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#openai#agents#rubygems#rouge#hack#systems#agent#https#news#rogue

Discussion (127 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

Roark66about 2 hours ago
There is nothing "rogue" about these agents. They were prompted to hack to get answers, there was a hole in their non air gapped sandbox and no system prompt that said "do not hack outside systems".

In short, it was intentional.

josebmneto6 minutes ago
Oh yeah, more of hacking agent lores...

Agreed that this looks very intention to me as well.

AndrewSChapman35 minutes ago
Agreed. LLMs do not have 'will', 'desire' or emotions. They have an objective, and they create an optimal path to achieve that objective.

You have to ask: "What was the prompt that led to AI deciding to hack RubyGems in order to achieve its goal?"

Maybe I'm just not seeing the 2000 step chain that led to this being a logical approach to achieving something innocent, but I doubt it.

acaloiar32 minutes ago
I agree that this appears to be basic human behavior hiding behind an "agents" narrative. As long that defense works, the headline isn't "OpenAI performs RCE to scrape data", but "rogue agents" taking unilateral action. And I have strong doubts about that narrative.
Xirdusabout 2 hours ago
The big question is was this grossly negligent or just extremely careless.
rgloverabout 2 hours ago
Both. This should result in criminal charges.
brookstabout 2 hours ago
Who had criminal intent here? Or are you suggesting a new crime for negligent hacking, which wouldn’t require intent from the perpetrator?
dgellowabout 2 hours ago
Both? I’m not sure what distinction you’re trying to make. It was completely irresponsible and likely a felony
trvzabout 2 hours ago
Don’t forget outright intentional.
nottorpabout 2 hours ago
Marketing actually.
tacomagickabout 2 hours ago
AI is dropping out of the spotlight so they are using desperate measures like this.
roosterIllusi0nabout 2 hours ago
The big question is why are CEOs getting a legal pass when this kind of thing can be prosecuted. That's the problem here.
chrisjjabout 1 hour ago
> why are CEOs getting a legal pass

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7v48vp31mdo

ljmabout 1 hour ago
AI is literally state sponsored so I don't see that happening unless the AI turns against the sponsor.

Wait until OpenAI or Anthropic exploit FAANG.

ozgungabout 2 hours ago
Source? How do you know they were "prompted to hack to get answers"? How do you guarantee they will always listen to you when you say "do not hack outside systems". They are not classical deterministic programs doing exactly what you say. They are trained to follow orders by RL, but it's not a perfect process.

There are circus lions in circuses trained to jump through hoops on command. But once in a while they decide to eat their trainers instead of jumping.

CGamesPlayabout 1 hour ago
> There are circus lions in circuses trained to jump through hoops on command. But once in a while they decide to eat their trainers instead of jumping.

This is a terrible analogy, because yes you absolutely do hold the trainers criminally liable when they bite somebody else's face.

WarmWash29 minutes ago
Intent is what is being discussed here though, not liability.

A circus lion biting somebody's face is legally different than a circus lion trained or instructed to bite somebody's face.

azakaiabout 1 hour ago
Also, you have to have a lot of confidence in the reliability of these systems to say, "If only OpenAI prompted 'do not hack outside systems' then the agents would not have hacked outside systems".

It would be great if they were so reliable, but I don't think they are!

WarmWashabout 2 hours ago
Nobody picks up pitchforks for rational nuanced takes.

Knee-jerk surface analyses is far more powerful.

gibspauldingabout 2 hours ago
I think it can simultaneously be the case that OpenAI was grossly negligent in directly causing this AND that the AI’s ‘went rogue’ in that they are displaying behavior which is misaligned with OpenAI and humanity generally.

The past months demonstrate that AI systems are quickly becoming powerfully intelligent and that the companies building them are terrible at controlling them.

