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There are many existing, often mature, third-party software libraries or solutions that a new project could use but which hide the internals, including how the data is organized behind the scenes*. Vibe-coding for the specific project requirements, instead of using the pre-existing third-party libraries, is now becoming a feasible option. The latter may be simpler (no features beyond the actual need), more flexible (easier to add new needed features), and the data/model behind could be more accessible.
Looking for feedback on pros/cons and experiences along this.
* I care for the data as it is can be longer-lived than the code itself.
Thanks.
I do think enforcing correctness at the type system level is a good idea for AI, which is why I often choose languages like C# and Rust over Python. However, for some things Python is definitely the correct tool for the job.
The main reason is that you’re capable of reading it if you need to. And the recipient ecosystem expects a language. That’s why some data science communities pick R, MatLab, Julia, Python or Mojo not depending on what’s superior tech, but what their peers speak.
Is there some incentive I’m not seeing?
Nothing you read in the browser can provide ultimately great and hands-down the best reading experience equally for everybody - the modern web model is inherently at odds with that. A plain HTML page with no CSS is a near-perfect reading experience. The problem is that almost nobody ships that, because the web also became a publishing platform where authors compete for attention. A plain-text protocol under user control is closer to "best reading experience for everybody". The web could be that. It mostly isn't.
I stopped trying to read long articles in the browser. Why would I do that, if I can easily extract all the relevant, plain text (and even structured one) and read it in my editor instead? Where I have control over fonts, colors, navigation, etc. The browser is a delivery mechanism, not a reading environment. Treating it as one is a habit, not a necessity.
Long ago I stopped trying to type anything longer than three words anywhere but my editor. Of course, why wouldn't I? It already has everything I need - spellchecking, thesaurus, etymology lookup, translation, access to all my notes, LLM integration, etc. Try it one day - it's enormously liberating experience. And then maybe you'd stop reading long texts in the browser as well.
I look at it the same way I look at pay walls for newspapers. I don't like them but I understand why they are there.
In reality it doesn't matter where something is posted, just give us a url, but some people don't operate that way.
Another benefit to using Python, is if you subscribe to writing/vibing a throwaway version first, a Python version is 100x better than a spec.
(Disclaimer: I teach Python and AI for a living and am doing a tutorial at pycon this week, Beyond vibe coding. Am also using other languages as there are times when Python isn't appropriate)
I agree with you about fast failure being a nice feature , but I also think that if you're TDDing a bunch of stuff and it fails in some categorical way , well then the test suite was lazy.
The article describes what I've been doing for the past few months - I did small python projects in the past because of the ecosystem: I couldn't possibly write a ton of the stuff required for the things I wanted to do, so I leaned into python because someone already wrote it for me. Quality of deps was mostly ok for the happy paths, but always a chore to patch the broken ones.
Nowadays I tell Claude what I want to build and I always ask it whether rust is a good choice for it. It'll pick up the right crates or choose whether it should DIY, do all the plumbing, nail all the logic, and in ~30m I'll have something very solid that would have taken me 3+ weeks of part-time evening coding in python. I think the article is right and rust is the closest to the "best language" we have for LLM coding at the moment: the strict typing and the tooling dramatically reduce the output space for LLMs, and 99% of errors have a clear, precise explanation that is actionable, and the compiler helps you a lot there too.
I think it also boils down to the fact that you cannot reliably and quickly answer "why is this arg None?" in languages like python without figuring out the call graph and evaluating possible states and inputs/outputs. Rust makes all that explicit and forces you handle it, which I feel dramatically cuts the time an LLM needs to spend figuring out why it's broken or what to do next. EDIT: The fact that you get memory safety on top of all this and it's handled by the compiler is yet another advantage for LLMs: the logic that gets written is simpler to reason about, because if you try to mutably access the same variable in two different places, the compiler will feed this back to the LLM at build time. In other languages that would be a "code smell" or would require static analysis.
Strictness is a quality for software and a chore for humans, and of course the stricter you are at representing your logic and your state machine, the less ways a program can break. LLMs writing in rust give you the strictness without the chore part, and it's a very good deal from my point of view.
Note that:
Writing code, then tests
Is not equivalent to:
Writing tests, then code
Remember, you are the judge whether the code is OK and if you use assembler you might get really performant code, but can you trust it?
