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Altar II has fully mechanical switches, plus a magnetically detachable dial, haptic feedback, a red backlight, and a native macOS companion app.
I’m a heavy Mac user and I feel that Apple hasn’t given its keyboards the attention they deserve, in terms of hardware, software, and features, so I set out to try and change that.
It was a massive undertaking and it has taken almost 2 years to get to this stage. One of the main obstacles was fitting a reasonably sized battery into the chassis, and aggressive power profiling without messing with the user experience. Another issue was we couldn’t fit any components on the underside of the PCB because there was literally no space to do so (and there are a lot of components).
Around 4 years ago I posted my first keyboard to HN (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32507172). Its response blew me away and ultimately led to me quitting my job and making and selling keyboards full time. I’ve taken some of the feedback from that original post and incorporated it into Altar II (e.g. the detachable dial).
I’ll be around to answer any questions. Please let me know what you think, I’d love to get some feedback.
Discussion (109 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
What are you adding to the conversation when you complain about it? So it's a dealbreaker for you, don't buy it.
To @aemerson_: Congratulations on taking a risk. On first look this is great work. The attention to detail on both the keyboard and the website is really impressive.
Everyone would be better served with a generic USB hub in the keyboard, not shipping a security key with the keyboard.
CC @gtsteve
The one thing I actually like about the magic keyboard or Microsoft's designer keyboard is that the "click" is immediate and the entirety travel distance of the key is the activation bump. I dislike any amount of the "extra" travel distance (I'm not sure if I'm using the right words/description, but I hope you get what I mean) of regular mechanical switches and is the main thing that turns me off from them.
Oh also, is it possible to get a Windows version or switch the keys around to accommodate Windows as well?
https://keychron.ca/blogs/news/kailh-mechanical-switch-guide
With regard to Windows keys that is a possibility. We shipped our previous keyboard, Altar I, with both Mac and Windows markings on the keys.
How long are preorders/is the preorder discount available? I may seriously consider this.
it's a keyboard
It's not a miracle.
If you're going to have all this 3D imagery, put a glTF model viewer on the page, and let me look at it.
though to be told, I definitely want one. low profile keyboards are indeed my jam. I don't know why the hell keyboards need to have batteries though. No one needs a wireless keyboard. Wires are not that much of a pain in the ass. Coiled, self-retracting keyboard cables are a thing. Keyboards do not need to be wireless. Wires are fine, I promise! Wireless mouse? Sure. Wires make the mouse move when you don't want it to move. Wireless credential entry device? Those should remain wired, I think.
What is the click latency?
Is USB just for charging or can I use it without BT?
The switches look a lot like the new ultra low profile Cherry switches that Alienware was putting on their laptops a few years ago, is that what they are?
https://qwerty-lafayette.org/
Will there be documentation of its features beyond a standard Bluetooth HID, such that users could potentially develop software that utilizes the speaker and haptic feedback mechanisms?
I respect that you're doing a single variant up front, and I understand the business challenges and risks of going wide on a niche product like this... but as a single datapoint, I'll pay double for an ortholinear with similar features and style.
For a laptop or for a desktop? For a desktop the keyboard sits its entire life on the... desk?
And a laptop happens to have its own keyboard. The only people I know who use an external keyboard with a laptop do it precisely because they want a particular mechanical switch / keyboard layout.
Are there people taking their Magic keyboard with them in their backpack or car or whatever just to hook it to a laptop? I don't think many do that.
So you find a keyboard on a desk looks clunky? Do you need a "not clunky" keyboard to take pictures you post on Instagram?
I've got a 60% mechanical keyboard on my desk: its footprint is smaller than some Magic keyboard versions. And, well, vertically there's room on my desk.
People are programming on a 36-key keyboards just fine and they don't miss any keys. It's easier to press fn + something than reaching out for screenshot button, which is usually far away. That way, you don't have to move your hands.
Thank you, good luck, and looking forward!
