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#more#brain#thought#thoughts#invasive#technology#web#years#right#thinking

Discussion (66 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

mbgerringabout 1 hour ago
So is it just that these are people who haven’t personally experienced well-intentioned technology turning into a living nightmare? Watching the optimism and then collapse of Web 2.0 was a formative experience for me. I’m 38. Is this just naivete? What is this?
baron3dlabout 1 hour ago
Inevitablism, a fundamentalist belief system that resolves every moral hazard with an appeal to the inevitable. "we can't let someone else do this first"
goatlover31 minutes ago
Like Edward Teller wanting to develop hydrogen bombs while Oppenheimer was trying to prevent an arms race from starting.
soco42 minutes ago
"I will kill you now since you're dying anyway so just hand me all your money"
codeduckabout 1 hour ago
It's called being insulated from the immediate consequences of their actions and hubris.
Aurornis38 minutes ago
> Watching the optimism and then collapse of Web 2.0

What collapse of web 2.0?

Technically the website we're on is web 2.0 because we're interacting as users.

I don't think it's naiveté on their part to want to build new things. I think you're just jaded and hyperfocusing on the negatives.

dag10023 minutes ago
With some technologies, the negatives are so severe it is difficult to see how they outweigh the positives. Mind-control technology is quite frankly just asking to be abused. It's the ultimate relinquishment of power - you reveal your entire hand to someone else AND let them do what they want with it. I honestly don't understand how some people are so optimistic that they think this technology won't be misused in ways that massively overshadow the good that could be done with them.
kleiba238 minutes ago
To me, this reads as an attempt to raise easy investment money.
wuschel26 minutes ago
"Die Gedanken sind frei..." - can someone guess them? A truly dystopian question.

It is been 10 years ago when I looked through some research in that area. Back then it was the problem to get enough good signal. Has the situation changed radically here for non-invasive electrodes or portable detectors?

I understand that the approach would be to turn weak signal, context, and LLM based signal processing into useful human computer interaction. For everything else, I have the feeling we are still in speculative territory.

mosura33 minutes ago
I think this is actually marginally less evil than Meta Tribe. The whole neuro space is dangerous and while people go on about “AI safety” the world will trend towards this madness.

And this will provoke “well we need to regulate AI then”. No, you need to regulate poking around in people’s brains without asking them before that becomes normal.

dudefelicianoabout 1 hour ago
well she is only 23 so naivete would make sense, although it looks like she held some AI safety roles so...
symfoniq39 minutes ago
In the same way that “Anthropic” apparently means misanthropic, we can probably add “AI safety” to the list of newspeak.
cormorantabout 1 hour ago
Never mind "how could this go wrong". How could this go right?
Razenganabout 1 hour ago
Simple, think about going right
robterrellabout 1 hour ago
For some reason your comment reminded me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky-uzsw0kqw
yunnppabout 1 hour ago
Up and to the right, to be more specific. Transcend your one-dimensional thinking, Razengan.
mcfdoesdevabout 1 hour ago
My thoughts being beamed to a frontier model where they are monetizable (and used for training) is terrifying.
gorgolo42 minutes ago
They will also want to beam back the response straight back into your brain one day.
dudefeliciano38 minutes ago
it's in the article, around 2030 the device should be able to write and "make changes to the brain: hear audio, or tell the brain to use more calories" ...and later she envisions chatGPT becoming an extension of the brain like a sixth sense.
prerok31 minutes ago
The future is Borg.
goatlover38 minutes ago
No worries, I'm sure there won't be Flock cameras reading your thought crimes as you drive/walk by.
ACCount37about 1 hour ago
> non-invasive

Dead in the water.

It's like an omlette. Can't make a neural interface worth a damn without cracking open a few skulls.

jjtheblunt31 minutes ago
> Can't make a neural interface worth a damn without cracking open a few skulls.

I immediately thought, ironically, your neurology wrote that with a computer and HN humans' neurologies read it with computers.

Animats39 minutes ago
Probably more useful for interrogation than coding.

Under current US law, can people entering the US be subjected to mind-reading?

axus16 minutes ago
2040 : I earnestly believe that presidential term limits should be abolished, and also that federal control of elections is incredibly important. Not sure where that thought came from, but I'm certain!
cdrnsfabout 1 hour ago
I thought this was a parody when I opened it.
nulloremptyabout 1 hour ago
From the article.

>Thought-to-text, aka telepathy

No, that's not telepathy. I'd leave the term alone. Consider it to be reserved for... well... telepathy!

nyxtomabout 1 hour ago
As though we haven't done enough already to manipulate the mind, now we can have a neural model dictate our thoughts for us.
cormorant19 minutes ago
nice double entendre on "dictate", there.
goatlover29 minutes ago
We can finally have ads in our dreams like Futurama.
sam-cop-vimesabout 1 hour ago
Hmm...how do you stop private thoughts from reaching the LLM? Suddenly you can be prosecuted for thinking the "wrong" thoughts?
pbjerkesethabout 1 hour ago
Yeah, this whole area of UX scares me. Silent speech techniques could strike a balance, but it seems obvious it wont stop there - consider what a state actor would do if they could skip interrogation altogether?

