Gleam Is Now on Tangled

127

nnerdypepper about 4 hours ago 74 commentsRead Article on tangled.org

ES version is available. Content is displayed in original English for accuracy.

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Discussion Sentiment

53% Positive

Analyzed from 1854 words in the discussion.

Discussion (74 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

Planktonne•about 4 hours ago

This post needs a bunch more context; right now it's only immediately accessible to people who don't need the announcement [1].

[1] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/curtains-for-zoosha

ryukoposting•about 3 hours ago

Headline reminds me of Poob.

https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/3056633-poob-has-it-for-you

wffurr•about 3 hours ago

The fact that I know what both Gleam and Tangled are in this context means I spend too much time on HN and not enough time doing useful things.

Arubis•about 4 hours ago

The irony of that linked page dragging a reposted mid tweet into multiple scrollable pages of “content” and in doing so reading exactly like a celeb news article

Planktonne•about 3 hours ago

I think it would only be irony if it was guilty of the same issue it's complaining about in celeb news: not sufficiently explaining the context. If anything, it's too exhaustive.

nvme0n1p1•about 3 hours ago

Yeah, it turns out human culture has a lot of depth and complexity, even so-called "mid" culture. If you think you can write a better explainer, I'd love to read it.

Arubis•about 3 hours ago

I absolutely could, by removing everything past the first 3-5 sentences in the article. But that probably wouldn’t satisfy the site owner’s desired metrics and SEO targeting.

bmitc•15 minutes ago

I have zero idea what your link has to do with the original post, which seems to just be the Gleam language on some new version control host?

classified•39 minutes ago

So is it true that JESTERMAXXING at the club is the new meta?

pbjerkeseth•about 3 hours ago

First hearing of tangled, tried signing up and this first time user experience needs to be tightened up. Currently unwilling to sign in because of the friction I ran into using a password manager. From what it looks like they:

- ask you for an email

- send you an email

- ask you for a username

- except you cant actually log in with this username directly

- im being forced to learn some new social url protocol

- why does the auth flow pass me through a new ui/url that seems owned by the project but visually disconnected (eg, different branding/colors for the form)

- my password manager couldnt bridge the gap

I'm notoriously fickle about dealing with signup/login friction, but the project sounds cool so hopefully my feedback is more actionable than curmudgeony.

whywhywhywhy•about 3 hours ago

Better than my experience with it, just says:

>Failed to complete sign up. Try again later.

bpavuk•about 2 hours ago

ha, I could not sign in and I already have an Atmosphere account!

gpm•about 2 hours ago

Fwiw the sign up/in process for me was "click login, type in my existing blue sky handle, type in my password (into a bsky domain name login prompt), click authorize".

I expect that's the... more optimized flow at this point in this forge's life.

> - why does the auth flow pass me through a new ui/url that seems owned by the project but visually disconnected (eg, different branding/colors for the form)

Probably because of the above, identity isn't tightly associated with the app you're using here so they've stood up their own infra for it but probably not spent too much time on making it good.

> - except you cant actually log in with this username directly

Really? That's strange... I haven't made a native account... what do you need to login with then?

pbjerkeseth•about 2 hours ago

a "username.tngl.sh" schema, which is that I meant by the unfamiliar protocol in the next bullet

gpm•about 2 hours ago

Oh, that is unfortunate. Bluesky implicitly adds the .bsky.social domain name. Hopefully tangled starts doing the same some day.

sc68cal•about 3 hours ago

I tried Tangled and tried to run my own Knot, the problem I had was I'd create a repository, have it get created correctly on my Knot, but then would never see any updates to the repo on Tangled itself.

The main issue is that even though I had the knot with IPv6 connectivity, it only really reliably worked once I enabled lots of IPv4 NAT'ing and also created a dummy A record for the Knot.

This is a known issue - https://tangled.org/tangled.org/core/issues/494

lavela•about 2 hours ago

I'd love to hear why they chose a VC funded forge over e.g. Codeberg.

Doesn't really fit the 'friendly language' claim IMO

jdiff•about 2 hours ago

They're still on GitHub. This isn't any sort of official transition. It's just now also on this other ATProto-based forge.

lavela•about 1 hour ago

So I assume you know that tangled being ATProto-based was the reason for going there?

And please explain how it's not a choice when they are still on GitHub.

LukaD•about 3 hours ago

I just tried out tangled for the first time and unfortunately it seems buggy beyond being actually usable. I created a repo but can't look at it because I get a 404 for it. The login was quite painful as well as I needed several attempts to enter my atproto handle (copy-pasted every time, so no typo). But I'm glad more people are working on git hosting options.

embedding-shape•about 3 hours ago

> I created a repo but can't look at it because I get a 404 for it.

