Back to News
Advertisement
Advertisement

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

53% Positive

Analyzed from 1121 words in the discussion.

Trending Topics

#solar#power#wind#grid#inverter#internet#https#inverters#more#possible

Discussion (29 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

giov4about 3 hours ago
while I totally understand the risk of foreign hardware and firmware, this is exclusively a sabotage of green power development confirmed by the methodology and speed of implementation of it.

blocking related projects by forcing a supply chain re-co figuration and disconnect from grid for non compliancy it's a clear targeted sabotage and does not mitigate the risk! -> us produced inverter with asian chips and firmware anyway!

this is only devolution and it can happen only there, especially WITHOUT a clear transition or migration plan that considers hardware, industry and infrastructure!

if more power is needed, and power costs are increasing, why force disconnect and sabotage development for green power? dont forget to do 1+1 with the reality of your state dear citizens!

lazideabout 3 hours ago
Counterpoint - building out even more critical infrastructure which might as well be coming pre-rootkitted by a known foreign adversary seems quite dumb?
giov4about 3 hours ago
nope, that's the defacto standard for the past 30 years and I was against it for security reasons, it was not dumb it was convenient in times of peace for many!

so I agree if my country would produce and enforce usage of country developed inverters with a correct and ramp up plan to reach that.

but hard cutting it without having the infrastructure and market ready to compensate that is just full "rword"ness.

and then there will be still parts of boards and chips coming anyway from external suppliers and being "fake" ?

what about the real crit infra beside solar and wind? what about the supply chain there? fully localized? 3rd party and 4th party fully audited?

is just a joke

cyanydeezabout 2 hours ago
there's no evidence for the countpoint; so it's mostly counterparanoia.
dlcarrierabout 6 hours ago
If they could prohibit internet communications and allow LAN communications, that would be great.

Also, it should apply regardless of where they are manufactured. It's far more likely for an attack to happen through a compromised centralized server, or a worm compromising embedded servers en masse, than it is for an authority to directly petition an attack.

Also, my inverter wasn't manufactured in China, but the Wi-Fi module was made by Shanghai MXCHIP Information Technology Co., so it's no less vulnerable.

tdeckabout 7 hours ago
Can someone more familiar with the technology explain how necessary it is for the inverter to be internet connected? This seems like the kind of cloud dependency that people on HN would usually be opposed to.
leonidasrupabout 6 hours ago
A small solar inverter doesn't need to be internet connected, but solar inverter app monitoring lets you track energy production, view real-time power flows, and check device status using a smartphone or tablet. So automaticaly you could get all the IoT security issues.

https://solar-assistant.io/

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/solarman-smart/id1469487897

If an attacker could control a significant portion of solar inverters in a solar dominated grid, he could cause an blackout, under right conditions.

More in presentations at CCC:

"How to cause blackout"

https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7323-wie_man_einen_blackout_veru...

"BlinkenCity: Radio-Controlling Street Lamps and Power Plants"

https://media.ccc.de/v/38c3-blinkencity-radio-controlling-st...

Large solar invertors at large solar plants muss be under remote controling of grid operators, to allow solar curtailment when the solar production exceeds electric demand or grid transmission could be overloaded. This is not specific to solar power plants, other kinds of power plants are also under control of grid operators.

With increased deployment of residential solar its possible that this controlling will be extented also to residential solar.

egorfineabout 3 hours ago
None of this requires internet connection.
lazideabout 3 hours ago
How do you expect your typical mobile app to work through NAT, etc. without an internet connection? For your typical ‘dumb’ home user, anyway?
lazideabout 5 hours ago
With sufficiently badly designed systems (lack of sufficient manual interlocks), it should also be possible to cause co-ordinated widespread fires and property damage or the like, with resulting loss of life.

There was a good grid generator demonstration years ago (aurora generator cyber attack), and most cheap inverters are likely even dumber than what was demonstrated there.

Likely? Probably not with current geopolitics.

Possible? Hard to say, but certainly unlikely to be completely impossible.