Of course it might be a good incentive to learn rust or go. Or challenge yourself to learn something really cool like LISP, COBOL, FORTRAN, APL or J. (just kidding...)
just my 2 ct...
Python does have a much larger ecosystem of course, so with Go you have to develop from scratch what already exists in Python. But for smaller projects, you can also have an AI write a clean-room implementation in Go of some project in Python. So you aren't necessarily locked into one ecosystem anymore.
And in my experience, you don't even need to know the language. I have a co-worker who's basically not a programmer, but got multiple implementations of applications working sooner than our dev teams doing it by hand. You should be a coder so you can architect and orchestrate the coding, but 'language' isn't a barrier anymore.
Deployed to production, right?
Right??
(I’m just kidding, of course it’s only on their machine, no different than Excel 5 years ago)
> architect and orchestrate the coding, but 'language' isn't a barrier anymore.
Never was the barrier.
May never happen. But be clear with yourself if you’re relying on it not happening.
It’s a hell of a nice risk mitigator to understand the code, in a language you know, if you have to print-debug it yourself at some point.
This "fair weather development" approach feels very risky if that application is going to be exposed to any serious usage. There WILL be a situation when things break and the AI will be powerless to fix it (quickly) without breaking something else in a vicious loop. There WILL be a situation where things work fine and tests pass with 3 concurrent users but grind to a complete halt with 1000 because there is something O(N^2) deep in the code. And you NEED a human to save your day (which requires also proper architecture for that to be possible in the first place). If you don't plan for this, and just hope for the best, then you are building nothing more than a toy. And if you plan for this, then it matters again what the language is, and whether your team is proficient in it.
Or maybe I too old fashioned or too behind the state of the AI art...
One of the reasons I dislike Go is because it's easy for most engineers to write really low grade code with it. But AI agents would probably not write the best code in any language anyway, so not much is lost.
But on the other hand, maybe you could learn some other programming language, particularly with AI help. If that's what you wanted to do anyway, it seems like a good time to learn.
I don't know rust at all and I've built three applications using it with Claude because it has speed and correctness built-in.
I use Typescript for 90% of the things I build. For web development I've used a number of tools, but mostly react, nextjs, or raw html/css/js. But if I were building an enterprise application I'd consider my team and whether opinionated (Angular) was optimal over flexible (React).
Each project should consider its own optimal tech stack.
1. Type safety as basic guard rails that LLM output is syntactically and schematically correct
2. Concise since you have to review a lot more code
3. Easy to debug / good observability since you can't rely on your understanding of the code. Something functional where you can observe the state at any moment would be ideal.
4. A very large set of public code examples across various domains so there's enough training data for the LLM to be proficient in that language
5. A large open source ecosystem of libraries to write less code and avoid the tendency for generated code to bloat
It's basically all the same things you look for in general. I think TypeScript scores high here but I'm curious if anyone knows of a language that fits these criteria better.
It's more or less a perfect replacement for Python for "one-off programs" and "quick scripts". Many bonus points for not having to fight shell quotation rules and trying to remember differences between sh, bash and zsh.
If you don't know Go, it's more efficient to learn it than to waste the hardware resources of thousands to stay within JavaScript.
Golang or just shell scripts.
Isn't readability what matters here? Conciseness isn't the same thing.
Type safety is great, but you can't just quietly disregard the benefits some dynamically typed languages provide; that would be completely ignoring that different tasks weight the two axes differently.
Systems code, performance-critical code, code where correctness across all cases matters more than exploration: parsers, compilers, network protocols, data structures - statically typed languages (like Rust) give you an edge here. The compiler's depth pays for the verbosity, and exploration is less of the work because the problem shape is known up front.
For stuff like building a web scraper, or rapidly prototyping, or exploratory scripts, something like Rust would be actively bad. You cannot poke at a live browser (you can with Clojure). Async Rust adds another layer of type complexity. The signal-to-noise for "figure out what is on the page" collapses entirely.
If I were picking a single language for general LLM-assisted work, weighted across task types, it would be Clojure (or Elixir), with OCaml as the most interesting alternative if the ecosystem were stronger.