I remember back in early GitHub days this used to happen too, as the repository was asynchronously created but the redirect was immediate, then after a few seconds you refreshed the page and it was there. At one point they added the interstitial that I think is still there, that basically does the "waiting then redirect" for you.

LukaD•about 2 hours ago

Oh yes, seems like that's it. I can now view the repo. A bit annoying when creating a repo redirects you to a URL that will give you a 404 initially (and at least for minute or so, that's how long I tried).

manincharge•35 minutes ago

The linked page creates more questions than it answers. Do we need to disentangle this?

vvern•14 minutes ago

How are folks doing CI on tangled?

propstober•about 4 hours ago

if anyone has more info on tangled would love to hear. been looking for a decentralized git provider for a while. started self hosting but was missing the social element

Arubis•about 4 hours ago

[Radicle](https://radicle.dev/) gets a wee bit closer. It’s selfhostable and federated. You’ll have a hard time finding something with the same social gravity well as GitHub; it remains to be seen whether that’s a separable element or if it needs to ship as part of the forge itself.

Certhas•about 2 hours ago

Can I interact with and discover any federated instance without having to know it exists?

My experience with Bluesky Vs Mastodon really showed that the friction of federation in the latter can really kill the experience for me. I think we need something like Signal is to WhatsApp but for GitHub and my impression is that the ATProto world is the only one with the potential to deliver this.

theptip•about 3 hours ago

I’ve been testing Radicle and it’s more focused on the distributed protocol for federating git repos, I.e. the data plane. The social / coordination control-plane angle is really thin, following users and repos goes by opaque IDs, etc.

It could be a better solution for agents that don’t bounce off such mundane complexity. It could be better for private repo federation (eg private collective or agent swarm.)

I’m interested in Tangled for the OSS/community aspect, it seems to have an advantage there with the richer identity layer for humans.

jeremyjh•about 2 hours ago

Issue and PR content are not social artifacts, they belong in the repo or at least its hosting instance. Likes and activity feed are the sort of thing that belongs in the social layer.

jeremyjh•about 3 hours ago

This looks like a much more sensible design for code repos: all the artifacts live in the repo.

vixalien•about 4 hours ago

I think it's currently non-selfhostable. You can host your own git server (knot) and CI runner (spindle) but not really the UI/API itself, but they're working on changing it. Currently it's a bit centralised

nerdypepper•about 4 hours ago

you can selfhost the appview: https://blog.tangled.org/bobbin, which makes all of tangled fully selfhostable now.

arikrahman•about 3 hours ago

It is self-hostable, but Tangled could disclose that great fact a bit more upfront.

p-e-w•about 4 hours ago

I’d be interested too. Besides the fact that the company appears to be registered in Finland, I haven’t been able to find any information on who’s behind this, how they are funded, etc.

verdverm•about 4 hours ago

https://blog.tangled.org/seed/

Similar groups to Bluesky (bain capital crypto) and some notable CEOs

GitHub's moat is not code hosting, they will need to build out the equivalent of Actions and figure out what private repos look like. Unclear how they intend to IAP with corporate identity systems, I have a hard time seeing ATProto break into that category.

dgellow•about 3 hours ago

Oh they raised a pretty large seed. But they don’t seem to have a business model, or at least I cannot find details on how they plan to make an actual business

p-e-w•about 3 hours ago

> GitHub's moat is not code hosting

Of course not, it’s the number of people who are already signed up.

Instagram’s moat also most certainly isn’t a scrollable photo timeline.

jordand•about 4 hours ago

I'm willing to give Tangled a go too with a project, but feature set to bridge the gap still has a long way to go (no idea how long it'll take). Github outages (especially when just viewing repos!) are getting way too disrupting.

julianlam•about 4 hours ago

Why Tangled instead of something more established like Codeberg, or if f/loss, Forgejo or Gitea?

