments that followed were a bit off the rails. There's no conspiracy here from Microsoft. But the Internet discussion wound up catching the attention of Microsoft, and a day later, the account was unblocked, and all was well. I think this is just a case of bureaucratic processes getting a bit out of hand, which Microsoft was able to easily remedy. I don't think there's been any malice or conspiracy or anything weird.

it was a bit crazy how quickly people got conspiracy-minded about it.

microsoft fucked up, and as per typical big-tech, only fixed it when noise got made on social media. but not everything is a grand conspiracy orchestrated by microsoft or the government or whatever. incompetence is always more likely than malice.

any news from the veracrypt maintainers? i would imagine whatever microsoft employee got tasked with resolving this issue would have also seen that one.

---

edit: well, i certainly underestimated the response to this comment. my mistake for using a common saying rather than being extremely explicit when it comes to something as emotionally charged as microsoft. i dont think i have seen a comment of mine go up and down points so many times before.

what i intended to get across was: "this was not a deliberate, coordinated, purposeful attack on the wireguard project, at the behest of some microsoft executive, to accomplish some goal of making encrypted communication impossible or whatever. instead, this was the result of a stupid system, with a stupid resolution process (social media), that is still awful, but different in important ways from a deliberate attack. this is the typical scenario (stupid system, stupid resolution). the non-typical scenario would be a deliberate choice made and executed by microsoft employees to suddenly destroy a popular project".

i shortened the above paragraph to the common saying "incompetence is always more likely than malice". i shouldnt have. my bad.

anonymous9082133 days ago
> incompetence is always more likely than malice.

"Incompetence" of this degree is malice. It is actively malicious to create a system that automatically locks people out of their accounts with absolutely no possibility for human review or recourse short of getting traction in the media. "No sir, I didn't grind those orphans up. It was this orphan grinding machine I made that did it, teehee!"

john_strinlai3 days ago
i am positive that you understand the spirit of what that saying means.

incompetence is always more likely than [intentional, directed] malice.

microsoft employees did not deliberately attack the wireguard project with a goal of taking it down for whatever grand scheme people's hatred cooks up. if you have evidence that microsoft did this deliberately to ruin the wireguard project, please forward it along to jason (the wireguard maintainer) and several news outlets.

tialaramex3 days ago
Where possible I recommend not caring because figuring out whether malice was present is difficult and you can likely address a problem without needing to be sure.

For example by creating working processes which never end up "accidentally" causing awful outcomes. This is sometimes more expensive, but we should ensure that the resulting lack of goodwill if you don't is unaffordable.

Worst case there is malice and you've now made it more difficult to hide the malice so you've at least made things easier for those who remain committed to looking for malice, including criminal prosecutors.

acedTrex3 days ago
And the person you are responding is asserting that the response to incompetence of this level should be the SAME as if it directed and intentional malice. Which is a completely valid way to view a fuckup like this.
bronson3 days ago
And I'm positive that you understand the spirit of the post you're replying to.

The saying implies that incompetence and malice are polar opposites. They're not.

wtallis3 days ago
Microsoft's incompetence is certainly reckless at a minimum, and often manifests in ways that come across as misanthropic toward their users. They don't really fit the pattern of mere bumbling fools.
direwolf203 days ago
Malicious people are quite good at feigning incompetence.
izacus3 days ago
Except that the system that removes culpability, visibility and consequences of this kind of abuse is set up deliberately to avoid liability and consequences of such actions.

This isn't a tee-hee accident, this is deliberate organizational design which removed any kind of bad consequences or even thought about what the software does to user from the engineers at Microsoft. They're happy about that. They now don't need to deal with that. And if you'll ask them, they will refuse a change that will make them responsible for abuse of their users.

So, to hell with them :)

r14c3 days ago
I mean, sure, but at a certain point negligent incompetence is directly harmful and the motives or lack thereof are just context.
trinsic23 days ago
With the way things are going right now with all the corruption in governments and corporations were way past the point of giving the benefit of the doubt. These organizations are clearly making changes to their OS's to slowly remove user control.

Everything should be treat as suspicious moving forward and I am glad of the skepticism.

sscaryterry3 days ago
The question is, did they notify the user that the account was blocked, or was it done silently? My money is on the latter, obviously I don’t know, just my guess. Was there a reason? Blocked is semantically harsher, than it has been disabled.
billziss3 days ago
It was done silently. I am one of the affected developers and my software is the open source file system driver WinFsp:

https://github.com/winfsp/winfsp

Scaled3 days ago
Society is a bit fatigued of big tech companies making their various accounts essential and then locking people out of them without any due process.
john_strinlai3 days ago
yes, i am in agreement. i tried to be extremely clear in my edit that i think that the whole social media being the only way to get an account back is crazy stupid.
orbital-decay3 days ago
All this doesn't matter. What matters is the destructive potential and a breach of trust. CAs have been distrusted for less.
john_strinlai3 days ago
>CAs have been distrusted for less.

