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#batteries#recycling#https#lithium#car#japan#recovery#com#more#still

Discussion (59 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

cypharabout 2 hours ago
It really should not be surprising that we can get very high recovery percentages from batteries -- we do not mine elemental lithium, so the processes we use for extraction are already designed to extract lithium from fairly low-purity sources. In contrast, lithium batteries are an incredibly high-purity source of lithium. The main question is when it will become cost-effective to create recycling pipelines.

Lead acid batteries had a similar trajectory and modern lead acid batteries are effectively 100% recycled.

leonidasrupabout 1 hour ago
U.S. lead acid baterries recycling has been outsourced.

" As the United States tightened regulations on lead processing to protect Americans over the past three decades, finding domestic lead became a challenge. So the auto industry looked overseas to supplement its supply. In doing so, car and battery manufacturers pushed the health consequences of lead recycling onto countries where enforcement is lax, testing is rare and workers are desperate for jobs. "

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/20/world/americas/car-batter...

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/11/18/world/africa/...

JumpCrisscrossabout 1 hour ago
> It really should not be surprising that we can get very high recovery percentages from batteries -- we do not mine elemental lithium

Plenty of substances we don't mine elementally are not worth recycling. The main advantage with lithium is it tends to go into large volumes of standardised chemistries.

jillesvangurp27 minutes ago
The article seems to be very unspecific about what it is this company does that is so different. It also steps over the fact that there are already quite a few companies active in the US, EU, and China that are recycling batteries. Nor is the cited percentage that remarkable. That's ballpark what competitors are achieving as well. Probably a bit more. 10% lithium is a lot of lithium to not recover. Most natural deposits of lithium have very low concentrations of it.

The main thing actually holding back the recycling industry is the lack of batteries that need recycling, not the lack of technology needed to recycle them. Most of the batteries produced in the last ten years are still being used. And quite a few might head for a second life in storage for another decade or so. It's probably going to be another decade before recycling hits a scale where it becomes a significant and lucrative source of valuable raw materials.

And as others mentioned, it's not just about recycling the lithium in batteries. It's not like cobalt, nickel, copper, graphite, etc. end up on the trash heap.

akssri8 minutes ago
Some geopolitical context:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Senkaku_boat_collision_in...

https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/comme...

Japan was one of the first countries to be hit with rare-earth export-restrictions by China - going back to 2010. It seems that a lot of policy came out from this unpleasant shock, incl. the decision by Toyota to focus on developing FCEVs which would be less dependent on Chinese supply-chains. Ironically, the resulting vacuum may have actually led to Chinese/American companies gaining market share in the BEV space.

Still, given how things are going, FCEVs (and Japan with it) might actually end-up having the last laugh.

googletop32 minutes ago
Mercedes opened a battery recycling plant in 2024, claiming a recycling rate of 96%, of the whole battery. So not sure how much of a breakthrough this japanese tech is https://group.mercedes-benz.com/company/news/recycling-facto...
waterproofabout 2 hours ago
according to https://x.com/Mith_/status/2041911606213537971

> The industry standard for the recovery of lithium (remember there is a difference between recovery and extraction) is 90%, with some platforms now achieving 95%+ like those that use carbonation.

koolalaabout 2 hours ago
What is the standard non-renewable resource used for the recovery process? What materials are used up as catalysts to convert it back?
Sabinus37 minutes ago
Sulfuric acid, hydrogen peroxide, sodium carbonate. Not catalysts but reagents. Most currently come from fossil fuel feedstock but that isn't essential.
nicman2342 minutes ago
more importantly what is the cost versus getting it the non recyclable way
koolala33 minutes ago
that way is 100% non-renewable, the important questions are the total long term costs
toomuchtodoabout 2 hours ago
Some battery recycling challenges are minimal volume at this point on the EV adoption curve, and LFP and sodium ion battery chemistries won’t be worth recycling for the materials alone (but still require recycling as ewaste).

https://www.npr.org/2026/07/13/nx-s1-5847025/ev-battery-recy...

https://www.npr.org/2026/03/02/nx-s1-5706658/electric-vehicl...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48893945

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48013768

justnoiceabout 1 hour ago
The 90% recovery rate is not groundbreaking by itself. The real value is lower contamination and emissions—but it still needs to prove cost-effective at industrial scale.
simondotauabout 2 hours ago
This article is poor, because lithium is just one part of the value contained within EV batteries. Far more valuable is any nickel, cobalt and graphite. Equally valuable is any copper and aluminium. Unless you're effectively recycling a significant number of the major materials, it's not enough.

