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Discussion Sentiment

82% Positive

Analyzed from 4111 words in the discussion.

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#enlightenment#gnome#still#desktop#linux#kde#window#more#using#remember

Discussion (182 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

somat6 days ago
"Sadly, the hang was deterministic"

No, no, you rejoice, a deterministic bug is the best sort of bug. because now you have a test case and a solid method to know when it is fixed. The sad bugs are the ones you can't find a test case for.

I also got a bittersweet chuckle out of how the author considers it a lightweight environment, I mean, they are not wrong, but think of how far we have fallen when e, the ultimate bling desktop environment is considered lightweight.

BeetleB6 days ago
Back in the early 2000's, I used Enlightenment. I wouldn't have called it "lightweight", but it definitely was not heavy. It ran smoothly on my not-so-great-hardware. And definitely lighter than DEs like KDE/Gnome.

I stopped using it for other WMs. I remember how it was taking forever to release E17 and totally forgot about it. E16 was definitely awesome in those days.

ok1234565 days ago
I remember trying to use it and getting constant segfaults.
breton6 days ago
> because now you have a test case and a solid method to know when it is fixed.

And where is fun in that? Where are now the nights in trying to reproduce it? Where are the doubts in the moments of rest "have i really fixed it, or is it still there"? Boring.

azalemeth6 days ago
The author is 21 (which I find incredibly impressive) and is using a DE that was written when they were a baby.

It _is_ lightweight in that context. I also love the fact that XaoS knowledge is useful in the context of "real software" programming!

jasomill6 days ago
As someone who remembers E making the rounds among the BSD and Linux users in my college dorm when it first came out, there's no way he's only 21 if he was a baby in the late '90s.
Ixander6 days ago
From her "Short CV"

"Hello! I’m Kamila Szewczyk (iczelia). I am 21 years old. I’m an expert programmer and aspiring mathematician, primarily interested in compiler construction, data compression, esoteric languages, statistics and numerical algorithms. ... Currently I am a full-time student based in Germany." [1]

And the start of the post:

"The editor in chief of this blog was born in 2004. She uses the 1997 window manager, Enlightenment E16, daily."

[1] https://iczelia.net/cv/

edit: added the [1] at the end of the first quote

simonask6 days ago
The author's name is Kamilla. She was born in 2004 (according to the article).
tangus6 days ago
I guess they wanted to keep working on their slides (at least for the moment) and not be forced to go debugging. Sadly, the hang was deterministic, so they didn't have another option.
kdhaskjdhadjk6 days ago
But it is light weight. Fabulously so. The "bling" just comes from the ability to write theme files to customize the appearance of window decorations and menus. IIRC it was a fork of fvwm from way back in the day, and similarities can still be seen in the config files. I use it on everything including old 32-bit systems, and it's snappy and responsive everywhere.
kelnos6 days ago
GP means that 25 years ago, it was definitely not lightweight compared to many of the alternatives (GNOME and KDE being notable exceptions; I wouldn't have called them "light" back then either). Toady it's certainly light.
kdhaskjdhadjk6 days ago
Enlightenment up to e16 always was light weight. There was eye candy that could be enabled like transparent/wobbly windows and whatnot, which could drag down a weak system, along with the ability to add high resolution wallpaper that took up a lot of memory, etc, but the core of the window manager doesn't have any kind of bloat or slowness. It was always configurable to be snappy and low resource. Just like fvwm.
wvh6 days ago
This is a flash from an almost forgotten past. I'm happy people are still using and even improving Enlightenment.

I used to run Enlightenment in the late nineties and early 2000s, first by itself, then with Gnome bar. At some point Gnome turned hostile on power users and I switched to KDE, leaving also Enlightenment behind, as well as any extensive customization of my desktop. At that time, the ubiquitous themes.org also got in disarray, and I feel it was a bit an end of an era of design and theming experiments on the early Linux (and *BSD) desktop.

pino836 days ago
Wasn't Enlightenment something that just looked good in screenshots (compared to Win XP or even earlier ones)? I love desktop environments that look nice, I love effects and animations, if done well, and I love to be able to customize things (KDE/Plasma is doing a really good job in that regard imho). But Enlighenment? Whenever some screenshots excited me, I gave it another try for some hours, and then went back to KDE or Gnome.