Security being the S in IoT and all, and most of these inverter stacks are pretty typical of IoT.

chrisjjabout 4 hours ago
> A small solar inverter doesn't need to be internet connected, but solar inverter app monitoring lets you track energy production, view real-time power flows, and check device status using a smartphone or tablet

... over USB or Bluetooth. Internet is solely for convenience.

lazideabout 3 hours ago
So is 90% of everything we use the internet for.

It’s also possible to pay my bills via check sent via USPS (for now), but I bet at least 80% of your typical utility customers use the online portal.

arlattimoreabout 6 hours ago
Smart inverters allow energy companies to reduce the solar power sent to the grid to improve grid stability, avoid overload conditions etc.
raszabout 4 hours ago
Its sold to consumers as stats & diagnostics. Companies do this to sell your data and in hopes of roping you into recurring revenue schemes.
dangoljamesabout 1 hour ago
What the hell does the FCC have to do witb power inverters? Dont they have some drone pilots to harass or something?
kotaKatabout 3 hours ago
Not like the threat was in the room with us this entire time.

Looking at all those APC UPSes that had the TLSstorm exploit and possibility of actual burnout and fire...

But sure. It's the evil evil Chinese shit that's the problem.

I feel so much safer knowing we banned things like Autel's drones, random power inverters, and Unitree robots, but not Autel's key programmers kids are using to steal cars!

Funny thing searching "autel teenager stolen cars" and seeing hundreds of police releases of kids getting busted with guns and Autel tablets and a shitton of universally programmable keys. I feel so much safer knowing the Chinese drones can't spy on me while the kids steal my car. :)

nicman23about 2 hours ago
i mean at least you can sue apc
chrisjjabout 4 hours ago
> prove their code cannot be manipulated remotely

That's not technically possible, surely.

jauntywundrkindabout 7 hours ago
Absolute cowardice & wanton destruction of the world, this. This is just a political ploy, on no merit, and it's the same anything-and-everything as the administration pulled to prevent cheap, effective, capable wind power from happening. https://apnews.com/article/trump-offshore-wind-national-secu... https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/wind/states-lawsuit-tru...

It's nonsense and there's no pretense, no data otherwise. The party of drill baby drill isn't about better power, about using mineral rights: it's about crony-istic state control of industry, about vested interests, about bribery corruption and grift for insiders. (That and/or they are actively trying to destroy the country wholesale, are barbarians within seeking only to destroy.)

I do think there is one step I'd like to see the world take in reply, that would make this be much funnier: "we don't ship the software, you have to run that yourself". Start an open source Zephyr IoT project for inverters, and just don't distribute the software. Make people just buy the hardware. I for one welcome the world where the two come separate. I think it would be a remarkable upgrade for humanity to decouple the two, and it would be bitterly hilarious if these batshit loons somehow end up accidentally creating the better world. I can't think of what other reply would have anywhere near the force of effect of making absolute mock, and it would radically improve things. This should happen.

leonidasrupabout 6 hours ago
I would not call offshore wind cheap, as can bee seen in Germany in the 2025 Germany's No-Subsidy Offshore Wind Auction.

https://www.offshorewind.biz/2025/08/06/germanys-2-5-gw-offs...

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/analyzing-failure-germanys-no...

Private investors are currently not willing to invest into offshore wind at market pricing.

Solar is much cheaper.

no-name-hereabout 2 hours ago
1. Solar may be cheaper on average, but the Trump admin wouldn’t have to be banning companies from pursuing wind and rescinding wind leases that companies had chosen to purchase (as GP commenter linked) if companies didn’t think wind was a way to generate electricity that could also generate a profit.

2. Combining wind with other forms of renewables can also be an excellent option as wind can also generate electricity at night, in more northern climates, etc.

klooneyabout 7 hours ago
We've finally imported European style technology regulation
Kim_Bruningabout 7 hours ago
Eh, European tech regulation at very least has some sane steelman published and documented, even if we personally disagree with that reasoning.