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#code#prs#review#change#before#comments#more#approval#should#things
Discussion (30 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
But PR discussions about lintable style issues always surprise me. The ideal solution is to add a rule in the linter. But when the team won't agree on the rule, and is open to multiple styles, the author should decide, simple! Had a team mate recently who'd block PRs over T[] vs Array<T>, forcing people to stick with Array<T> for simple types like number[] even though TypeScript's own docs and tooling push T[].
When a project has well-established patterns, part of the job is to just follow the pattern, whether you like it or not, until you find a reason to 1) change the pattern everywhere, or; 2) make an exception to the pattern with intention.
Notably, prevent github merges if there are unresolved comments, so you know they glanced over them before collapsing it.
Things like that I'd much rather leave as comments in the code, rather than dangling as off-hand things in some unrelated PR. Probably no one will see those PR comments unless they go splunking for some reason, but having them right in the code is much more evident to all the people passing through, or even reminding yourself in the future too.
In general I feel like PR reviews are basically reviews happening too late, and if there is a lot of stuff to review and agree upon in the PR, you'll be better off trying to reduce that up front by discussing and noting design decisions before the work even starts. If there is so many unknowns first, do one step to figure out how it can be done, then agree on that, again before starting the actual work.
That leads to PRs basically just being spot-checking, not deep analysis nor even space for nitpicks. If you as a reviewer spots things after the implementation rather in the discussion beforehand, that ends up being on both of you, instead of just the implementer who tried to move along to finish the thing.
I agree in general and tried to push for a more iterate approach in our team. However, my fear is that this would multiply the effort because it's very easy to discuss many things that do not matter or turn out later to not matter.
It seems it's easier for people to only discuss the important stuff when presented as an actual implementation.
We are talking tendencies here, of course, general design decision must always be done beforehand.
LLMs help a lot here, create two prototypes with both designs, compare them together :) Could even evaluate how ergonomic some future potential change is, to see how it holds up in practice.
I used to use pen and paper to essentially do the same, minus having real code and instead just talking concepts, but it does suffer from the issue that some need to be confronted with code in front of them to visualize things better for themselves.
Code review is specifically for code quality, more lower level stuff.
You're essentially suggesting pre-PRs, but it is circular, since those same pre-PRs would have the same criticism.
PRs are about isolated core changes, not feature or system design. They answer how not why.
Yes, but I'm arguing for that it shouldn't be the first time they hear about that this change is planned and happening, and their input should have taken into account before the PR is even opened, either upfront/before or early in development. This eliminates so many of the typical PR reviews/comments.
Figure out where you are going before you start going there, instead of trying to course correct after people already walked places.
Walking this road to the end you get pair programming.
So it's helpful to shift left on that and discuss how you intend to approach the solution. Especially for people who are new to the codebase or unfamiliar with the language and, thanks to AI, show little interest in learning.
Obviously not for every situation, but time can be saved by talking something through before YOLOing a bad PR.
I'm not saying it's not important to discuss how you intend to approach the solution ahead of time, but I am saying a lot about any non-trivial problem you're solving can only be discovered by attempting to solve it. Put another way: the best code I write is always my second draft at any given ticket.
More micromanaging of your team's tickets and plans is not going to save you from team members who "show little interest in learning". The fact that your team is "YOLOing a bad PR" is the fundamental culture issue, and that's not one you can solve by adding more process.
This is accurate, but it's still an important check in the communication loop. It's not all that uncommon for two engineers to discuss a problem, and leave the discussion with completely different mental models of the solution.
One thing not mentioned is how important it is to acknowledge the comments too. People are taking their time to review your PR, and not even giving a reaction will make the commenter question whether or not it was even received. I'm not looking to throw my thoughts out into the aether. That's what microblogging platforms are for!
I can't tell you how many times I got no response/acknowledgement on a comment that actually surfaced something critical. I haven't been keeping track, but I think my comments could have prevented dozens of outages at this point. It's quite exhausting. In my own experience, the worst offenders of this are senior devs.
> Why approve, if I’ve left comments that I think are worth implementing? > > Because I trust my team. I know that my comments will be considered, and if they’re useful, implemented.
I do this a lot too. It's critical that PR authors don't burn that trust either. If they make substantial changes that warrant another review, I hope they do request it. Too many times in my career have colleagues just went ahead and made bad changes after my approval that I would have easily caught, merge, and things go
High trust, high alignment environments move so fast, and you know when you're in one and know when you have your colleagues' trust. It feels really good!
If anyone at GitHub is reading this, I’d love a fourth checkbox in the “leave a review” modal that is “Approve but disable auto merge” (alongside Comment/Approve/Request changes)! Even just surfacing “this PR has auto merge enabled” near the Approve button would be great.
Code review has value, but I don't think we are always honest about the costs. At most places I've worked, there has been an informal understanding that code should be reviewed within 24 hours or so, but there is a world of difference between getting a review within 2 hours and 23 hours.
If you have to go back and forth a second time, it's so much more likely that the approval comes much later due to straddling end-of-day in someone's timezone.
Tangentially, if you are designing policies for code review at your org, try to think both about minimum requirements (e.g. PRs should get a first look within 24 hours) and typical requirements (e.g. most PRs should get reviewed within 2-3 hours). What typically happens is what determines overall velocity for your org, so it's much more important than whatever strict SLA policy you have. These are also fixable problems if you have targeted conversations with people. E.g. "I noticed X, Y, Z times, you had unreviewed PRs at the end of the day. Can you set aside some time to review code before EOD? Or try installing PR reminder?"
The 'auto merge on approval flag' PR authors can flip on GitHub breaks this flow though, as it will just merge as soon as you hit approve.
We also have most of our repos set to block if unresolved comments. I think it’s a flag on branch protection rules
I’m skeptical. Software is as buggy as it ever was. I come across teams shipping terrible quality software, where every line change was approved and reviewed. I come across teams that require every change have an approval, but don’t require 100% test coverage. I’m seeing senior engineers have to get approval from juniors for a copy change.
It’s theatre. It’s bad management. It’s a cargo cult. It isn’t actually driving code quality.
Code review is one thing. Code review is good. But requiring every change have an approval is something else.
Whether those comments get read once approved, I don't know.
Most people are fine, some routinely abuse it to do much larger changes that should normally imply full review - double check afterward! Your name is still on it, it is still your responsibility.
I have now commented on it.