Unfortunately I think this is inevitable because as a species we perform a steady march toward collective desires for items of science fiction, so start your adversarial double-think practice now.

dudefeliciano34 minutes ago
Is it really collective desire or are these products being pushed upon us? And why does it always have to be the dystopic "destroying human nature and society as we know it" science fiction and not the utopic "everyone lived happily ever after" science fiction? Or does it just feel that way to me?
dag10019 minutes ago
For a utopia to exist, everything has to go right. Dystopias are almost all modelled on some existing facet of human behaviour. Naturally one state is unstable as it requires practically complete co-operation in most cases while the other one is stable as it usually exists as some sort of undesirable equilibrium between competing forces.
podgietaruabout 1 hour ago
"My AI just sent my boss a 12 paragraph screed because I thought about how much I hate him"
andrethegiantabout 1 hour ago
Visit from CIA in 3, 2, 1...

The only thing I would actually want this for would be a dream logger. Extremely invasive and quite dangerous otherwise.

mosura31 minutes ago
There is probably good money in upgrading the polygraph security clearance ritual for the 21st century.

It doesn’t even really need to work of course.

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voiper132 minutes ago
> My GPT-7 agent... I become .... annoyed at the AI-speak in its first paragraph

When we have GPT-7 it will still do AI-speak?!

RobertDeNiroabout 1 hour ago
This is doomed to fail. Dry EEG electrodes basically only capture noise.
podgietaruabout 1 hour ago
"In a couple years"

In a couple years?! Get over the technical hurdles, do you think PEOPLE will be ready to telepathically talk to a computer in A COUPLE OF YEARS?

deadbabeabout 1 hour ago
vim already exists
hiAndrewQuinnabout 1 hour ago
secret counterexample. people have been failing to learn vim for literal decades
the_sleaze_44 minutes ago
Upon trying it for the first time more than 60% of people never exit - that's just great retention!
Apocryphon32 minutes ago
Probably in our lifetime

https://youtu.be/jroQCyWwEgE

drivebyhootingabout 1 hour ago
You know how a microphone can also serve as a speaker?

Can this technology also do text to thought?

chasd0044 minutes ago
sure would be cool to transfer memories. Then we'd be able to download how to fly a helicopter.pdf right to our brains like in the matrix.
goatlover33 minutes ago
Pretty sure that also involves tuning your motor control in your hand and arm. It's like thinking a download into your brain would make you a successful athlete.
amoe_about 1 hour ago
I'd like to think that actually-existing-telepathy would be a more transformative technology than something that simply allows people to do their existing work more conveniently.
lantry37 minutes ago
- telepathic communication with your computer

- still annoyed by AI-speak

What a bold vision!

baron3dlabout 1 hour ago
who holds the copyright on the transcriptions of my thoughts read by this hardware? what license to those do you impose through EULA? what privacy controls need to be invented to prevent literal thought police?
dudefeliciano33 minutes ago
if you get an earworm you will have to pay royalties
foobarianabout 1 hour ago
If it doesn't work try thinking in Russian
yunnppabout 1 hour ago
> In a couple years, the main way we'll talk with our AIs is with our thoughts. They will not be a super-smart automated intern or coworker that you desperately try to keep up with. They will be a natural, joyful extension of you.

Ah, yes, very joyful indeed.

Also, fuck those interns! They're just too smart to keep up with.

nee1rabout 3 hours ago
are you specifically focused on non-invasive methods/why? seems like you reach a noise barrier which limits things like this
foolswisdomabout 1 hour ago
From the article

> It’s hard to collect enough data using invasive methods. Few people want a chip in their brain! But non-invasive methods are getting much better. The hardware is improving and getting cheaper, though I apologize for being vague about the particularities of our hardware.

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platevoltageabout 1 hour ago
I can't wait for this tech to be incorporated into corporate productivity trackers that seem to be getting more popular.
m4ck_about 1 hour ago
Maybe I’m just demented but i feel like the first time I interface with chatgpt via telepathy it’s going to see my thoughts when the guy in the cube behind me farts or chews loudly, and send the FBI.

What a terrible idea.

gverrillaabout 1 hour ago
> My AI is a natural extension of me. It feels like a sixth sense and another limb. I wonder about a problem, feel as though I’m literally surfing the web, see glimpses of the websites, get flashes of intuition about the problem, and ultimately derive the answer. It feels fun! My brain is like the Flash. Because of write tech, my thinking is the fastest it's ever been even when I turn my AI off.

I read "race conditions" all over this vision.

rvzabout 1 hour ago
Translation:

"I am a former-OpenAI employee and looking for investors to fund my AI startup."

agajewsabout 2 hours ago
exciting! you could imagine brain transcriptions being very high signal RLHF data that could help align models more deeply to human preference.
slumpt_35 minutes ago
I don't think I've ever been so viscerally revolted by the vision of a company.
elephantstripes32 minutes ago
Thanks, I hate this.
morkalorkabout 1 hour ago
Why I'm Leaving OpenAI to build the Torment Nexus