When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

So, you move into a new flat. In the living room, there's five sockets on the west side, but only one on the east side, and that's planned for a lamp already.

Does it make more sense to

  a) put up your TV and gaming console on the east side, and have an electrician run another power line across the room (they can install five plugs there too so you can keep the lamp and even charge your phone, which is nice), or
  b) simply put up your TV and console on the west side?

I know parent didn't say anything about DCs, but this is a thread about power lines to data centres. Before you go out of your way to span expensive power lines all across the country to get the power where the consumers are, it's a lot smarter to move consumers where the power already is.

Latency for interaction with AI? For something the user use browsers and electron apps. A ping goes around the whole world before your pressed key is visible on the screen.

Whats the relevance of fibre optic latency to electric lines?

Does it matter for training?

Not all loads require low latency to end users.

Doesn’t matter for training or most AI use cases. We are talking tens of ms latency here.

I’m gonna guess availability of employees may matter more.

The main advantage of offshore power is the reliability of the wind. For example, on the North Sea the wind blows strong enough for power generation 80% of the time.

The East coast of the US has similar trade winds.

Plus the current admin is extremely hostile towards wind power projects.

I was looking at buying a house with big transmission lines crossing over the property. It was a misty not-quite-raining day when I went to look at it, and you could hear the lines crackling and humming the whole time you were outside. I figured I’d have to give up ham radio if I moved there, ha.

Which you would, if they were crossing over your house. Probably not worse than many other mundane things though.

There's a high-voltage line that crosses over a park (with soccer fields etc...) near me, and you can hear it crackling whenever you're there. I'm sure it's a noisy radio environment.

Over time as some dirty coats the insulators, and on high humidity days some kind of crackling is clearly audible in a fairly wide radio close to the towers.

Also, transmission towers are usually the best lightning rods for miles in a given location, and it is fucking unsettling to live close to them during storms. Not to mention they are an eye sore.

> potentially negative affects to sensitive groups such as people with neurodiverse conditions

People with neurodiverse conditions are not sensitive to power lines. Hard to believe we’re seeing this type of claim on Hacker News.

Modern high voltage DC transmission lines also don’t have 60Hz emissions because they’re DC.

Anyway, the land where these transmission lines are built usually isn’t running through high population density areas. They’re not slapping a HV transmission line right in the middle of a residential corridor if they can avoid it. It’s going through farm land and empty space if at all possible. It’s a hundred times easier to build the towers in those locations instead of near population centers.

Having zero knowledge about these studies I have high credence they are baloney.

I am going to say ok maybe possible but I look at how many transmission lines criss cross places like Dallas. Would there not be enough data to have already proved that thesis?

I remember the original issue with these is they were spraying some kind agent orange like chemical to keep growth down under the lines and people were getting cancer from it 50 years ago.

I've got overhead transmission lines in my back yard right now. It's really not a big deal. I've got a garden and a small shed that are directly underneath the lines. I have no perceptible loss in utility. Every now and then, someone will visit my property but I don't have to interact with them.

The nature of the easement can make a big difference. Oftentimes the power lines will be colocated with gas pipelines which tend to impose stricter requirements on land owners. It's a lot easier to do things like excavate when you can see what you aren't supposed to hit.

Lots. They are trying to build Gigawatt transmission to these

Sources?

There's a lot of people saying they aren't harmless but there's no credible evidence they aren't harmless. It's like flat earth, you know, there's no evidence the earth is flat.

We run power lines to everything else: houses, offices, commercial buildings, factories, and so on. Any particular reasons we should have a special exception where we don't run them to data centers?

Where I live pretty much every piece of land has some sort of easement on it: for water, power, or something else. Seems weird to me if we can insist that now everything needs to be frozen and no more infrastructure upgrades.

Data centers are a fixed load with on-site backup generators that can be used to shed load when the grid is stressed. Grids actually like that sort of thing. It lets them use more cheap renewables.

That makes no sense. Building new grid increases strain on the grid? No, it reduces strain, that's why they're doing it.

Are you under the impression people are not compensated by eminent domain?

In fact, a huge portion of the sentimental press stores over eminent domain are attempts by homeowners not to cancel the project, but to increase the payouts. Often the homeowners would be quite sad to see the project cancelled, they just want to milk the settlement via litigation.

Isn’t the entire point of this power line project to “upgrade the infrastructure to meet the new demand”?

Regardless of the computational needs to facilitate mass surveilance, there are inescapable storage needs precipitated by surveilance. Governments want to retain data because its value in the future is unknown in the present. This is the entire premise behind the Harvest Now Decrypt Later[0] principle that fuels much of the previous surveilance actions taken by governments. But HNDL is speculative; it either hedges on the bet that computational breakthroughs will weaken encryption methods to the point where brute force attempts at decryption are not financially feasible for most actors but still physically possible, or rely on a backdoor in an encryption algorithm to decrypt data that is valuable. There has been much speculation about this feasibility and value RE: quantum computation and also the design of encryption algorithms from the ground up (see things like the Clipper Chip and RSA's relationship with the NSA).

With things like video, photo, audio, and liturgical surveilance, the data is largely out in the open (or simply purchased from their hosting platforms, leading to social media and adtech companies like Facebook and Google being defense contractors by nature) and does not need to be decrypted (in most cases) - rather, it needs to be correlated. This is a great task for machine learning because that's what the field has largely been engineered to do for the last 60 years, but it relies so, so, so heavily on having data to both train on and use in its practice. Storage of all data is the perfect end-goal of a surveilance state. Storage requires data centers. Data centers of this calibre are effectively black sites in that they are nigh impenetrable in both practical and legal senses, and I'd wager many data centers host actual digital black sites simply due to their ubiquity as means of doing so coupled with the necessity of the hardware and facilities they provide that are needed for doing so.

Theres really nothing that will ever be publicly available that would say "this data center has a hundred thousand SOTA GPUs in it that are doing gait recognition on every camera in every airport in the world in real time" versus "this data center is a bunch of tape machines that store everything ever recorded from every facsimilie of Room 641A[1]".

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest_now%2C_decrypt_later

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

Video-processing AI can be very flexible in its demands.

Even if a camera supports 4k 60fps video, the 'edge AI' can downscale the input to 224x224 2fps and use a small network.

Often the 'edge AI' just needs to detect humans/cars/pets and trigger saving some footage to an SD card/turning on a light. It's not the end of the world if it misses some things or raises false alarms sometimes.

And if you buy a Reolink on Amazon expecting it to be able to recognise a face from 20 yards away, you'll be disappointed.

IMO you highly underestimate the amount of processing and storage video surveillance requires. There is just no good way to determine if you took that pen or made the newly illegal handgesture towards the wrong person 12 years ago unless you have enough storage to keep all the footage around and the processing power to search through it or prepare it for new types of queries in reasonable time.

Also, have you considered AI being necessary to fill in for missing surveillance footage if the cameras are failing (the ruling class)? E.g. the whole Epstein (PR) disaster could have been avoided if the cameras could have been kept running and the footage post-processed in time.