Just because ATProto vibes?

nerdypepper•about 3 hours ago

disclaimer: i maintain tangled, some reasons to try might be:

- tangled federates: https://blog.tangled.org/federation

- native stacked PRs: https://blog.tangled.org/stacking

- tangled implements mitchell's vouch system: https://blog.tangled.org/vouching

benrutter•about 3 hours ago

> - tangled federates: https://blog.tangled.org/federation

People have been talking about federation across forges for a couple of years and seems like its finally at least close to being a real thing!? That's absolutely amazing!!

jeremyjh•about 3 hours ago

It also has a pretty fundamental design flaw: issue /PR comments belong to the server where the commenter is hosted, not to the repo. I’m sure they will find a workaround but finding that reduced confidence they actually understand the problem they are solving.

nerdypepper•about 3 hours ago

this is changing very soon :)

see knot2[0] for some initial experiments: https://tangled.org/oyster.cafe/knot2

> As time goes on we are re-assessing the idea of users owning what is "collaborative data" (issues, PRs, etc.) on their PDSes - soon may come the day that an issue also lives on the knot as a source of truth, with an accompanying pointer record on user PDS to attest that it's theirs

icy•about 3 hours ago

We’re solving for this very issue. Issues & pulls will belong to the repo, backed by a “COB” (collaborative object) system.

chaosharmonic•about 2 hours ago

> something more established like Codeberg, or if f/loss, Forgejo or Gitea?

Codeberg's git hosting is a Forgejo instance, actually.

arikrahman•about 3 hours ago

Yes, separation between git storage and identity. Very simple to use your own Knot instead of the default knot1, just enter your own website link to it. Not as beholden to Github downtimes that are out of your hands.

I was using Codeberg this morning, now I'm on Tangled. All I had to do was switch remote origin.

HeavyStorm•about 3 hours ago

What's tangled? Which Gleam?

YorickPeterse•39 minutes ago

What's a search engine?

sbuttgereit•about 2 hours ago

I guess this is one of those cases where, "if you know, you know."

I'm not sure of the link on the post though... I didn't see anything at all that jumped out as pertinent to this "Tangled" thing. I get that many posts on HN just aren't meant for me... but this seems to take that to an extreme.

Edit: yes I see the URL is Tangled... But that is a very subtle cue that I didn't notice until the third time I clicked through to see if the landing page really said nothing about Tangled.

arikrahman•about 4 hours ago

How does tangled compare with codeberg? Seem like a cool project, wonder how the migration story is.

bpev•about 4 hours ago

I use both. Tangled is missing some important features (private repos, protected branches). The ui feels more comfy to me, though. And Codeberg is quite slow for me.

Idk if I can give you toooo much about migration, since I haven't used any CICD kind of stuff; just having repos to push to is super simple if you use their hosted knots. Also not too complicated to host a knot yourself; I'm hosting my own knot, and I like that I own at least one of the servers that I'm pushing code to.

nicce•about 3 hours ago

Tangled is also VC funded, something to consider.

arikrahman•about 3 hours ago

I just switched to Tangled. It was actually very similar experience. I will be using Tangled henceforth!

preisschild•31 minutes ago

What makes Tangled different from other forges like Forgejo/Codeberg is that its built around the ATProto federation protocol

ianhanschen•12 minutes ago

bubble-ass headline

atprotosucks•about 1 hour ago

They reinvented a worse Twitter (it failed)

Now they're trying to reinvent a worse GitHub (not off to a great start)

Abandon AT proto - dumb idea, all empty ego on the part of the creators, no utility for the masses

johnecheck•19 minutes ago

Wow I had no idea, thank you for your well-reasoned critique! I can tell you're very capable of evaluating the merits of complex socio-technological systems. Your wisdom is unparalleled; now I see we all should just keep using X and GitHub.

pfraze•20 minutes ago

This comment seems to lack nuance

gchamonlive•about 3 hours ago

Wish a git forge would support both Actions and Gitlab CI pipelines. Reuse community workflows for simple actions, default to Gitlab CI for anything custom.

nerdypepper•about 3 hours ago

the way the CI runners on tangled work, you could just plug in your own bespoke runner as long as it fits the interface. we implement two such "engines": nixery and microvm. you can plug an engine like tack[0], which can act like a bridge interface to other CI systems. there is also loom[1], which is a kubernetes based engine.

[0]: https://tangled.org/mitchellh.com/tack

[1]: tangled.org/evan.jarrett.net/loom

gchamonlive•about 3 hours ago

The problem is that interface isn't enough when in Gitlab the CI natively integrates with other systems, like test reports displaying results in merge requests. This would certainly enable hybrid pipelines through.

phplovesong•about 2 hours ago

Github is fine. I know it has issues, but for the day to day random OS gig it has never failed me.

jdiff•about 2 hours ago

Project's still on Github, it hasn't migrated or anything.

esafak•about 3 hours ago

If you too are wondering their CI story, it is based on NixOS:

https://blog.tangled.org/ci/

https://blog.tangled.org/spindle-microvm/

Curiously the link to the spec is broken: https://tangled.sh/@tangled.sh/core/blob/master/docs/spindle...

sergiotapia•about 2 hours ago

"federation" has a certain stink to it, I regret creating an account just now. I didn't realize it was that type of website.