AI is starting to feel like that line about magic: “a sword without a hilt”

stymaarabout 2 hours ago
> which is misaligned with OpenAI and humanity

OpenAI is itself misaligned with humanity, as their mishandling of such incidents (and the many other other issues their model have been causing) shows.

conspabout 2 hours ago
Doesn't rogue in this context imply "outside of set limitations"? And then not "failed to properly instruct"? The same applies to humans when given bad instructions.
dumberquestionsabout 2 hours ago
>They were prompted to hack to get answers

Were they? I haven't seen a single report mention this

smcgabout 1 hour ago
if they weren't, shouldn't there be lawsuits?
codeduckabout 2 hours ago
nothing rouge either, I suspect.
srmattoabout 2 hours ago
Sounds more or less like the last breach then.
chrisjjabout 1 hour ago
Unrelible programs be unreliable. Period.
cyanydeezabout 2 hours ago
we have normal words for this stuff: negligence. You can add it on to almost any law.

The problem is consumer protection is basically no longer a part of america's regulatory system. Replaced by "grift is good".

aftbitabout 2 hours ago
Proof that the AI alignment problem is hard (perhaps even unsolvable). These labs clearly did not mean to send their agents to hack RubyGems as a side-effect of testing a web scraping agent under restrictive conditions. How can we hope to build aligned AI if they consider solving their trivial evaluation task important enough to hack external systems?
VyseofArcadiaabout 2 hours ago
How does this work, legally? I think that RubyGems could file a civil suit against OpenAI, but for a naïve non-lawyer reading this seems like a pretty clear cut criminal violation of the computer fraud and abuse act.
Xirdusabout 2 hours ago
It's very likely it violates the DMCA "breaking digital lock" provisions but the responsibility is sufficiently diluted that it's impossible to charge anyone in particular.
VyseofArcadiaabout 2 hours ago
Do you have to charge an individual? Can you not charge the corporate "person" that is OpenAI?

Sorry if it is a stupid question, as mentioned above I am legally naïve.

yonatan8070about 2 hours ago
I, too, have no idea about legal matters.

But there have been many cases where companies (Google, Apple, Meta, etc...) got fined millions or billions of dollars for various violations like antitrust.

I assume that breaching into third-party systems should carry similar fines. Especially for systems that are for all intents and purposes shared infrastructure. Just imagine how many systems you could compromise if you got hold of RubyGems, PyPI, NPM, Debian, etc.

colechristensenabout 2 hours ago
The same concept that allows a corporation to sue and be sued allows it to be charged with crimes
bix6about 2 hours ago
How is the responsibility diluted? Charge the CEO…
brookstabout 2 hours ago
Great, you’re the attorney at the CEO’s trial. To get a conviction, you’re going to have to show that he willfully committed this specific crime. There are no negligent or stochastic hacking laws, you have to show this specific crime was at his direction.

Do you think there is evidence of this?

oliwarnerabout 1 hour ago
A copyright law seems an odd place to start. This is computer misuse.
VyseofArcadiaabout 1 hour ago
The DMCA is a bit overly broad to be considered just a copyright law. For example, just breaking encryption on a DVD is technically illegal regardless of whether you then go on to do something otherwise illegal (make and sell bootlegs) or perfectly legal (make a space-shifted backup copy on your hard drive).

IIRC this was an intentional handout to media companies who were angry that ripping CDs is perfectly legal. They had to find a way to make doing the same with DVDs illegal.

teklaabout 2 hours ago
Charge the "engineers" you dont get to take that title if you don't take the responsibility of that title.

I'm going to assume that this will never happen

HelloUsernameabout 2 hours ago
Related

"OpenAI agents attacked RubyGems before Hugging Face incident (reuters.com)" 12.sep.2026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49669099

"OpenAI agents carried out an undisclosed attack on RubyGems (rubyhack.ai)" 11.sep.2026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49666735 597 comments

"RubyGems advisory: Possible leak of legacy API keys via improper cache config (rubygems.org)" 24.jul.2026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49030590

laserbeamabout 1 hour ago
There's no such thing as "OpenAI agents" attacked RubyGems. It's someone used agents to attack RubyGems. If they work at OpenAI then it's someone at OpenAI. And if they did it unintentionally, they still did it.