It's what you call "ricing" today? You need it for some nice screenshots (or screencasts nowadays), you post them, and then you log off and use something else (i.e. the smartphone, the gaming console, Windows, KDE/Gnome, ...) because that just actually works.

antisol6 days ago
Nah, e is great! It works just fine - it's better at a lot of things because it's fairly low-spec and doesn't require a terabyte of ram and 47 quintillion floating point operations just to open a menu. And if you're using a current version they're responsive to bug reports and whatnot. It does most everything you could want. And it looks damn fine while it's doing it.

Someone showed me the kitty terminal emulator a while ago. They made a big deal about how it can display images! Right there in the terminal! Wow! I was compelled to point out that terminology has had that (and video playback, too) for a LONG time.

One of my favourite features of enlightenment is that it has this thing from back in the day called "configurability", where behaviours tend to be optional and you can decide for yourself whether you want them enabled or not. I know it's not fashionable anymore and maybe not for everyone but personally I think it's a better approach than the gnome-style "You'll take what we give you and be happy about it" approach which is in vogue these days.

pino836 days ago
In a lot of cases, configurability is just a workaround for the issue that devs were unable to implement sth that just works 'fine'. So you could turn it on and live with its defects, or you turned it off and live without the feature. Linux Desktop was always full of that.

But yeah, I also do not like Gnome, because they more and more just removed the switches, but without spending effort to make things fine for everyone.

Plasma is so configurable, I've never seen anything more configurable. On any OS that I've seen.

My personal experience: Yes, you can also build your own environment out of blocks. And then you configure a lot. But not in order to customize it better, but in order to somehow glue these components together in a way that somehow remotely makes sense. :-/

And what's the point of video clips in the terminal? What weakness are you trying to workaround with that? E is a graphical desktop, no? Based on X11 or Wayland. There are actual media players!! A lot. Not a single one is really great, but most will be better than the terminal, I guess. VLC is that bad?

pino836 days ago
PS: When can terminal apps get mouse coordinates in pixel granularity?

Then Qt and GTK can have backends for terminal( emulator)s and I can finally run a graphical terminal emulator inside a terminal emulator? tmux and screen will be dead!!! :D

And when do the terminal hacks for AR glasses start to appear? I still cannot walk through vimacs? Doing ":q!" with just some head gesture? Why not??

SCNR

prmoustache6 days ago
I used E17 for a while and the killer feature for me were independent virtual desktops accross monitors, meaning switching virtual desktop would only switch it on the monitor your focus was on.

I ultimately switched back to KDE despite that ergonomic advantage because it crashed too often and then to Gnome because KDE also crashed too often. Gnome has been rock solid ever since.

TD-Linux6 days ago
Funnily enough, KDE got this feature yesterday: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwin/-/merge_requests/8602
zouhair5 days ago
The one I really miss is WindowMaker[0], missed its powerful simplicity

[0]: https://www.windowmaker.org/

pino836 days ago
I know that people never want to hear such remarks... At least I never want... But I risk being the idiot anyways: KDE/Plasma doesn't crash here so often. I've seen it actually happening in the last years. Unfortunately!!!! Maybe two or three times... And then, it just restarted in a matter of a second. It did not affect anything. No running apps crashed. Just the task bar and the desktop went away for a second.

How long have you tried, and how long are you now trying Gnome?

wink6 days ago
People have different tastes and opinions, and I don't remember how GNOME looked in 1998, but KDE 1? 2? wasn't so great imho (saying that as a huge fan of plasma, and intermittent KDE user for the last 25y).

I used enlightenment for a bit and was very happy with it - just like some things on a desktop at home don't matter, but do on a laptop. I've more than once mangled i3 and gnome or xfce or kde together to have the "desktop environment" things like wifi and power management and so on.. whereas in the 90s on a desktop I cared about neither of these things.

