Pacing the frontier

Nukes are weapons of mass destruction that can only destroy or deter. Intelligence is dual-use/multi-use, with no restrictions on strategy. If we look at all organisms on Earth, species that are more intelligent are also more prosperous. This is true from bacteria, to insects, to animals, to humanity. Intelligence itself is not harmful.

There will be new adversarial games when everyone's smarter (bio/cyber offense/defense), but those games are always symmetrical in the long run, and there will also be new cooperative strategies. The reason some adversarial strategies appear to have an asymmetrical advantage right now is because we're too stupid, like how monkeys are too stupid to understand how humans work. Otherwise, we would not see more intelligent species being more prosperous as a general evolutionary trend.

This sort of cynicism feels un-falsifiable.

If companies advocate against regulation, the cynics will say: "These corporations want capitalism to run amok with no regulation to interfere with their profits. They need to go full steam ahead in order to show profits for their investors."

If companies advocate in favor of regulation, the cynics will say: "Regulatory capture."

If you have legitimate concerns, how about a constructive discussion regarding how those concerns could be addressed, in light of the "risk that capability development rapidly accelerates beyond our ability to understand or control the resulting systems" which over 1000 frontier AI company employees expressed worry about?

I don't think it's justified to jump immediately to cynicism, if you haven't even made a token effort at good-faith engagement.

>The moment they started adding "nucular" to the acronyms of "safety alignment" you could tell this is just kabuki at best. There's absolutely nothing that a chatbot will tell you that will get you closer to anything nuclear. It's a joke.

What are you referring to? Are you referring to this quote from the OP?

"The world is locked in a deadly race towards an intelligence explosion, where AI’s ability to create better AIs reaches a critical point, just like a runaway nuclear chain reaction. Going slower would give us much-needed time to make it go well, but no individual actor is willing to stop unilaterally. To survive, we must coordinate to slow down the race."

Your response seems to be a total non sequitur, or failure to understand Leo's point. Exponential growth can easily get out of control, as we saw early in COVID. The point about nuclear is mainly an analogy.

https://nitter.net/__tinygrad__

"there is a real risk that capability development rapidly accelerates beyond our ability to understand or control the resulting systems... each company—and country—is under intense competitive pressure not to unilaterally slow that acceleration"

>To be honest, I think people would now prefer the risk of misused open models, when the alternative is giving these guys more power.

Then advocate a muscular regulatory regime which reduces the amount of power they have. Tell them: "You want regulation? OK. How about everyone whose IP you trained on gets some sort of veto option on your models? That should reduce the racing risk that you're talking about."

This is the specific example in the latest doomerist wave I have so much trouble with: by what mechanism is an LLM going to help you design and manufacture a novel bioweapon? We know they cannot do spatial reasoning, and if they were this good at bio stuff then drug research would be absolutely out of control.

Similarly, how are you supposed to magically get access to everything required to actually manufacture the offensive organism in question? Are we all doing CRISPR in our kitchens now?

If you are that concerned about this threat then . . . monitor biolabs, not AI. It is so detached from the real state of things as to be bizarre.

I've written about this before, but the issue is that these people have worked with computers their entire lives, and they keep projecting outwards from there.

The 20th century was dominated by mad scientists (mostly Teller) and generals (bombs away LeMay), but one thing that I respect about them is that they didn't just sit and guess about probable futures. They sat down and actually ran experiments.

For example, in the 1960s, there was a whole generation of people asking "who's next?" after the US, USSR, the UK and France had made The Bomb. And instead of just gesticulating wildly and trying to keep fighting the losing fight of "classify everything, admit nothing," Teller found three smart, young physicists (postdocs) with 0 nuclear weapons experience, and indeed 0 weapons experience, and ran an experiment called the Nth Country Experiment, where they were were asked to make a design for a working bomb.

After 2+ years, they were able to. And so proliferation work shifted from controlling knowledge about the technology and the technology itself to materials.

Something similar was done with bioweapons via Project Bacchus, where they gave actual bioweapons experts carte blanche to set up a secret bioweapons lab with COTS equipment. They succeeded. This was in the early 2000s.

This then led to surveillance of specific purchase combinations and equipment. Because tbh, most weapons of mass destruction are commodity technology. Nuclear weapons are 80+ years old. Chemical weapons are over a century old. Bioweapons are god knows how much older. And it's not the knowledge of these things that matter, but intent, materials, and the ability to create them.

Just because you know something about a thing doesn't mean that you're capable of doing that thing.

Let's take bioweapons.

They keep comparing wet work in a lab to writing code on a computer.

When you screw up an exploit, you fail to execute the exploit. Famously, just like software's near zero marginal cost of distribution, the marginal cost of failure is nearly zero.

You can screw up an infinite number of times on your way to a successful exploit.

If you screw up with lethal agents in a lab? You die.

Here's a non-exhaustive list,

    Dora Lush died after accidentally pricking her finger with a needle containing lethal scrub typhus while attempting to develop a vaccine for the disease

   A 23-year-old laboratory assistant at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, was infected with smallpox after observing the harvesting of live smallpox virus from eggs without isolation cabinets at that time. The assistant was hospitalised and before being isolated, she infected two visitors to a patient in an adjacent bed, both of whom died. They in turn infected a nurse, who survived

   Ebola laboratory infection by the accidental stick of contaminated needle in the United Kingdom

   Researcher Nikolai Ustinov was lethally infected with the Marburg virus after accidentally pricking himself with a syringe used for inoculation of guinea pigs. The accident occurred at the Scientific-Production Association "Vektor" (today the State Research Center of Virology and Biotechnology "Vektor") in Koltsovo, USSR (today Russia).