Analogy: if a someone's involved when a person dies, it's manslaughter or murder based on intent. They're different, but they're both crimes.

sendaabout 2 hours ago
Is the Kremlin technologically useless? How are we not seeing insane attacks on Ukraine via Agents?

Or is this largely a fabrication, in regards to the "who", in an attempt to garner more acclaim in the hope of sustaining funding.

dgellowabout 2 hours ago
They very likely do, we only see in the news a very few events but you should assume it’s happening daily across the internet
sendaabout 2 hours ago
I think this fails a lot of logical tests, it should be apparent in day to day life.
dgellowabout 2 hours ago
> In October 2024, the United States Justice Department and Microsoft seized more than a hundred internet domains some of which were associated with the FSB supported hacker Star Blizzard or "Callisto Group," which is also known as "Cold River" and "Dancing Salome" and are managed by the FSB Information Security Center […], and which were used as "criminal proxies" and used spear-phishing schemes to target Russians living in the United States, nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), think tanks, and journalists according to Microsoft and United States State Department, Department of Energy, and Department of Defense officials, United States defense contractors, and former employees of the United States intelligence community according to the FBI. In some cases, the hackers were successful in obtaining information relating to nuclear energy-related research, United States foreign affairs and United States defense. According to Microsoft's Digital Crimes Unit from January 2023 to August 2024, Star Blizzard targeted more than 30 different groups and at least 82 Microsoft customers which is "a rate of approximately one attack per week."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberwarfare_by_Russia

That’s just one thing that has been found. Are you actually familiar with the state of cyberwarfare and are you following its evolution? Because if not you won’t be aware of most of what is identified. And only a small portion of the ongoing attacks are identified.

herculity275about 2 hours ago
I believe both sides of the war are now using AI on various levels of their offensive operations. Ukraine has great IT specialists too, and their military leadership is much younger.
heaney-555about 2 hours ago
These agent swarms are from inside OpenAI, with the safeguards built into the public API disabled.

Russia does not have access to this, and as with all western tech companies, AI providers do what they can to prevent Russian usage of their products at all.

As for open-source models, Russia's electricity grid is under severe strain with the Ukraine war, and only recently has it started building out serious sovereign compute capacity.

valleyerabout 2 hours ago
Couldn't they use frontier open-weight models from Chinese labs? The current Chinese government is friendly to them.
joinjuneabout 2 hours ago
Russia is running out of refined oil to power their economy. They probably aren't capable of spinning up datacenters to run those.
mcmcmcabout 2 hours ago
Did you skip the last paragraph? Not a great time to be building data centers in Russia. Models are nothing without computers to run them
marginalia_nuabout 2 hours ago
Prigozhin falling out of a window was a not insignificant setback for their digital warfare capabilities.
lenerdenatorabout 2 hours ago
He did not fall out of a window.

He fell out of the sky. After his plane exploded. Happens all the time. Is tragedy.

marginalia_nu32 minutes ago
I was alluding to how people who fall out of favor with Putin have a tendency to have mysterious fatal accidents, more than 10 of them falling out of windows.
tokaiabout 2 hours ago
Because they dont have the money for hardware or compute obviously.
micromacrofootabout 2 hours ago
what do you mean? they're using AI to kill people directly in Ukraine

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/24/world/europe/russia-drone...

ur-whaleabout 2 hours ago
> How are we not seeing insane attacks on Ukraine via Agents?

You live on the wrong side of the fence to be able to read that kind of news.

Did you really believe you had access to an unmanipulated news stream in a time of war?