And while this was all very much a long time ago, I don't see how enlightenment would have changed - it's just a bit barebones compared to a DE, just like i3.

robinsonb55 days ago
KDE1 had some very nice themes! I remember using one that drew inspiration from the visuals of Bryce on the Mac. Dark mode theme - and animated window titles which would scroll gently if the window title was too long to fit.
pino836 days ago
> KDE 1?

Yeah, compared to Win 95 at least, it looked interesting in a positive way...

Problem was: Whenever you clicked on something, some message box appeared, with some one-line error message that contained the word "unknown" or "unexpected"... :)

ryandrake6 days ago
> Wasn't Enlightenment something that just looked good in screenshots

Yea, this was my memory of it, too. I remember installing it, and making a theme that looked all "elite" and cool. I added an anime character desktop background, as was required at the time. Took a few screenshots, basked in how cool I was, and then just switched back to whatever I was using before (I think Gnome).

slater6 days ago
> I added an anime character desktop background, as was required at the time

i always thought that "stone hand on desert island" was the #1 requirement for Linux desktop backgrounds of the time? ofc i can't find a pic of it now

edit: found it https://i.ibb.co/bgpRF6Y7/image.png

jasomill6 days ago
It worked, at least 25+ years ago when I last used it; early versions weren't a model of stability, but that wasn't nearly as important as an X server or a Wayland compositor not crashing, since you can simply restart an X window manager when it crashes (from a terminal window, virtual terminal, automatically from a script, etc.).
kdhaskjdhadjk6 days ago
Lots of teenagers were using it back then judging by the old themes, 95% of which suck. As an adult I made a simple, attractive theme, enabled only the most basic and useful eye candy, and just use it. None of the other alternatives interest me, and I've tried them all.
mghackerlady6 days ago
I actually use my riced setups. Part of a good rice (at least for me) is it being ergonomic and usable. It should, of course, look good
mackman6 days ago
E13 was a great, simple, good looking WM I used for years. Eventually moved to Fluxbox then back to macOS when it went Unixy.
pino836 days ago
In my personal experience - as far as I can remember - it always stopped to be good looking when it wasn't a screenshot anymore but a running process on my machine. In motion, all the eye-candy became ugly and foolish and visibly hobbyist, and as soon as I began using some applications outside of the E-ecosystem, the last sparks of fanciness went away anyways.

But that was... idk... E16 or so?! I really cannot remember. Maybe it had better times earlier, or maybe (surely) people are different and have different criteria for choosing such things.

Was E13 before they started trying to be a klingon starship UI?

avereveard6 days ago
same, especially compiz era after good drivers and accelerated compositing became ubiquitous was wild
madaxe_again6 days ago
E16 was the hook that caught me and landed me, flopping and writhing, on the decks of Linux - I saw a black and white printout of someone’s desktop, and immediately set about figuring out how to get this unbelievable coolness working on my laptop. By the time I was done I was muttering modelines in my sleep, and had already committed my first patches to a kernel module.

I wonder how many other teenagers got catfished into becoming software devs and sysadmins by the siren song of rasterman.

malux856 days ago
Me too! Looking at my old windows 98 machine and then at slackware Linux with enlightenment lured me to Linux and began a lifelong journey!
torh6 days ago
Same for me. Slackware (I guess 4.0) and E16 was my first proper Linux installation. Learned so much during that time.
oldge6 days ago
Same for me. He definitely contributed to my fondness and wonder of Linux back then.
madaxe_again6 days ago
SuSE 5.1 for me, as it was what I could easily get the CD-ROMs for, as bandwidth was just a single 64k ISDN at school.
malux856 days ago
Yeah that was the reason for me too, in order to get the distro CD ROMS I had to mail $10 to some random address and wait 4 weeks for them to be mailed back!
pjc506 days ago
Modelines are one of those skills that I thought would get obsoleted, but in fact taught me the mechanics of video timing that I was able to use in unrelated contexts. Such as years later where I was asked to fix a driver for a point of sale system which had a 1024x200 (or thereabouts, extremely wide nonstandard ratio) secondary screen.
exitb6 days ago
It's such an underrated advantage of open source operating systems that if you like some bit of software, you'll likely be able to use it for decades to come. Even a core bit of software like a window manager. I grew to hate how you need to conform to someone's whim at Apple or Microsoft, or else you get locked out of new features.
PunchyHamster6 days ago
Well, unless you decided to use GNOME, then you get rugpulled by a bunch of people that think they know better than user what user wants and actively ignore any feedback
cdmckay6 days ago
You can always fork it if you don’t like the choices they make

