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By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.
Has been on my "to research" list for a while. I agree with you that Europeans should stop being so stingy with AC (speaking as an European who still hasn't an AC, but not much longer), but I do wonder how much they actually do to prevent heat deaths.
Because, how many heat deaths happen at home where people would potentially have AC? As far as I can tell (pre researching it) most, if not all, heat deaths I am aware of, happen outside. So the question would be: What is the effect of having a cool 22C home in regards to suffering heat deaths outside. Does it make it better, because your body can cool down? Does it maybe make it worse, because you step into a harsh difference when leaving it? (The last one is probably an easy no, since plenty of countries with high AC rate don't seem to have that issue).
(Or just general damages from heat, not just heat deaths)
Heat waves only became a serious problem in Europe in the last decade. The vast majority of buildings predate the need for air conditioning by several decades - and in plenty of cases by several centuries. The buildings are designed around being livable in a pre-climate-catastrophe climate without needing air conditioning - which is perfectly achievable if you aren't stupid enough to build a city in the middle of a desert.
Adapting all those buildings and streets will take time. Blindly putting AC everywhere and forcing everyone to drive from building to building in an ACed car isn't going to work, that kind of wasteful behavior is how we got into this situation in the first place. You need to redesign the heat management, and you need to start with things like mandating shades to prevent heat from entering buildings in the first place, and planting trees to avoid the heat island effect.
AC will indeed be needed to deal with the final heat peak when outside night temperature is in excess of 30C, but it isn't the one-size-fits-all solution for every heat-related problem it might seem at first glance. If your AC needs to run for more than a few days per year, you've seriously screwed up.
Another thing that would help is if Europe stopped being so averse to new construction so that people could build new buildings with central AC that matches the current reality of its climate and demographics, rather than the climate and demographics of last millennium.
Yes, exactly: install AC where it truly helps and where it is truly needed. That's the point I was trying to make. Most of the rest is solved far more efficient by things like installing shades. In other words: don't go all-out on giant whole-home AC without first stopping the huge inflow of new heat.
> if Europe stopped being so averse to new construction
We're not, there's plenty of new construction over in Europe.
The difference is that European buildings are built to last, so structurally there's no need to tear them down after a couple of decades. They are perfectly usable for another half-century after a minor renovation (including retrofitting AC!), so why destroy a charming historic district for absolutely no reason?
That doesn't mean buildings are never torn down, of course. Right now a lot of post-WWII rental units are being replaced by new construction, as they are architecturally nothing special and renovating them to modern standards is simply way more expensive than replacing them entirely.
Europe is a continent with a lot of different countries, all with different laws and regulations. Even the ones who are in the European Union have different rules and regulations.
So please realize that any blanket statements about Europe work as well as making one about the Americas (ie North/South).
Unfortunately I personally live in a highrise, and in a rental unit, so that "small hole and a bracket" definitely isn't an option for everyone.
... actually works just fine. How do you think mass AC adoption in the US happened? Window units work just fine. Fancy splits and central ducting can come later.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
Window units don't work in most of Europe because our windows aren't compatible with them. If they were, I would have one.
And again, it doesn't solve the core cause. If you want to cool down your home, your first step should be to stop heat from entering. If you can get the same result from €900 of shades and €100 of AC as from €1000 of AC, you'd have to be stupid to go for an energy-guzzling AC-only approach.
To hear Americans jump at the chance to comment about Europeans and their AC usage. Jesus it’s like they have found their little pet peeve to vent all their frustration towards. Perhaps because we grumble every week there’s a school shooting and you feel you have to take petty revenge somehow. Every thread on social media is Americans whining about ACs in Europe, or lack thereof.
Don’t you guys have anything better to do than feel superior because most of us simply cannot have AC, for one reason or another? Meanwhile you have voted for a president that says climate change is a hoax and is investing in coal, for Heaven’s sake, and still here you are, gloating.
If I could have installed an AC unit where I live, I bloody would have.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I haven’t had a good nights sleep in a week, and won’t for another week.
Im really curious how this works. Do standalone units not exist?