If you'll indulge me for a moment, because I never get to talk about this stuff: the corner radii of the cards on the site are actually "squircles" rather than perfect rounded corners. To me this is much more pleasing to the eye. The squircles are achieved by creating a PNG mask which is then 9-sliced and expanded to mask off the edge of the cards. Another mask is used for the stroke and laid on top of the first mask, to give the gradient border effect.
As much as I’d like a mechanical keyboard for my Mac that’s always the part that gets me. I end up using the one my Magic Keyboard 20+ times per workday.
Otherwise it looks beautiful.
We could include _a_ fingerprint sensor, and even include a special secure/tamper-proof chip, but it would never be able to work with things like Apple Pay. It would probably be able to do some things like log you in to your Mac by spoofing itself as a card reader or secure key. But because we can’t communicate with Apple’s Secure Enclave it would never be a seamless experience.
Maybe someday Apple could open up Touch ID like they do with Find My. But for now it’s pretty much a non-starter.
What I'd love to have is a standalone touch ID sensor that I could attach anywhere -- mechanical keyboard, side of the monitor, under my desk, etc. I guess this is bottlenecked by Apple's IP on the device, so I've considered just hacking one together by deconstructing and extracting an Apple keyboard...
Some mechanical keyboards ship with an embedded USB hub that supports a couple of USB ports that allow users to pick and choose what devices to plug in.
I wonder why this feature isn't widespread.
The switches look like cherry ultra low profile switches. I’ve not tried these out, how do they feel compared to the linear kailh choc v1’s you used before.
They feel quite different to the Chocs, unsurprisingly. Although the required actuation force is close to the Choc Reds (40gf on our switch vs 50gf on the Choc Reds), because it's spread over such a small vertical travel it feels much "snappier". There is also very little pre-travel. It's kind of like a much sharper/tactile feeling chiclet switch with more vertical travel, if that makes sense.
The single wide space bar is an even worse offender than row staggered or qwerty.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-s...
or this that is in stock but doesn't exactly follow Apple's layout
https://www.ozokeyboards.com/products/jiffy75-wireless-split...
But seems like that is not the case.
(no affiliation, saw a thread on it here)
There are a couple of small quality-of-life features that do require the app: for example if you want haptic feedback when you receive a notification. This is because the keyboard has no idea what is happening on your OS, and requires some middleware. But all the core functionality requires no app at all.
To answer your second question, the firmware for Altar II will be open-sourced, as the firmware for our Altar I keyboard is. You can see the Altar I firmware source code here: https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-...
Both Altar I and Altar II firmware are based on the open-source ZMK (https://zmk.dev). We try to contribute back to ZMK whenever we can because we have benefitted so much from it. Two members of our team are also long-standing ZMK contributors.
I now own a Logitech MX Keys S and I'm quite happy with it.
I wish it had the option to be ordered with blank keys.
[0] https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/
If we did a numpad I would probably do it as a separate device. Personally I don't like how the numpad sits between the edge of my keyboard and mouse. I'd prefer it to the left of my keyboard or to the right side of my mouse.
What's with the giant numbers and tiny symbols? I know where the numbers are from muscle memory. I don't have the symbols memorized.
Haptic feedback when you use the command key? Why?
No number pad or page up/page dn, which would be something useful.
This is like The Homer of keyboards. Does it play La Cucaracha out of the speaker if you push the knob four times?
You clearly have the technical capabilities but the product requirements are bonkers.
[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html
Me and my preorder
The devil is in the details.
Do you have a french version? ...
This looks dope, looking forward to ordering in the future.
Does it support the globe key without having to use karabiner?
Edit: in reply to the person above because I keep getting a "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." error because I've made 2 posts in this thread apparently...
Anyway, it would be neat if in the future the M-Dial slot could be used for a fingerprint reader or something else. Swappable items in that slot.
If you have any questions I'd be very happy to answer them.
Rest assured we are building a sustainable business that will be around for the long haul.
Black/red is a hard no for me. Something fitting with the existing aesthetic (let's call it "Scandanavian milled", subtle frosting, white text) or warmer ("natural", off-white, orange LEDs) etc etc.
One other question: waterproof? I assume that's not possible. Would be a decision maker for me personally probably.