That’s the point the OP is trying to make about the advantage of open source

bandrami6 days ago
That's happened like three times to the extent that the forks are more widely installed than the original
ldng6 days ago
And people did but it is hard against Redhat that has actively made harder and harder to use Gtk+ outside GNOME.
antisol6 days ago
Hey! Someone sneaked into my brain and wrote down my exact comment!
badsectoracula6 days ago
There are forks though. The only version i don't think that has a fork is GNOME 1 but... the code is out there (and there is an actively maintained GTK1-based toolkit that was posted here not too long ago, though you may need to make some modifications to the GNOME 1 code to work with it as IIRC it isn't backwards compatible).

People made CDE to work on modern systems and IIRC CDE wasn't even compatible with Linux when the code was first released.

gtk406 days ago
But you can also use MATE still to this day, or even Cinnamon.
zeruch6 days ago
The amount of abuse I hurled at Carsten Haitzler (Raster) during our time at VA Linux (where he worked on E as well as other stuff) was a complete sitcom unto itself; at one point he debated making a "zeruch insult generator" just to streamline the verbal abuse process.

I loved using the environment but would regularly harangue him for being glib on resource usage. It really was otherwise very ahead of the curve.

robinsonb56 days ago
It's a delicious irony that E is now a super-lightweight system compared with the mainstream environments that plauge our RAM chips today.
angled6 days ago
I still remember how cool I thought raster was with his vaio and everything. This was the future! Transparent eterms and tasteful backgrounds everywhere.
sneak6 days ago
it’s not a valid enlightenment screenshot without a digital blasphemy wallpaper.

(digital blasphemy is still around and still selling art.)

jimjimjim6 days ago
Yes! Thank you. That’s a blast from the past
dolmen6 days ago
I remember fondly of a raster talk at FOSDEM about 20 years ago: playing videos inside a terminal. Amazing!
kelnos6 days ago
Wow, I think I remember that talk, too. And I remember thinking, "why would anyone want to run a video inside a terminal?!" I still don't want to do that, but it was cool that enabling that feature only required a few lines of code, since EFL(?) already supported it, was already linked in, and the code to start it was minimal.
dspillett6 days ago
> tasteful backgrounds everywhere.

Certainly not everywhere. I definitely remember plenty of tasteless ones, some deliberately so and others just cases of other people's taste differing from mine!

angled6 days ago
This was the era of !hurl, after all …
ZoomZoomZoom6 days ago
> Sadly, the hang was deterministic:

Huh, someone's in it for the thrill of the hunt, I see...

ho_schi6 days ago
I wonder about the sadly.

Luckily the hang was deterministic.

kelnos6 days ago
I think the author meant that she was just trying to work on her slides, and was hoping that by quitting/restarting, the bug would temporarily go away, so she could continue working on what she actually wanted to work on, and not go down a debugging rabbit hole.

Certainly the determinism made it easier to fix, but the determinism also meant that she had to stop what she was doing and fix it right now, which is... "sadly".

nickcw6 days ago
Sadly as in "Oh dear, I better start debugging this" I think.
unwind6 days ago
Fun post! Very happy to see a 20-something year old find and fix bugs in an X11 wm from before they were born. Gives me hope.

There was some kind of editing snafu though, the loop header in the big (first) code block reads:

    for (i = 0; i < 10; i++, nuke_count++)
But the references to it in the text, and updated versions in the patches, show it as just

    for (;;)
That was confusing me a bit.
isaacfrond6 days ago
In the article just before that code:

The loop is of paticular interest to us. Abridged:

pvtmert6 days ago
I liked the author's pragmatic take on the stability. Indeed that running bleeding edge now has implications to greater attack surface as the supply-chain attacks getting more and more common.

A nice and sincere excerpt from the recent past...