Give it 2 years, the ‘Blame the AI ‘ incidents will increase. Like an unfaithful partner you’ll always return to it
2) it's practically verbose, not technically
3) it resembles pseudocode
4) batteries included shortcuts a lot of work
all of these reasons are a boon for LLM work.
2) The corpus for the sort of applications I build is likely larger for Python than it is for C++ and Rust. Bigger corpus == more training data == better generated code.
3) The bottleneck in the applications I run aren't in the execution of the code; they're in the database/network latency.
4) I don't get anything extra for pushing Rust or C++ over Python.
I tend to agree with the article’s statement about the value of the test code though, may even have been true before LLM code took over.
tldr 2% average point lost on Rust compared to python, gap vary by model, go has a better upper bound but opus had it 3% below python.
benchmark is a bit old but research on why is there, article is just vibes
Therefore the "best" language is going to be whatever makes it easiest for humans to detect bugs, bad design, or that the "wrong thing" has been developed.
It doesn't matter if the 800-line if statement is able to use pattern matching.
There's been a lot of progress on making coding agents able to solve problems when they can easily evaluate in a closed loop, we desperately need something similar for controlling complexity and using relevant abstractions.
The (well-known) Sapir–Whorf hypothesis (if dont know it, look it uop) is often invoked for natural languages, but there’s a pretty direct analogue for programming languages: the language you "think in" during solving a problem biases which abstractions and idioms you reach for first.
If you force an LLM to first solve a problem in a highly abstract language (Lisp, APL, Prolog) and only then later translate that solution to C++ or Rust, you’re effectively changing the intermediate representation the model works in. That IR has very different "affordance", e.g.
- Lisp pushes you toward recursive tree/list processing, higher‑order functions and macro‑like decomposition. (some nice web frameworks were initially written in LISP, scheme, etc...)
- APL pushes you toward whole‑array transforms, point‑free pipelines and exploiting data parallelism. (banks are still using it because of perforance)
- Prolog pushes you toward facts/rules, constraint satisfaction, and backtracking search. (it is a very high abstraction but might suit LLMs very well)
OK, and when you then translate that program into C++/Rust/python, a lot of this bias leaks through. You often end up with:
Rule engines, constraint solvers, or table‑driven dispatch code when the starting point was Prolog.
Iterator/functor pipelines and EDSL‑like combinators when the starting point was Lisp.
Data‑parallel kernels and "vectorized" loops when the starting point was APL.
In principle, an LLM could generate those idioms directly in C++/Rust. In practice, however, models are heavily shaped by their training distribution and default prompts. If you just say "write in Rust", they tend to regress towards the most common patterns in the corpus (framework‑heavy, imperative, not very aggressively functional or data‑parallel), even when the language would support richer abstractions.
By inserting a "thinking" step in a different paradigm, you bias the search over solution space before you ever get to Rust/C++. That doesn’t magically make the code better, but it does change which regions of the design space the model explores.
Same would also be true for python which is already a multi-idiomatic language. So it might be a good idea to learn a portfolio of different languages and then try to tackle a problem with a specific language instead of automatically using python/go/rust because of performance.
Something to consider...
p.s. how would a problem be solved when the LLM would have to write it first in erlang? Is it the automatically distributed?
p.p.s. the "design pattern" of the GoF comes automatically to my mind, which might be a good hint to the LLM to use.
I'm using coding tools to build a complex media-intensive application. The approach I'm taking is to build a _reference implementation_ in Python, which is in its design specifics, constrained to use patterns which transliterate into the actual deployment targets (iPadOS/MacOS/Web).
Why start with Python?
Because I can read it, reason about it, and run it, trivially, which are Good Things for the reference. I intend to have multiple targets; I'd rather relate them to a source of ground truth I am fluent in.
For what I'm doing, there is also a very rich set of prior art and existing libraries for doing various esoteric things—my spidey sense is that I'm benefiting from that. More examples, more discourse.
I'm out of the prediction business and won't say this is either a good model for every new project, or, one I will need in another N months/years.
But for the moment it sure feels like a sweet spot.
Ask me again though, after the reference goes gold and I actually take up the transliteration though... :)
b) Python code is easier to introspect, and set up test harnesses around. And also extend in agentic frameworks
c) LLMs are really good at translation. I can give it python code and it can translate it into C.
