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Discussion (43 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
https://docs.z.ai/guides/vlm/glm-5.3-flash#model-api
- costs per task $0.05 vs $0.09
- speed 130 vs 88
- where GLM has only 5 more intelligence point: at this point few point is meaningless for most of models
https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/comparisons/glm-5-3-fla...
Been using Luna exclusively since the price drop, and i've been very satified with all tasks from planning, writing code, and other agent tasks. (just change thinking level from low <-> ultra)
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btw, I did try out Ox Alpha, the coding feels good but still not way better for me to switch to it.
In general I really don't mind waiting 5, 10, 40 minutes. There's other things I can look at, other plans or assessments or outputs aplenty stacking up. Its baffling beyond words to me that anyone would take speed over good output. Surely the better output is going to save enormous time in the long run, have better outcomes. What is it that addicts people so much to speed, especially when the difference is between fast and very fast?
I signed up for their Lite plan when it was only $28 for the whole year (less than $3/mo). Definitely very happy with that purchase!
I have found that sometimes a smaller model with max reasoning is actually more expensive than using the next tier model with a lower reasoning effort. It’s certainly faster.
Probably shouldn’t say this here but I’ve been planning to up my $20/mo exploratory ChatGPT subscription to the $100/mo tier as soon as I hit my cap. Between the progress and quality of Luna and their continuous resets, it’s been a few months now that I’ve lived off the $20 tier, frankly waiting for the need to upgrade, credit card in hand.
I’m always trying new models, like many of us here, but the price is just so good for a well balanced, American, hosted model.
So Luna is competitive because a few weeks ago they did a 80% price drop?
Many here said that 80% drop was not a move against Anthropic but a move against chinese models and your comments indicate that's the case.
It's really simple: if they truly get to human-level AI (or even superhuman AI), then money and debts no longer matter, since our current economic system will be obsolete. They are betting everything on this outcome.
I don't know if they will manage to do it before their debts have to be repaid, but considering the rate of acceleration in the past few months, there is a non-trivial chance that they will, IMHO. We will see.
LLM has nothing to do with AGI.
PRC AI have lower opex and capex, i.e. export controls means they couldn't be trillions in the hole on inflated hardware in the first place. They only need to extract a few 10s of billions from domestic market have a healthy runway. If investors/gov wants to throw in a few billion to treat as utility, whatever, it's still rounding error.
2. people tend to ignore this, but the salary budget of a US frontier lab and chinese frontier lab is nowhere comparable, the first can easily outdone the later by 100x.
3. us labs, like other US style startups, always throw ton of money to capture the market. I don't see the chinese company doing the same scheme at all.
so, surely chinese AI providers also lost money making new models, but they are not spending nearly as much as US ones.
>2. people tend to ignore this, but the salary budget of a US frontier lab and chinese frontier lab is nowhere comparable, the first can easily outdone the later by 100x.
Both arguments make it seem like there's a double standard for american vs chinese AI companies, where american labs are held up to strict standards for profitability, but chinese labs get a pass because [insert handwaving about how some aspect of chinese labs is different]. Let's do apples to apples comparisons here, what are both sides' run rates and revenue growth prospects?
>3. us labs, like other US style startups, always throw ton of money to capture the market. I don't see the chinese company doing the same scheme at all.
Right, instead they're releasing their models for free so competitors can undercut them on inference. American labs' prospect of "there are open models 90% as good but cost less" might seem bad, but chinese labs' prospect of "there are companies offering the exact same models but aren't on the hook for r&d spend" seems even worse.
OpenAI and Anthropic are already in a ~200bil hole from previous model iterations and are committing to trillions of additional spending
OpenAI spent more TBPN than kimi spent on training K3
They are by all accounts, not. Z.ai for instance is a public company according to wikipedia. Moonshot AI is private but all their investors are private companies. Alibaba, as we all know, is a massive publicly traded tech conglomerate.
Moreover even if we take the more charitable view that they're controlled by the CCP, and therefore will continue releasing models for free, that seems as questionable as the prospect that private investors will continue shoveling money into anthropic/openai.
And the model isn't even shown in the speed bar chart just below. Such slop (the artificial intelligence website linked)