> Back when the XZ backdoor was introduced, I was scrolling through news on my Debian Sid laptop with some code compiling in the background. I learned of a backdoor in XZ Utils, potentially introduced by a state actor in version v5.6.0. Thinking back to the fact that I do, indeed, run a bleeding edge distro and update often, I immediately ran apt list --upgradable | grep xz-utils. Sure enough, the stains on my laptop from the coffee I spat out through the nose2 were pretty tough to deal with.

kdhaskjdhadjk6 days ago
To put a finer point on it: running bleeding edge does not just now have implications of a greater attack surface, it always has had such implications.

It's just that a tiny fragment of people are suddenly becoming aware of this fact (the masses always remain clueless), whereas others have known it for some time. These people are referred to as "crazy tinfoil hat nutters."

pixl976 days ago
Eh, there are two competing drives occurring here.

Back in the day before security was the biggest driver of updating software most people stayed a version or two back to ensure they weren't getting the last corruption bug of the day or whatever other insect was coded in.

But modern internet connected systems have pushed customers into more of an issue. It switched from, stay a version behind to see what bugs are there to, if you don't update now you're going to get hacked.

So this is the situation at hand.

If you don't update you're going to get hacked.

If you update you're going to get hacked.

kdhaskjdhadjk6 days ago
The conclusion is, computer security does not actually exist.
pjmlp6 days ago
Oh, people are still using Enlightenment.

My last time I used it was still in the 1990's, before I settled into Afterstep and soon afterwards Windowmaker.

In what concerns my use of GNU/Linux, it was CDE on others.

Apparently nothing big came out of Enlightenment and Tizen.

mhd6 days ago
Enlightenment always had a pretty weird value proposition. In the very beginning, there was "fvwm-xpm" and early "E" prototypes. They were graphically crazy with a heavy focus on shaped Windows. There's still nothing quite like that weird steampunk/Brazil-ish theme they had. Probably for a reason.

Then they went both visually rather tame and scope-creepy (own graphical libraries etc.). At the beginning I was hoping that we'd get some kind of Amiga-influenced design sensibilities on X (basically a more "artsy" MUI), but that never manifested.

pjmlp6 days ago
Yeah, I got introduced to it via some friends that were former Amiga users.
vidarh6 days ago
In '99 or so, I ran Enlightenment with Amiga-style draggable virtual desktops. As a former Amiga user, it made me very happy.
nobleach6 days ago
I still install it and play with it for a bit every other year. I really appreciate that it's held true to its own core. Yes it works with Wayland now, but it's still using its e-foundation libraries. I still wish I had screenshots of my desktop from 1998/1999. Downloading cool software from Freshmeat, hitting up Slashdot (news for nerds... stuff that matters) to see what was going on. Kinda wish I was into IRC back then but I was more of an ICQ->AIM chatter. It's an era I wish we could have back.
UncleSlacky6 days ago
Moksha (a fork of e17) is the main desktop for Bodhi Linux, an unofficial Ubuntu-based distro:

https://www.bodhilinux.com/moksha-desktop/

https://github.com/JeffHoogland/moksha

jimbosis6 days ago
AV Linux uses Enlightenment 0.27.1. The creator of that distribution also offers a version based on Moksha 0.4.2, the E17 fork mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

https://www.bandshed.net/

Latest Version Release Announcement:

https://www.bandshed.net/2026/03/01/av-linux-and-mx-moksha-2...

A few more details from and older release announcement:

"Both ISO’s are built on an MX Linux 25/Debian Trixie base with Liquorix kernels."

https://www.bandshed.net/2025/11/27/av-linux-and-mx-moksha-2...

pjc506 days ago
I was also a huge fan of WindowMaker. Simple, effective, stylish without getting in the way. Also allowed me to have a vertical taskbar, which I stuck with even on Windows until Win11 has taken that from me - because Mac is the arbiter of taste and everyone must copy it.
shakow6 days ago
MacOS definitely lets you put the dock wherever you prefer.
mghackerlady6 days ago
in fact most professionals I know who use mac prefer the dock on the left or right side
pjmlp6 days ago
Win 11 has some niceties, however many of those could have been provided on Windows 10 as well, for example the security stuff like VBS and secured kernel were already available, even if disabled by default.
fragmede6 days ago
Oh man, that takes me back.

shell=C:\LiteStep\litestep.exe

jandrese6 days ago
I still use Windowmaker in places like VNC desktops where GDM gets grumpy and breaks a lot of the functionality. It also works much better over X displays on high latency networks like the Internet, where it is using the X drawing primitives as intended instead of constantly doing client side rendering and blitting the results over.
sgt6 days ago
Funny, I was also one of those people who switched from E to WindowMaker. At the time I had no idea it resembled NeXTStep, but it was great.