Freezing to death in winter should be a harder problem at this point right?
A lot of Americans would be indifferent if it wasn't for Europeans (mostly Germans ime - Southern, Central, and Eastern Europeans are indifferent to supportive) who often try to act all superior about not using ACs or heat pumps because they supposedly "cause colds" or are somehow "unnatural" or try to make it a moral action despite a large portion of Americans using GreenTech to subsidize AC spend.
TBH, a lot of distaste Americans have for "Europeans" is basically a distaste for DACH residents weird sense of superiority (especially racial - you guys don't realize it but you tend to treat Black, Asian, and Hispanic Americans negatively until we wave our passport and Amex Gold/Plat). Most other Europeans are much more pleasant to be around with.
this is also my experience as a north American, sweating is a no-go and they clutch AC at 18C.
You can install an AC if you get the right politicians in that will change the laws. If you don’t have AC it’s your own fault.
And then the same people who moralise air conditioning will burn tons of gas all winter for heat.
Oh, and sensible design choices like eaves that block light from windows in summer are blocked by planners in many cases, bizarrely. The houses are brick ovens.
Anyway I got AC installed here in Utrecht last week, really enjoying it
https://vividmaps.com/comparing-latitude-of-europe-and-ameri...
US states like Texas and Florida have no latitude equivalent in Europe. Los Angeles is farther south than all of Spain.
At the same time, the UK, much of Germany, and Poland are farther north than any state in the US lower 48.
- "We don't need AC, It's only hot a few times during the year." - "Oh what a terrible heat, global warming is getting worse every year."
Pair to that the fact that in many places windows don't open all the way due to bureocratic regulations and many interior designs are very questionable in terms of air flow and you get some unpleasant scenarios.
But it's always funny how many people don't really realize how soon the AMOC will likely collapse (probably within the next 30 years - definitely within the next 70 years) and just unlivable most houses will consequently become, as what we currently consider an extreme winter would consequently become a mild one... The infrastructure just hasn't been built for -20°C
I have one of those portable evaporative coolers and they don't need much power (50-100W). I have one and measured ~110F input and 78F on the output side using nothing more than water and a fan, pretty remarkable. The trick is staying out of direct sunlight, and the body can cool itself well with the same mechanism. Sweating is extremely effective due to the low humidity.
And it raises the heat outside of buildings. Not so good for people who have to be outside, think first responders etc.
"just turn on the AC and keep burning the world down" isn't really the answer.
No it doesn't. Seriously, where does this meme even come from? It should be pretty obvious just from a solar insolation map that AC is just noise vs the sun. The energy usage is tiny vs vehicles or non-heat pump heating and only electric. What changes temperature overall is the balance of thermal retention by the atmosphere vs radiation into space, hence why net increases in GHG are so dangerous. And at the ground level similarly how heat is dumped to atmosphere. Greenery, whites, shade etc is good, asphalt, mass standard glass is bad (hence many cities being heat islands). Old, leaky units sure, we absolutely should work to reduce that. But it's astonishing how people claim AC makes the outdoors hotter so consistently.
> A significant degradation of external thermal comfort can also be seen in the simulations, as heat released by AC systems warms the outside air (see figure 3). The temperature increases due to AC depend on the time of day and on the characteristics of the heat wave, mainly its intensity. On average, the duration spent under high heat stress conditions in the streets is increased by about 20 min per day because of AC.
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab6a24#...
Is that increase small compared to other things, like surfaces that absorb more solar radiation? Maybe. It depends on a lot of factors, but the amount it increases the heat of the outside is certainly non-zero.
Yes, it does. It may be small temperature increase but AC use increases outside temperatures. It is just physics.
Here is a simple diagram: https://www.lozierheatingcooling.com/filesimages/heatPump.jp...
This is an outdated attitude. PV solar panel output correlates really well with air conditioning demand, no need for storage. Overcool your thick-walled masonry buildings during the day as a form of energy storage.
It is, because we're not going to be here forever, so might as well make the best of it. Trying to stop entropy by making everyone's lives worse is ultimately futile, but a certain group of activists have certainly been trying...