root programs are super specific about root cause analysis, what actions lead up to distrust, differentiating deliberate maliciousness from systemic incompetence, etc.

its like the exact opposite of "all this doesnt matter".

of course they still look at the outcome (danger to users, etc.), typically as a first step. but they take great care to determine exactly what lead up to a specific outcome.

orbital-decay3 days ago
It really depends on the scale of the breach, for example DigiNotar was immediately killed for their gross incompetence. In this case even the scale is unclear, with heavy suspicion towards malice and little hope on fixing any process inside that monstrous bureaucracy or even making it meaningfully care if it's not. I see no reason to trust Microsoft anymore, regardless of it being a fuckup or malice.
direwolf202 days ago
I think they meant a CA that acted like Microsoft would be distrusted. Not a CA that acted like WireGuard would be distrusted.
dec0dedab0de3 days ago
Microsoft lost the benefit of the doubt decades ago.
themafia3 days ago
Who needs conspiracy?

Microsoft has entitled itself to decide what I can and cannot run on the computer and OS that I paid for, this earns them no additional revenue, so they don't care to do a good job.

This system will never work properly.

TiredOfLife3 days ago
> it was a bit crazy how quickly people got conspiracy-minded about it.

That's just the side effect of the Soross tracking chips hidden in vaccines activated by 5g towers

BLKNSLVR3 days ago
Conspiracy 1: rules from on-high about encryption projects to be suppressed. Debunked.

Conspiracy 2: Copilot all the things! Probably not too far off.

john_strinlai3 days ago
i think they have explicitly made it clear that they want to copilot all of the things (unfortunately), so i dont quite file it under the conspiracy label.
wongarsu3 days ago
If it's not a conspiracy (and to be clear, I don't think it is one) its still a failure on multiple levels of the organisation

We can probably blame copilot for the email about new verification reqirements not going out to everyone. Maybe even for the reports of people who jumped through all the hoops and still got blocked as if they hadn't. But rolling out new verification reqirements, then not monitoring how many developers fulfill your new reqirements and following up is entirely on Microsoft employees. That's management failure and disregard for developers on their platform

swisniewski2 days ago
How big is the Wire Guard user base on Windows?

How often do they ship new versions?

My understanding is that:

1. Windows drivers are Attested by Microsoft

2. Windows collects driver telemetry

Which means a really good question to ask is:

Why are they canceling driver signing accounts without looking at metrics?

emj2 days ago
"it is only 0.01 promille of our customers" chopping off the long tail.
ekjhgkejhgk2 days ago
Could someone clarify, why do you need signing whatever to write software on Windows? Why can't you just write the software and run it? And when has this changed?
luckman2122 days ago
Would be great to see a fresh macOS App Store release. The current one (3+ years old) has a few sharp edges.
incompatible2 days ago
"The comments that followed were a bit off the rails. There's no conspiracy here from Microsoft. But the Internet discussion wound up catching the attention of Microsoft, and a day later, the account was unblocked, and all was well. I think this is just a case of bureaucratic processes getting a bit out of hand, which Microsoft was able to easily remedy. I don't think there's been any malice or conspiracy or anything weird."

Hopefully, this isn't just something Microsoft made them say as part of an agreement to get their account back.

donmcronald2 days ago
I would guess they realized they missed a notification or warning and feel a bit bad about the whole thing blowing up. Hopefully not though. The fact there were several high profile projects that got caught off guard puts the blame mostly on MS IMO.

I think the reason these things go viral is that a ton of people reading about them can see themselves in the same situation, minus the clout needed to get it resolved. A short term PR crisis is the best we can get, so everyone piles on.

I don't think MS will fix it though. IMO, they're more likely to create a program for open source code signing. That way they can capture all the high visibility projects, get a bunch of goodwill for being philanthropic, and all the small projects that don't qualify are too small to cause a fuss, so they can continue to treat them poorly.

globular-toast3 days ago
Why do people put so much effort into supporting a hostile platform? I really don't get it.
DarkUranium2 days ago
Monopolies.
redeeman3 days ago
and imagine for those guys that dont have the reach wireguard/veracrypt does.

NEVER trust microsoft, NEVER trust any mechanism people dont 100% control themselves. having to rely on microsoft to sign stuff is an abomination and something nobody should do

tamimio3 days ago
> I don't think there's been any malice or conspiracy or anything weird

Wink if there’s someone else in the room :)

Ms-J2 days ago
Could you give us an update on how everything was resolved?

I believe the transparency would be a huge plus.

This happened to Wireguard, Veracrypt, Windscribe, and possibly others. Certainly not isolated and very unnerving.

There are still many unanswered questions...

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shevy-java3 days ago
What's going on at Microsoft? Why did they suddenly declare war on VPN and related software projects?
direwolf203 days ago
Wouldn't comply with CIA backdoor requirements, but now they do ;)