> Klabnik vibe-coded a new language in Rust, therefore Claude + Rust = Good.
I argue the inverse -- Rust, being an ML-family language, is well suited for parsing, and language design (I know! Shocker!). In more moderate translation -- ML-style languages are good for parsing, interpreting and compiling code. Claude is not the magic here -- ML is.
I would also add that I've had decent success vibe-coding+human-coding Haskell (contrary to the article). My experience is that if I can hand-write a rich set of types (blessed be IxMonad), I can throw Claude to fill in the blanks for the implementations. If I can design the data structures that make the program tick, bridging them is something Claude is awesome at. Again, no surprise -- it's intern-level work.
The key distinction between C, Zig and Rust is that Rust is designed around types. C and Zig are more memory-oriented -- they really see most of your program as flat memory and you can kind of shoehorn a little bit of data layout in that flat memory. While this offers a large amount flexibility, this philosophy isn't well suited for proving out correctness. But again -- this doesn't mean they don't have a spot.
When I was a junior at Tesla, I used to joke that senior staff had a VMs in their heads, because that's really how you analyze C programs -- you try to execute it in your head, with interesting inputs, but that's about it. Claude's head-VM is quite fuzzy and often makes errors.
With Rust, if you design your type system, you prevent yourself from making dumb mistakes. Swap out "yourself" with Claude here and it's the same story.
I've yet to see Claude design really nice type systems, fwiw.
But the point is -- Claude is the enemy of beauty and correctness -- it's up to the SWE to design a type-system which will prevent it from doing so. To be clear, I obsess over type-systems personally, but that's not the only way -- incredibly rich, comprehensive, huge type systems, fuzzing, Antithesis, proptesting are all things you can do to minimize the impact of slop, and those are all valid things to do.
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> Code is not written by humans therefore it doesn't matter that you don't know Rust.
Wouldn't say this was explicitly stated, but I definitely smelt this undertone throughout the article. If you don't understand the language you're reading, how can you understand whether the code in front of you is correct or not? If you have a systems engineer sitting across you to clean your PRs up, you can pass that responsibility onto them, but what about when they give their two weeks?
If all you know is Python, chances are you're going to make better software in Python than in Rust. Stick an `Arc<Mutex<T>>` everywhere and chances are your code will be slower, as a matter of fact. Use If you want to learn Rust, please join us! But if all you're trying to do is vibe-code better code -- do it in the language you know and can actually debug when shit hits the fan.
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> Anthropic C Compiler
It is impressive that Claude is awesome at taking existing code and rewriting it, this is certain, but I'd like to repeat the exact same rhetoric that many have given -- rewriting =/= original authorship. Awesome, we have a C compiler, but we already had one, and we just rewrote it? Seems like a little bit of wasted electricity.
To build on top of this, I am really happy that Bun is exploring Rust, and the Claude rewrite is truly impressive, but quite surprising at times, preserving strange anti-patterns (my name being said anti-pattern, teehee): https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/blob/ffa6ce211a0267161ae48b82.... It's hard to determine why Claude decided this -- I assume a really strict input prompt.
Do note that the current stage of that PR is much better than what it was at the state of that commit, and obviously Jarred isn't merging blind slop, but that is still human-driven by someone who has an understanding of their product.
My bet is actually that _rewrites_ of already-functioning, well-tested code, are likely to be more common as time progresses. I think that's what Claude is really awesome at, and I think Claude can often achieve 80-20 improvements through rewrites. Again, Claude alone will not be a silver bullet -- it won't generate data-oriented programs if the source material wasn't data-oriented. It won't optimize for cache coherency, if the source didn't, but moving from Python to Rust alone, with more-or-less the same code structure, you're likely to see improvements by virtue of common operations being memory-coherent and avoiding the GIL and so on.
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> A C compiler written in Rust used to be a graduate thesis. It isn’t anymore.
Come on, this is disingenuous -- a simple C compiler is a 1-day long project. LLVM is a graduate thesis (and for good reason). Copy-pasting prior-art is academic dishonesty and Claude does a lot of that.
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For transparency: I work with Noah.
EDIT: Wanted to add that not a single line of my comment was AI generated.