Furthermore, it's not a remarkable achievement. By contrast to this headline, Redwood Materials claims "Redwood’s technology can recover, on average, more than 95% of materials like nickel, cobalt, copper, aluminum, lithium and graphite in a lithium-ion battery."[0]

[0] https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/recycle-with-us/

fzeroffabout 3 hours ago
What a poorly written article
realxrobauabout 1 hour ago
Did you expect more from a website called Supercar Blondie?
donjapan22about 3 hours ago
While I’m very excited for the new recycling breakthrough, I felt the same. It was… off
zaikabout 3 hours ago
Can this be replaced with the original NHK World article?
iwassayinbourns35 minutes ago
I can’t seem to find it on NHK World at all apart from in a video from April? Is this old news? The linked article is also very sensationalized.

Edit: linked article is also from April.

jmcgoughabout 1 hour ago
> This new technique doesn’t just recycle materials; it recovers most of them at an unbelievable rate.

I'm so tired of reading articles written by LLM. There are several sites that just ingest material (like studies) and crap out low-effort LLM articles.

dodosabout 1 hour ago
I used to enjoy watching smaller youtubers, but everytime I've given one a chance lately it has been unbearably clear that it was written by an llm. Supposedly people have ingested so much llm writing that they've naturally started writing in a similar style.
feverzsjabout 1 hour ago
What about the cost? In China, most used batteries are just burned and buried, so the recycling cost is very low.
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stevefan1999about 1 hour ago
So long or short Lithium?
ggmabout 1 hour ago
The key point will be the energy inputs, and catalyst or other process input losses. Not the % recovery, its more recovery at an economically viable cost

Many processes could recover the inputs. Some are tremendously polluting. Cheap methods to recover lead from older lead-acid car batteries would be an example, or the way scavengers burn plastic insulation of recovered copper wiring.

TL;DR exernalities and economics and pollution drive recycling issues, not % recovery at this point. We know how to recover a lot of the inputs. Knowing how to industrialise and scale it up is what counts.

John McCarthy (of LISP fame) was an (in)famous curmudgeon on USENET, frequently used to say future generations will thank us for making giant collections in the ground of highly valuable recoverable industrial inputs, what we call "rubbish dumps" -He was only partially less wrong, but had a point to make about the cost of inputs to industry vs raw mining costs. If we do come up with a process to strip mine rubbish dumps and send feedstocks in the appropriate directions there's a lot there. Complex plastics, Metals, Organics, Acids, Methane Gas, you-name-it. We already collect and harvest the methane to drive other dump works, the idea of mining the materials isn't "wrong" as much as insufficiently economic right now against raw material sources.

bamboozledabout 2 hours ago
“Japan”, as in the whole country developed this tech ?
jazzyjacksonabout 2 hours ago
acksmackabout 1 hour ago
TIL 'The White House' isn't a sentient building
somenameforme28 minutes ago
Would make for a nice sci-fi, and explain a lot. Not only is it sentient, it's telepathic and malicious!
yanhangyhyabout 3 hours ago
why bother? japan hate EV
mc3301about 2 hours ago
I used to follow it closely and be in the industry, but it still seems like Japan is gonna be the last "mostly ICE cars" of the developed countries.

Which is a shame, because it has a perfect combination of short-range needs (I mean, look at kei-cars), tons of wonderful places to hang out while charging (toll-way rest areas are so good), rare sub-freezing temperatures in most of the country, mandatory vehicle inspections (which could collect great safety data as well as preventative maintenance), general love of new cars and brand loyalty, lack of political or individual divide of "big gas trucks are manly", mobile-power-station earthquake preparedness (a nice bonus), generally cooperative nation-wide infrastructure...

I guess we just have to hope the main automakers can hold on long enough for solid-state batteries and move faster than a snail's pace when it does.

xbmcuserabout 1 hour ago
Why cars though I think people are still stuck with the cars mindset. But with electric we can get smaller ebikes/pods for individuals instead of cars
cammikebrownabout 2 hours ago
If you live in Tokyo or Osaka you really shouldn’t own a car
klempnerabout 1 hour ago
And one of the points that's a little more obvious living here: Japan is a remarkably car centric culture. Not quite to the extent of America, but in much of the country you really do need a car.

