Back to News
Advertisement
Advertisement

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

80% Positive

Analyzed from 970 words in the discussion.

Trending Topics

#brain#mice#stroke#gamma#neurogenesis#read#understand#oscillations#inject#why

Discussion (30 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

MattCruikshankabout 2 hours ago
If you've read Ted Chiang's "Understand," you'll understand why this headline made my eyes pop out. For those who haven't, it's in the "Stories of Your Life and Others" collection, which includes the short story that the film Arrival was based on.
jadboxabout 1 hour ago
I'm a big fan of Ted Chiang's "Understand" short story, but I think your way over hyping the study there: more neuron growth does not even generally translate to higher intelligence and can often introduce a variety of degenerative effects because pathways are not being grown a an organized systematic way through natural process of experience adaptation.
TheGRSabout 1 hour ago
I just read this a few months ago and it was my first thought as well! Like Flowers for Algernon taken to its extremes.
seabass-salmonabout 3 hours ago
Wonder what criteria they're using to define "first" here, as I'm aware Clinuvels afamelanotide treatment had positive results (though they're not proceeding with it currently as the burdensome regulatory processes make it too risky to have too many pots on the boil) https://biotechdispatch.com.au/news/clinuvel-announces-posit...
caycepabout 2 hours ago
It really depends on how much the company wants to invest. If it really worked, then it would be relatively straightforward for them to put together a Phase II. Not cheap, but relatively straightforward. Or at least it would have been when we had a functioning FDA

Also, the other definition in question is what the UCLA PR person means by "repairing brain damage". As far as I can tell from the paper - the "drug" part was using some neurotransmitter blockers on brain cells on a Petri dish to see if they could change gene expression or oscillatory firing patterns matching recordings in mice undergoing "physical therapy". They did not actually test to see if the stuff grew new brain cells or dendritic connections.

trhway4 minutes ago
> This type of neuron helps generate a brain rhythm, termed a gamma oscillation, which links neurons together so that they form coordinated networks to produce a behavior, such as movement. Stroke causes the brain to lose gamma oscillations. Successful physical rehabilitation in both laboratory mice and humans brought gamma oscillations back into the brain and, in the mouse model, repaired the lost connections of parvalbumin neurons.

>Carmichael and the team then identified two candidate drugs that might produce gamma oscillations after stroke. These drugs specifically work to excite parvalbumin neurons.

Asking while being total layperson here - can we generate those gamma oscillations by an [may be implanted] electronic device?

kletonabout 1 hour ago
KnuthIsGodabout 2 hours ago
Potentially life changing for male mice...
bawolffabout 2 hours ago
People go on about this too much. Its the first step, it shows promise.

Does that mean it will neccesarily work? No, of course not. But its still exciting to see progress being made.

benaabout 1 hour ago
But it's not progress. Not really.

Mice are used only partly because they share a considerable amount of DNA with us. But they're mostly used because they're cheap. Both in financial and ethical costs.

They live for about two years, and breed in about three months. They are disposable. Over 100 million are killed each year in various labs across the country.

And for all of this, only about 5% of medicine that show positive animal results make it to market in some fashion. So basically, the best thing we can say about a mouse-tested drug is that "this most likely won't make things worse". But that's like a low bar.

650REDHAIRabout 2 hours ago
You’re right.

Let’s just skip straight to human trials.

functionmouseabout 2 hours ago
very happy for those mice
benoauabout 5 hours ago
> “The goal is to have a medicine that stroke patients can take that produces the effects of rehabilitation,” said Dr. S. Thomas Carmichael, the study’s lead author and professor and chair of UCLA Neurology. “Rehabilitation after stroke is limited in its actual effects because most patients cannot sustain the rehab intensity needed for stroke recovery.

Sounds truly amazing, I have known two people who had severe strokes - one's PT was contingent on triaging resources to whoever was likely to recover more, another simply hated PT and speech therapy and often refused to participate or do the exercises. Even if it didn't help recovery a medicine like this would have reduced the stress of everyone involved.

0xWTFabout 2 hours ago
... in male mice.

I think savvy universities want PIs who are savvy enough to realize that the point of these is to boost measurable visibility like citation count and h-index, so the headline of a news release boosting the article doesn't matter. They can always blame a copy editor for the headlines. It could read "world peace solved with moon juice." The provost would only care if it generated negative feedback. So it's the PR department's job to juice it as much as possible without getting blowback.

somewhatgoatedabout 2 hours ago
Isn’t that where all drugs start out? But yea the headline doesnt tell the full story
nubgabout 2 hours ago
How do they test this on mice? Do they trigger brain seizures in them?
Traubenfuchsabout 1 hour ago
Many different techniques for different types of stroke:

We can block certain arteries mechanically by inserting a tool, inject photosensitive agent then cause a targeted clot with a laser, inject clotting agent, choke, inject blood vessel dissolving agent and re-inject its own blood.

I understand why we research this but I just could not do it.

mlmonkeyabout 3 hours ago
Are there any supplements that can work for neurogenesis? I've heard Lions Mane extract can do this, but I'm not sure. Anybody know of anything?
toasty228about 2 hours ago
If you don't sleep 8+ hours a day every single day, exercise regularly, live in a place with clean air, eat clean food, don't drink alcohol, etc. you're losing your time, no amount of supplement will make up for our modern way of life, you're going to optimise the 0.1% while missing the 99.9% that matters
SilentM68about 2 hours ago
That is true, but keep in mind that routine is very difficult to do for someone that makes their living running the rat race, with stress, no time, responsibilities, worry, untreated health problems, etc. If you have the money, job security, then you'll have peace of mind. That will then allow one to live that kind of optimized lifestyle.
rexpopabout 2 hours ago
This is why we cannot abide scabs.
throwforfedsabout 3 hours ago
There's (minimal) research on psilocybin doing just that. One of the tragedies of prohibition is that we just weren't able to study these psychedelic compounds easily for 50+ years.
grvdrm27 minutes ago
Have any sources? I’d love to read what you are thinking about.

I haven’t used psilocybin in a clinical setting but have gone through an alternative psychedelic-assisted therapy process. Very interesting results and many positives.

dirtbagskierabout 3 hours ago
Cardiovascular exercise and strength training. Both are thought to contribute to neurogenesis, even in healthy people
NDlurkerabout 2 hours ago
aeonikabout 2 hours ago
Alpha-GPC and Uridine Monophosphate appear to have some effect, though minor. Also not exactly neurogenesis, but adjacent stuff. Evidence is complicated, there seems to be a signal but it's a weak effect.
caycepabout 2 hours ago
Of note, cautionary tale is too much neurogenesis is brain cancer...
dymkabout 2 hours ago
No, brain cancer is brain cancer.
caycep14 minutes ago
which is poorly differentiated cells undergoing unchecked neurogenesis...
sysreq_about 2 hours ago
Nicotine is the only psychoactive substance proven to increase intellectual function. Rote neurogenisis does not - much in the same way height isn’t a proxy for IQ. Stimulants like Adderall, Caffiene, etc are Dunning-Kruger by proxy.