They don't create heat. It was there in the first place, just a different location.
Of course air conditioning is reasonably well suited to be a solar load during peak hours, but in most parts of the world if everyone just installed AC units like are common in many parts of the US it would mean a huge amount of extra fossil fuels burnt.
Maybe Europe should sell guns to the states - ideally sold in €
You mean against human-induced global warming.
Where is this meme coming from? I'm in Poland atm. Half of my neighbours have aircon. I dont just because I'm on the ground floor and the max temp is 25.5C Every new apartament building is build with holes ready for AC.
Especially as air conditioning are heat pumps.
Would have helped solve the large dependency on natural gas heating for free as a byproduct!
NB: a friend in construction explained this to me so I could be wrong but it would explain why even pretty fancy new apartments with heat pumps have no cooling.
You'd think the government could subsidize aircon like they did solar for years, and both of those things combined would translate to very pleasant summers spent in energy neutral air conditioned homes.
Of course thinking a cold is caused by being cold doesn't help either...
This isn’t true. I’ve lived in 3 places in London with single glazing. They’re surprisingly common. All new properties come with it but the majority of our housing stock is old.
There’s also little comparison between air con and double glazing. One will be helpful for 4-6 months of the year and reduce my energy bills. The other will be necessary at most 1-2 weeks a year and will cost me thousands of pounds up front. Most people simply can’t afford that.
Best of the best is about 15-16 SEER
That's entry level central HVAC efficiency
Minisplits are far higher, 20+
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler
[2] https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Evaporative+cooler
For exactly the same reason an evaporative cooler isn't going to work: there's no "space" in the air for the water to evaporate into.
Dont take pieter levels so seriously
It's not just the resistance but the price. There is tremendous price gouging in the AC industry. The real cost of a mini split system is the low hundreds of dollars but good luck finding one for that price in Europe. If it were regulated as a life critical technology and not as a luxury then it could be substantially cheaper.
That’s unlikely to be sustainable for an out of pocket of a low hundreds figure.
There are people who think it's a good idea to aircondition service station forecourts. I find the irony of the situation tragically absurd. There's a little of that in the comment you are responding to.
Its going to be a huge challenge because the buildings are not designed with that in mind, many buildings are hundreds of years old making these sorts of renovations notoriously difficult and expensive, but it has to start because climate change is only going to get worse and worse.
Most of Europe has a "registered building" system, where buildings above a certain age are considered historic. Renovating those buildings is an extremely difficult, expensive, and bureaucratic process. You generally need to preserve the period-appropriate look and materials. An AC unit sticking out of a wall won't pass muster.
Even newer buildings are problematic. an acquaintance of mine lives in an upper-middle-class apartment complex that was finished two or three years ago, and their architect has some claim in the contract that prevents residents from installing AC units to "preserve the building's unique look."
The US is build around privately-owned housing (and hence creature comforts) a lot more than we are, so AC is a lot easier to implement there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_Europe
Global warming intensifies differences in weather patterns. Hotter hots, colder colds, more intense storms, etc.
1. Energy is very expensive relative to the U.S. 2. Houses are old old and retrofitting air conditioning is very difficult 3. Houses are more than 1 story with many small rooms making portable and window mounted units unsuitable for a whole house
All modern apartment buildings in London are built with air conditioning because a central air system and district power make it cost efficient.
If you visit a hot place like Dubai or Bangkok, there are endless indoor malls with air conditioning that serve as a place to shop and a third space. Much of Europe doesn’t have that.
The U.S. specifically is also very car-centric. You walk out of your air conditioned house into your air conditioned car and drive to your air conditioned mall. Much of Europe… isn’t. People walk, you can’t avoid the heat.
Yes, certainly, there is a cultural resistance to air conditioning but adding air conditioning to homes isn’t going to stop people dying, homes are the least consequential part of heat in day to day life. Health advice in a heatwave is pretty much: don't go outside.
Heat as the primary factor, vs heat related deaths is significant.