If anything the main exceptions to that are exactly the places tourists are most likely to go.

mc330135 minutes ago
If you live in New York City or San Francisco, you really shouldn't own a car.
zdragnarabout 2 hours ago
What about the parent comment implied Tokyo or Osaka residence?
cyberaxabout 2 hours ago
Hence nobody should live in Tokyo and Osaka.
inatreecrown2about 2 hours ago
Isn't the reason they are so slow to adapt them that they have not enough electricity?
toomuchtodoabout 2 hours ago
Japanese automakers are excessively risk adverse. Last big risk by Toyota was their hybrid synergy drive, which they coasted on for too long.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive

https://autos.yahoo.com/ev-and-future-tech/articles/toyota-p...

https://www.motor1.com/news/798173/toyota-chairman-reveals-w...

tyreabout 2 hours ago
In your opinion/experience, why is it that they aren't switching?
mc330139 minutes ago
Probably a mix between oil-ties and the fact that decisions in Japan are made slowly.

Edit: I also think there's a fear of this: wide acceptance of EVs open the door to BYD (or similar) huge takeover of the car market.

chubsabout 1 hour ago
I have a theory: Japanese car's have excellent reliability, their interiors and design are lacking. If every car in the world is an EV, which due to their relative simplicity tend to be reliable, what remaining unique selling points does eg a toyota have?
cyberaxabout 2 hours ago
Solid-state batteries are facing production hell now, with lots of issues cropping up when tested at large-scale in real devices.

So they are not expected in meaningful quantities until the early 2030-s.

And the LFP chemistry has now advanced so much that solid-state batteries might not even matter anymore, except for some niche uses like aviation/drones.

chvidabout 2 hours ago
It is curious - you would think they would love it? But they don't - is it simply the case of the Chinese beating them - stubbornness and pride? Or is there something more going on?

Toyota was seemingly decades ahead at one point with their hybrid cars; but now they have resigned to a defensive position compared to Tesla, Chinese automakers, even the European ones.

yanhangyhyabout 2 hours ago
> you would think they would love it?

no. i just found it funny.

> Or is there something more going on?

I remember BYD actually had to design models specifically tailored to the Japanese market (k-car)—their preferences are honestly so bizarre. I think a lot of this comes down to their national character. Once external momentum fades—like the industrial transfers from the US—they seem to lose the drive for technological innovation. They just cling to whatever they already have and refuse to adapt to global shifts.People in Japan are still using Yahoo and fax machines(not to mention their own bizarrely proprietary text editors,Hidemaru/SAKURA editor, to compare, in china, it's also vscode).

Toyota is still digging its heels in on gas-powered cars, even though the fact that Tesla used Japanese batteries in its early days proves Japan was once ahead of the curve.but they always seem to retreat right back into their comfort zone after a brief flash of brilliance, watching the rest of the world race ahead while they continue living in the past.

hnavabout 2 hours ago
That's probably a good thing, the world needs appliance-like cars for markets where EV charging isn't there yet.

Meanwhile Toyota is #1, moving millions of units, something like half of them are electrified in most markets. A 2026 Camry, for $30k, gives the buyer a low-TCO, value retaining, 50mpg, 230hp appliance of a car. That's a rarity.

BLKNSLVRabout 1 hour ago
Toyota's first Prius (hybrid) came out in 1997 and Nissan's first Leaf (full electric) in 2010. Both Japanese, both ahead of the curve, now way behind it.

It is an interesting situation.

Anecdote: I have a 2014 Leaf, purchased a couple of years ago as the first foray into EVs. It's a great little car, perfect for the daily short trips for which we bought it. Use-case matters!

jazzyjacksonabout 2 hours ago
Japan wants domestic industry and specializes in things other than battery production
jeffbeeabout 2 hours ago
Every Tesla made in America contains 500 kilos of Japan's finest batteries. Honda may hate the EV but Panasonic does not.
rootusrootusabout 1 hour ago
> Japan's finest batteries

Aren’t all Teslas made in the US supplied with American made batteries? In partnership with Panasonic, for the Model 3, but still a Tesla factory in Nevada. And I think 4680s are all Tesla made, correct?

jeffbeeabout 1 hour ago
No, they are all 100% made by Panasonic, with Panasonic technology, in buildings that Panasonic master-leases from Tesla. The only thing Tesla has contributed is the shell and the sign outside. Panasonic developed the 4680 form factor at Tesla's request, by the way that program has been a major failure.
nkmnzabout 1 hour ago
Scientists found a way to extract up to 90% of oxygen from air! They call it “breathing”.
JumpCrisscrossabout 1 hour ago
> Scientists found a way to extract up to 90% of oxygen from air! They call it “breathing”

No, they don't and no, they wouldn't. "Inhaled air [at sea level] contains 21% O2 while exhaled breath contains approximately 16% O2 and 5% CO2" [1]. 24% recovery.

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8672270/