Anything lethal enough to kill other humans is lethal enough to kill you.

And if you don't know what you're doing — and for this argument they're talking about people who have to ask a LLM "how do I spanish flu?," the number of ways you will die far outnumber the ways you can succeed.

And this, of course, doesn't even cover the cost of equipment, the precursors, sourcing the highly specific materials needed, then setting the equipment up... etc.

The same is true for the Bosch-Haber / Haber-Bosch process, which famously made WW1 possible. Every HS'er learns about the process and the steps. Steps that were classified once upon a time and were the subject of negotiation at the Versailles.

Does that mean a HS'er (or any adult) can set up an experiment that works at 177 times the pressure of the Earth's atmosphere to do anything at any scale without significant infrastructure and help?

No, it doesn't work like that.

The people who can do this are domain experts, and they've been able to do this with COTS stuff since the 1990s, at the very least, for a price of around $2M. And those people don't need a LLM to tell them what to do. In fact, they're the exact people who'll have access to unrestricted versions of these LLMs.

And from a security perspective, I would bet good money that flooding the FBI's tip line with junk about every teenager trying to learn "what be a mitochondria" does more harm to the effort of finding people who could be planning such a thing than it helps. It takes more resources to go through the mass of false negatives that have now been created as matter of policy.

These experiments have been run. And we can run them again.

The fictional scenario of someone learning how bioweapons work and conjuring up a plague isn't real and it hurts humanity as a whole to impede the sciences over it.

Because what someone can flail around in / do is learn about immunology / try to "cure cancer" with a LLM and hopefully get started on a long career in medicine. Or, a discovery that matters.

Because in those cases, if and when they do end up at a lab, screwing up doesn't mean death. Just tons of wasted time (and money). And they will fail / screw up. Just look at literally every undergrad in any lab and the expensive messes they create.

by all accounts this is what's what because of how...

> You can do CRISPR in your kitchen.

.. and because of the same dynamic we see occurring in cybersec.

If you're good enough at cybersec, but not good-good at specific skillsets like offensive, then LLMs and a comp sci degree makes you quite capable in the ways that count. This is a fact, full stop.

If you're good enough at biology and have certain ideologies, but not good-good at specific skillsets like genetic engineering in your kitchen, do LLMs get you good enough? Does the impact on cybersec transfer over to this domain? H

Hard to say, but it has enough risk indicators for me to think the pushback against these possibilities is the height of otherwise talented engineers being myopic.

If good enough at biology can include all the PhD programs across all the world, and you pair other known events like cartels and terrorism groups hiring chemistry PhDs from University of Unemployed Chemistry PhDs, then the next logical extension of that theme with this tech is intense.

Let's not swing from one extreme to the other.

If American hypercapitalists, living in Silicon Valley of all places, tell you that you need to regulate, maybe regulation really is called for in these specific circumstances.

I cannot fathom having that kind of unquestioning faith in people who have done absolutely nothing to deserve it.

The fun part is that probably happens quite a way before getting anywhere near to AGI, and it is almost plausible that for many of them that is where they are.

Come on, go on strike then! Have a week of protest and picket the offices in SFO. Let's see what happens.

(I'm aware that's not quite what you meant, but it is the classic meaning of that phrase).

There is no such possible binding rule either, a point that is so obvious that any smart person claiming otherwise is clearly up to something.

I've not heard of a printing press going rogue and attacking things.

When you are ahead, ‘slow down’ = better strategic positioning for yourself. When you are behind, ‘slow down’ = time to catch up.

I also don’t believe we have seen anything like 1% of inference demand fulfilled globally. You might believe differently. But, if I’m right, we are nowhere near some massive collapse of these companies, quite the opposite. For the opposite take to be correct, you’d need to believe that the ‘value’ of tokens will not increase significantly and that the current demand for tokens is at or near a peak.

I also don’t believe these open letters are signed by people that are all master strategists and just economically motivated. I believe instead that religion and money combined create strange behaviors and beliefs - in this case “what’s good for us could be implemented” — combined with the already endemic “what’s good for us is good for humanity.” Together we get really bad outcomes.

Here's what I know. Every day, I read a 5 to 10 incoming emails from young people in rural Africa, Asia, Europe and (heck) the US. People who have had no other resources and options, but are tremendously gifted and somehow got their hands on an internet connected device (usually a very cheap smartphone and/or cheap old computer).

These people, who are usually teenagers, end up getting connected to Claude, who then gives them a list of things to learn, people to contact, and helps them make things. And they actually do. They make robots. They learn new things and try to improve themselves and others. And some want to change the world / do groundbreaking research.

When you sit down and start pricing and doling out AI from behind regulatory gates, you shut those people out.

There are a lot of smart people in this world who have traditionally been unable to get access to resources and education. MOOCs didn't do much / help. But these AIs? They were born multi-lingual. They can talk in any language. They can tailor their responses to their audience. And they can help broaden these people's horizons.

There are no tutors around them. There is no one who is coming to help. But an AI that can run off of a small battery and a connection to a cellular network can give them access to genuine intelligence to make their world better.

I met one sixteen year old who was accessing Claude surreptitiously (by begging people) and was trying to apply some really fascinating biomimetic fluid dynamics observations to aerospace. This person was born in one of the more under-resourced parts of the world. And Claude gave them a list of people to reach out to who could help.

If you want a golden age for humanity, you should be asking for Licklider's Man-Machine Symbiosis.

AI research happens in benign looking buildings that could be doing a hundred different non-AI workloads, much of it things that industry or governments would not want 3rd parties prying into. There is too much to potentially gain to trust coordination.

Lol, lmao even