After that I changed to KDE 3 which was a major milestone at the time. I think GNOME at the time was technically superior though.

Then shortly after I realized that desktop on Linux wasn't really going anywhere, so I switched to macOS (OS X at the time).

pjmlp6 days ago
Kind of similar story, eventually I ended up on GNOME, as I favoured Gtkmm over how KDE was at the time, but then GNOME 3.0 happened, and my travel netbook got migrated into Unity, and when it went away, XFCE.

Due to similar realisation, my main working devices became Window 7 with Virtual Box/VMWare Worstation, nowadays WSL.

badsectoracula6 days ago
> At the time I had no idea it resembled NeXTStep, but it was great.

I used (and still use) Window Maker for almost a decade before learning what NeXTSTEP actually was (i heard about the name occasionally but never looked into it), then for several years before even trying one. I remember having a heavy sense of uncanny valley because the thing in front of me looked almost exactly like what i was using for years but it behaved in very odd ways (and lacked most of the window management features i came to expect) :-P. It made me realize what people who were used to Mac OS X felt when they tried the various Aqua GNOME/KDE themes that were popular on Linux desktops some years ago.

sgt6 days ago
On the topic of lookalikes, remember good old fvwm95 ?
prmoustache6 days ago
Funnily, E16 was considered a rather eye candy but heavy WM/environment back in the i486 / early pentium days, now it is considered lightweight!
jhbadger6 days ago
And detractors of Emacs used to claim that it stood for "Eight Megabytes And Constant Swapping" meaning that even on a then-huge machine with eight megabytes of RAM Emacs would use up all the memory. Now it is a tiny program compared to things like Visual Studio Code.
ChrisGreenHeur6 days ago
one of the more interesting things to think about is the big push to rendering all window manager stuff through a gpu, because we were sure we needed drop shadows and geometry transforms for windows....

Now, what we actually do in a window manager could easily be done in software in realtime, just farmed out to some cpu core.

pjc506 days ago
> because we were sure we needed drop shadows and geometry transforms for windows

As screens get larger, the amount of pixels you need to push to composite windows gets larger-squared. It makes sense to move the pixel pushing away from the CPU and more importantly away from CPU-RAM and on to a separate RAM bus.

The "single buffer with invalidation" model of Win16 (I cannot remember how it works in X) saves memory at the cost of more redraws. The composition model allows you to do things like drag window A over window B without forcing a repaint of window B every frame.

It also allows for better process isolation. I think in both Win16 and X11 you could just get a handle to the "root window" and draw wherever you wanted?

badsectoracula6 days ago
> The "single buffer with invalidation" model of Win16 (I cannot remember how it works in X)

Same way, they both come from Macintosh (which, if i remember the apocrypha correctly, was Bill Atkinson's idea based on what he thought Xerox Smalltalk was doing even if it turned out it wasn't working like that).

ChrisGreenHeur6 days ago
eh, there is nothing a gpu can do here within the concept of composition that a cpu could not also do. the gpu simply has buffers that it compsits, the cpu can do that as well. with the benefit of less complexity leading to not needing to worry about driver crashes. on sane architectures its all the same ram anyway
kkaske6 days ago
Things change. The tab in Brave that I'm using to view this comment section is coming in at 95MBs!
db48x6 days ago
I really enjoy a good bug report like this. More people should write up their fixes and publish them!

But the really weird thing is that I could basically copy and paste that code into an open–source game that I occasionally work on. I have an open bug or two about game items with long names that cause the UI to look weird where ellipsization is the obvious solution. With only a few trivial tweaks Enlightenment’s code would just work. It’s almost like we should have a library for that sort of thing.

