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Discussion (53 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
There are 4 possible solutions to this problem;
a) convince Americans that it's worth paying more for a locally built product. This is the simplest approach, but there's only so much margin here that the consumer will tolerate. At the moment this gap is too large.
b) Tariff foreign imports to raise their cost. So the US consumer pays more, whether they like it or not.
c) subsidize local production out of the "national interest to support this industry" budget. This has the effect of ramping up demand, hence production, hence production being developed, and eventually getting cheaper.
d) improve US products, and prices, so that they compete in price to the import - or at least fall inside the margins such that a) becomes effective. c) can help bridge the gap here until the US companies have caught up.
In the long run, not all these strategies win. If you go the tariff route, then it's hard to undo it later. Local products fall behind, and the harder it becomes to catch up. Not impossible, but hard.
If Ford wanted tarrifs to help boost EV demand, and so allow Ford to build out infrastructure and lower costs, then fine. But it seems it's more of a short term play to just keep ICE Fords selling in the short term.
This is one of those "the internet is a fad, it'll never catch on" moments. EV's are here to stay. They're going to win. That's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention. If the question is "how to maintain the US car production" then they should be all-in on EV development now. It seems to me though that the current strategy seems to be very short term thinking - trying to just hold back the tide.
For cars, this would mean federally-guaranteed loans up to the median value of a plant for any manufacturer with any production base worldwide (the plant to be built or retrofitted in America, of course) plus an N-year (N set to the expected payback period for a new or retrofitted plant) tariff schedule starting very high before decreasing to virtually zero. Maybe also pass a special bankruptcy regime to expedite the redistribution of assets for those who fail to really send the message that failure is an option.
In the US, there's Slate, which claims to be making a small electric pickup truck. "Preorders will start on June 24, 2026. First deliveries are slated for late 2026." [2] Price in the US$20K range, they claim. Claimed range is 150m with the base model battery. A larger battery is available. It's America's answer to the kei car. If it ships and keeps shipping.
Detroit got way too much into the "more car per car" thing. Chevrolet once had the slogan "basic transportation". They lost sight of that market. The giant pickups are just silly.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Nano
[2] https://www.slate.auto/en
Surely 150km
Not saying you're one of them (there are other people here who fit the bill much better) but like with anything else the people on the internet peddling grand narratives lacking of nuance are delusional fanboys, malevolent liars or some combination of the two. EVs are absolutely going to win certain market segments and take good chunks out of others. Unless the government gets out of the business of regulating the crap out of electrical infrastructure at great cost to us all there will likely be a whole bunch of heavier use cases where they just can't pencil out barring some yet unforeseeable breakthrough in the basic physics of batteries.
I think the auto industry is wise to think about the upcoming ~30yr transition period where all that shakes itself out and how to invest the right amount into keeping ICE stuff competitive but without investing to the detriment of winning the EV segment, etc, etc, standard big business stuff.
Do the big Detroit automakers also build a lot of semis, garbage trucks, snow plows, and fire engines? I can see those types of vehicles being ICE holdouts. But certainly not anything you can drive with a regular driver license.
Your local DPW with a lot of money for new over spec'd trucks, friendly permitting office approving their permit for charging infra, strict 9-5, etc might make it pencil out for their facility maintenance. But a landscaper who's engaged in fundamentally the same work but out of rented space, a landlord that won't get preferential treatment on the install of charging infra, won't qualify for the same fleet discount, works way harder than 9-5, etc, etc. might not make it pencil out.
Local delivery can potentially make great use of EVs, but if you turn up the operational tempo or the range and have drivers slip seating or really racking up the miles it can be a non-starter vs just buying the same thing in non-ev. And of course the fixed infrastructure cost questions still apply.
> can travel up to 125 kilometers (77 miles) on a single charge
The US market generally rejects small-range EVs, except in very niche markets. In order to succeed in the US, it will need roughly 3-4x the range. In order for this to succeed in Mexico, their market will need different driving habits than the typical American.
(I know this as a former 2014 Leaf lessee. Short-range EVs only make sense when they are the only option in my price range, and I really, really want to drive an EV. Maybe the typical Mexican rarely drives far away from home? Or maybe this is for a niche of Mexicans who really, really want an EV and will tolerate a short range?)
It's interesting that info about the car is only half the article. The other half is a commentary on how US politicians are desperately trying to keep foreign EVs out of the country, lest it hurt corporate profits.
It's true that some people drive more than 77 miles per day. But a pretty big chunk of people never do, except road trips/vacations. It could easily be worth it to buy a cheap EV for everyday use and then rent a vehicle for long trips.
if the short range EV is now much cheaper, people will adapt to the restriction because it's an affordable option
Hey at least you admitted that upfront. Average driving speed in Mexico City is 15 km/h so one would have to spend 8h driving to deplete the battery in a day. Typical commutes are perhaps 1h one-way but again, distance wise probably only about 40 km both ways. So this 125km range easily covers it for most people.
I think energy cost is more of an issue for most. electricity is expensive in Mexico City especially compared to base salaries. And electrical infrastructure was never built to handle high power consumption. Most apartments have a single 30A breaker for the entire house. Most heating is done by gas and air conditioning is not widely used. For most people charging speed will likely be limited to about 10A at 120V.
That's pretty much standard operating procedure for any EV. That's one of the perks of owning an EV. Plug it in when you get home from work, and have a full "tank" every morning. Plus you get the cabin preheating using the wall electricity.
And minimum speed on US interstates is typically 40mph, so that reduces its usability even more.
I don't think range will be an issue at that speed tbh.
Cool little transport but not really a "car" in the way we think of them.
Huh, the speed limit is odd because in my urban/city driving in the western US (San Diego, LA, SF, Portland and Seattle) all major cities still basically necessitate non-zero highway driving. Even mopeds (and bicycles) can pretty easily exceed 31 mph.
I've spent about 2 months total in Mexico City and there are still in-city areas where it'd be common to exceed 31 mph. The main rate limiter being traffic...
Anyway not to pooh-pooh the idea too much, I am sure there are plenty of use cases but maybe enabling a top speed of 55 mph would increase utility IMO
As with everything, finding an official announcement of something in Nicaragua might be horrible, so have this instead https://ni.usembassy.gov/message-for-u-s-citizens-new-speed-...
150k pesos (~$8.6k) for a brand new wheelchair-accessible city van seems like a killer deal in the Mexican market. That would come on the market for less than a used air-cooled VW beetle (ended production in Mexico in 2003)
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxis_of_New_York_City
People are so caught up trying to solve every use case at once. Dropping pollution caused by old taxis in city centers will be a big win for Mexico if they can hit their price point. At the price they are quoting fleet operators can buy 2 and have their drivers swap out mid-day during their lunch.
I suspect the current federal government might push back on a Mexican EV just for ideological reasons.
https://www.olinia.auto/
On the website it says it's a car "designed in Mexico for Mexico" https://www.olinia.auto/
on the otherhand the mass produced general frame/battery/motor will be great for mods
This thing is not a car. It's usefulness in USA would be like shuttling around a mall parking lot or between airport terminals.
Even the $8,500 pricetag seems crazy for something with very little actual utility.