Heat is a system stressor. There's plenty of people having heart attacks and dying from weight related issues that probably got pushed over the edge by a hot day in Nevada that are missed in official stats.
In France, the same exact situation would be reported as a heat casualty leading to heart attack.
Oh but what's the problem, just add more air conditioning! :facepalm:
Sure we would, since AC has nothing to do with it.
Well, not really ignoring it, more like making it worse while setting giant piles of bills on fire.
But climate change is bullshit, right?
By creating and artificial climate in all or our homes we are so disconnected from the world that we think technology will fix it.
Just wait fro the wildfires to blow up this week in the western US. AC will not help.
Our continent has more extreme weather than Europe... we've adapted accordingly because we value human lives. Have you?
We do a lot of things wrong but AC isn’t one of them.
(Unless you’re in the PNW where they never needed it before recently, and somehow continue to build units without it)
That said F-gases would have been an issue, EU only recently banned them.
Also most of Europe truly didn't need AC for a long time, growing up temperature above 30C was exceptional and I didn't even know the term tropical night (nighttime temperature above 20C).
(Now that places are getting 10+ consecutive days above 30 with peaks close or above 40)
I imagine the buildings there just aren't built to support that heat plus the body height of hundreds or thousands of attendees?
The human body has a natural resting temperature of about 37°C, and metabolism of course generates more heat constantly, so we constantly have to shed that heat. When the temperature is low, we can rely purely on conducting the heat into the atmosphere to shed the heat (which is probably why internal body temperature is higher than the atmosphere!). At higher temperatures, conduction is less efficient, or sometimes even adds heat load into the system (at above 37°C, obviously), so we start relying on evaporative cooling (i.e., sweat) to cool us down.
The wet-bulb temperature is the minimum temperature that can be reached by evaporative cooling. So when the wet-bulb temperature is in the mid-30s °C… people start to become literally unable to regulate their core body temperature, and the heat is lethal. Wet-bulb is largely a combination of the temperature and humidity, but unfortunately, it's not typically reported in most weather reports, so people go off of the air temperature (and the humidity) that is reported.
Which is a long-winded way of saying "the humidity matters a lot for how much a given temperature is bearable." I don't know what environment you come from purely by rural New South Wales, but my first guess is the semi-arid and thus low-humidity bush regions of the state, which means the apparent wet-bulb temperature of 37-40°C would be a lot lower than the equivalent 37-40°C for most of the humid continental climates of Europe.
If you live in a town in New South Wales where the average humidity is less than 50% in the wettest (or, should I say, least dry) season, you might not understand what it feels like in London where the average doesn’t dip below 65% any time of year.
Today London will feel at least 4 degrees Celsius hotter than Hong Kong. The latter is already an extremely unpleasant place to be in these conditions (and had in fact its own very hot weather warning issued), and unlike London it has a very strong culture of air conditioning.
4 degrees might seem like not a lot, but heat extremes are a tricky beast. Once your body cannot evaporate heat fast enough, you’re literally toast.
I grew up in a humid city and summers were unbearable. Now I live in a dry climate and 30°C is pretty comfortable.
The humidity here it's hell. You feel 35C like ~42C in dry climates.
https://www.cell.com/trends/genetics/fulltext/S0168-9525(20)...
Last summer my house got to 39, and I didn't have AC (it was broken). I think I'm still recovering.
There’s something about 85F/30C and 80%+ humidity that prevents the temp from going much higher for a longer period of time.
Their climate resilience seems low.
> The event will finish with a fire side chat
Is this a prank?
It's corpo speak for "a more casual discussion"
Glauber's salt is a PCM phase-change material that melts at 90F / 32.4C and starts absorbing thermal energy.
>Venue: LSE Shaw Library, Houghton St, Old Building, London
https://halls.lse.ac.uk/story/25006031/deal-with-the-uk-weat...
> LSE halls (like most houses in the country) don't have air conditioning, it can be quite suffocating.
I blame LSE. Uni should provide safe and comfortable environment for students.
Maybe examine the reflex to dismiss out of hand without evidence?