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Discussion (64 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
Even before that it had been jokes of repositories, but at least you didn't have to ask for someone every time and wait for them to respond to the request.
(that's my understanding)
Worded differently, the simplest way to provide the source code is IMO via a URL that you can just wget. At the least this is done by so many projects out there. Google refusing to do so means Google wants to violate the GPLv2, since their alternatives are inferior.
https://distrowatch.com/ has many convenient links to URLs on the left side; I often use that to download the latest and greatest and compile it away, e. g. https://ftp.isc.org/isc/bind9/9.20.27/bind-9.20.27.tar.xz as a current example, taken from the left panel.
Not an expert in GPL, but does it say that the source code needs to be provided by a url?
> Starting in 2027*, a silent update, nonconsensually pushed by Google, will block every Android app whose developer hasn't registered with Google, signed their contract, paid up, and handed over government ID.
I do not own general purpose computers that I am not allowed to develop software for without permission. I have always avoided consoles for that reason as well (Steam Machine and other similar platforms would be fine, but I've been avoiding consoles for long enough that it's not something I really look for any more).
I was a major Apple fanboy up until the iPhone. Left the ecosystem after the iPhone and macOS started moving in that direction as well.
I'm going to miss having a smartphone that I can use with my banking and EV apps, but probably for the best to get out of Google's ecosystem. Hoping that GrapheneOS will still allow me to use some of the apps that I like.
Judging by public statements, Google is one of the 3 big western AI companies. Surely they should be rolling in cash and working hard towards AGI.
And yet, for whatever reason, they can't help themselves from further restricting user freedoms on Android. Why?
I don't want to be conspiratorial, but surely it's not money, right? It has to be control. Someone high up at Google just seems to resent people having control over their own devices.
i remember jumping through crazy hoops to interact with a google open source project years ago. i wouldn't be surprised if it's just megacorp bureaucracy.
Can’t imagine Google is making the process of obtaining source code easier on themselves though.
Android has always been more source-open than “open source”. The vast majority of community contributions that make it into the codebase are security fixes and small bug fixes.
Everything else is essentially all the work of Google and (to some extent) Samsung.
We didn't have git tags when GPL was written in 1989, and while we did have sccs and rcs, (and early versions of cvs) they just weren't that widely used, and generally not used for distribution.
Even when GPL 3.0 was written in 2005-2007, source tarballs were still the primary form of distribution, even though it was starting to become standard to additionally provide anonymous cvs, svn, or one of the brand new distributed systems like git.
But these days git is the primary form of distribution, and source tarballs are noting more an afterthought. Hell, even tags are a bit of an afterthought on many projects. It's basically become the norm to expect an healthy revision history for any open source code.
Based on it's stated goals of "freedom to modify the software you use", IMO if the GPL was written (or updated) today, it would most likely require the distribution of revision history and restrict how much that history can be squashed/rewritten.
(However, that's quite orthogonal to being a dick about making the source code that you must share available)
There is plenty in Android which isn't the work of Google. For starters the Kotlin implementation and the Java implementation (OpenJDK).
The basic requirement is whether the source code is available - and made available. Are you certain that Google's solution here is ensuring that the source code is easily made available? So many other projects just provide a wget-able link. Why does Google want to make it harder to obtain the source code than those other projects?
> Android has always been more source-open than “open source”.
And what exactly does that mean? I don't know what your words mean here. More source open than open source? Is that a tautology?
> Everything else is essentially all the work of Google and (to some extent) Samsung.
Is it GPLv2? If so then I fail to see why anyone should get higher rights. Everyone gets the same for GPLv2. That's the whole point. I don't understand your statements here.
I'm sure this means the source happens to be open rather than following the spirit of open source.
The originally envisioned distribution method, in fact, was "Send FSF a blank 9-track tape and they'll fill it and mail it back". Nor, obviously, does anything prevent someone who downloads this from Drive from mirroring it on GitHub or wherever.
This is arguably bad stewardship of a historically open source project. It's certainly not a license violation.
> Google replaced pushing Git tags for certain source code with obtaining source code via Google Drive after making a request through Google Forms. It's completely ridiculous and they've gradually become very slow at handling requests. They're in clear violation of the GPLv2 now.
I don't think they are? They could just as easily require requests for the source code to be made through the regular mail instead of a Google form. It's still (maliciously) compliant with the license.
If filling out the source code request form via Google Forms and/or accessing the download link via Google Drive requires the requester to run non-free (or at least non-GPLv2) JavaScript, then maybe it is in violation of section 6 of the GPLv2 ("You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein") since the requester is then required to accept an entirely different set of licensing terms and conditions.
I believe section 3.b and 3.c are the rights this is referring to, where you can request the source, and even be changed for the physical act. Suggesting this extends to the license of the implementation of their contact system doesn't make sense. No method of contact, except physical, is going to meet your requirements, including sending postage, where the software used to sort your mail is not GPL.
I am very thankful linux is gpl. Because of GPL these tech giants are forced to release source code.
Here is the form:
https://source.android.com/opensourcerequest
This is interesting:
> We might charge you a fee to cover the cost of processing. Your request must be sent according to whichever of the following rules applies:
> Within three years of the date you received the product from Google that included the component or binary files that are the subject of your request.
That "three years" is the minimum named in the GPLv2: https://opensource.org/license/gpl-2.0
> What is "certain source code"? The OP seems to be GrapheneOS, which heavy patches AOSP. I guess the context is Android source code and its security patches.
> Why is the OP being so coy about describing the problem? Not sure what you mean, I think they are explicit enough. I guess it's clear enough for developers how an upstream update should go. If people depend on big projects like AOSP, devs should be prompt in delivering source code, especially when it is mandatory by license.
Can you give us more details on how/why you think the OP is being coy?
So right now I think we all probably do not know. Google MIGHT refuse to release the source code, but it could release it - we don't know yet. Someone has to test that.
That would be a violation of the license terms. All Google has done so far is, apparently, to make it hella annoying to access the source code (but not impossible).
If someone on HN has received one of these links, feel free to post it here.
Those kind of moves are petty but there are worst tricks they can pull unfortunately.
It seems Grapheneos is the rare actor willing to put up a fight nowadays, and their "partnership" with Motorola seems to be a first step. They need to ensure a hardware platform.
My guess is at some point they will have to fork AOSP, just because Google will take it in directions that go against Grapheneos principles.