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BozeWolf6 days ago
I am still waiting for e17. I stuck to e16 for a long time until ubuntu got a thing which was much more convenient than gentoo.

I had the classic setup with the apache helicopter on the background and virtual desktops with preview. On MacOS however.

To this day i am still using a single screen, with virtual desktops ordered the same way.

UncleSlacky6 days ago
They're up to e27 now, it even supports Wayland.
kdhaskjdhadjk6 days ago
The dbus requirement is a hard pass from me.
arwineap6 days ago
Greetings from e27!
shevy-java6 days ago
Enlightenment is pretty cool. Some years ago though I realised that I just want the computer to be a fast and simple workstation at all times. That's when I kind of stopped using KDE (and GNOME3 but I did not use it to begin with, it always felt like an opinionated smartphone-UI pushed onto the desktop).

I think only few people use Enlightenment, so the resources to fix bugs must also be small.

mrweasel6 days ago
> It’s themable, hackable, lightweight

Certainly wasn't considered lightweight back then :-)

I never saw the appeal of Enlightenment, but a very nice write-up regardless.

drooopy6 days ago
No kidding. Last time I used Enlightenment back in the late 90s, both KDE 1.x and GNOME 1.x were orders of magnitude more usable on my lowly Pentium MMX 166 with 16 MB of RAM.
sqbic6 days ago
I love Enlightenment still, even the new ones. The most important component of it to me is Terminology. What a gorgeous and functional Terminal emulator.
_3u106 days ago
I used that same theme back in 2003. Makes me want to reinstall E16
kogasa240p6 days ago
Oh wow didn't expect someone my age to try out Enlightenment. Every so often I try to use Enlightenment (either e16/moksha or the latest version) but I always leave because it requires Connman and setting it up properly is a pain imo. Might try it again because of this blogpost.
cheschire6 days ago
https://www.enlightenment.org/ Seems down at the moment.

Coincidence, or collateral hug?

rasterman6 days ago
that was literally me... i stopped it because... well.. short version - chasing bug in efl that blurted out an invalid object stdout errors when http requests for the forecasts module failed - the module relies on a caching proxy service on e.org to get weather forecasts. i simulated it a bit brute-force by temporarily taking down apache :) it's back and bug is fixed in git. it's silent now not complaining about invalid objects.
arwineap6 days ago
Thank you for all your work on e, still my daily driver after all these years
jojobas6 days ago
It was a load-bearing bug you reckon?
manbash6 days ago
I always appreciated how you can simply attach to the enlightenment process at any point, and also upon a crash.

The documentation is there: https://www.enlightenment.org/contrib/enlightenment-debug

chriswarbo6 days ago
Whenever I try something else, I always seem to keep going back to E16. Back in the day, it worked well in Gnome 2.x; these days I tend to use it in XFCE, but it feels a bit less integrated.
sandos6 days ago
"Re-attaching repeatedly showed the program was not deadlocked."

Why re-attaching and not just resume then ctrl+c ? Is this some kind of clever hack I dont know about.

rasterman6 days ago
when it's your window manager you are using right now... you tend to debug differently :) yes yes - xephyr and what not. i know...
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mghackerlady6 days ago
I really wish there was more EFL software :(
smm116 days ago
Good thread.

I've been going backwards to Afterstep and Window Maker theming. Maybe I'll get back to E in a few years.

porknbeans006 days ago
Still the best window manager ever made. Nothing has beaten it to date.
throwaway8886665 days ago
I still use enlightenment today in the form of Bodhi Linux
wezardine6 days ago
very nostalgic :D thanks for a trip back down memory lane!
hartror6 days ago
Wow I haven't used enlightenment since the 90s! So cool!
kkaske6 days ago
These are exactly the kinds of posts I love. It seems technical posts like this are less and less on the internet. Is this a result of "vibe coding"? We don't feel like writing up posts like this when a machine did the work? Maybe it's a result of fewer and fewer people blogging. Maybe I'm just old and yelling about things changing.
lateralux6 days ago
e16 was truly unique... honestly the best Linux desktop ever made !