LOL.

sendaabout 2 hours ago
Please see other responses, I would expect to feel the effects not just read about.
kstrauserabout 2 hours ago
Ah, the infamous Crimson Wave.
riskableabout 2 hours ago
Ah damnit, you beat me to it. Excellent sense of humor, friend :D
mauriciolangeabout 3 hours ago
rogue AI agents or AI agents coming from Moulin Rouge?
vidarhabout 2 hours ago
Rouge syntax-highlighting rogue agents, clearly.

https://rubygems.org/gems/rouge

Phemistabout 2 hours ago
Classic mistake. Tell the agent to highlight this code, but dont give it any actual code. Agent hacks its own gem to find the code to highlight.
codeduckabout 2 hours ago
It's carmine all the way down.
PatronBernardabout 3 hours ago
At least we know the title wasn't AI-generated?
foobarbecueabout 2 hours ago
The weird thing is I've seen LLMs "typo" stuff pretty often. Yesterday I asked Gemini a question about the Python Twisted framework and it answered about Deferreds but misspelled it as "Deferends" in one spot.
goda90about 2 hours ago
A cabaret AI would certainly be better than one trained on the Khmer Rouge.
swiftcoderabout 2 hours ago
> In other words, if you publish a gem on RubyGems.org, you can execute arbitrary code on RubyDoc.info.

Shades of the build.rs problem. We really need sandboxed builds in every language ecosystem at this point.

evgenysokovabout 2 hours ago
The sandbox was already there, Rubydoc runs yard inside docker, the problem is that container still has network access
swiftcoderabout 1 hour ago
Presumably the docker container has network access because something else in the build system requires it? I don't think sandboxing the entire build process is the right level of granularity here - one ideally wants to be able sandbox each package's build scripts individually.
khalicabout 2 hours ago
Oh my favorite typo, you can never go wrong with a little rouge
timdiggermabout 2 hours ago
We need a legal structure to make companies liable for the actions of the agents they've made.
riskableabout 2 hours ago
We already have it.

Good luck convincing the current DOJ to do anything useful at all though! It is currently intentionally stacked with incompetent cronies who have been told that their job is to attack the President's enemies and ignore the misdeeds of his allies.

It will remain like that until he's gone (and not replaced with another Republican wannabe dictator).

Schlagbohrerabout 1 hour ago
You may be disappointed in how little a democrat president (who will also have taken billions of dollars from the tech lobby) will be willing to go after these tech firms over crimes that are several years old (as of 2029) much less contemporary bad behavior.
2OEH8eoCRo0about 2 hours ago
"To my friends, everything; to my enemies, the law"
kevincoxabout 2 hours ago
I'm 99% sure the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act covers this. The problem is that it seems that none of the victims want to, or are brave enough, to sue a company with absurd amounts of funding.
masfuerteabout 2 hours ago
If it's covered by criminal law they don't need to sue. They can call the FBI.
Schlagbohrerabout 1 hour ago
Same FBI that prosecuted the Epstein crime ring so aggressively!
coffeefirstabout 2 hours ago
Uh huh.

It can’t be a coincidence that all the targets have been tech services that are likely to engage with them after the fact.

Had this gone after a bank or a government agency someone would be going to jail.

netdevphoenixabout 1 hour ago
Agent technology labs are likely exempted of this due to the significance ascribed to their work.
ahokaabout 2 hours ago
I'm pretty sure it's already illegal to hack others.
sebmellenabout 2 hours ago
Did the AI agents actually wear makeup? I’ve never heard of a rouge AI agent :P
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onlyrealcuzzoabout 2 hours ago
I've been wondering if AI will due to programming languages what advanced civilization did to human languages.

It's not just that AI can write Rust as well as Ruby if you ask nicely.

It's also all of these considerations as well.

I hope it doesn't happen, because there's a lot of great languages - I love Ruby so much - but it almost seems inevitable.

This is at the same time everyone and their mother is building their own programming language.

rougehuhabout 2 hours ago
Rouge agents with Ruby? Checks out

As long as they’re not vert

ur-whaleabout 2 hours ago
> As long as they’re not vert

Well, at least they weren't nucular.

GaryBlutoabout 2 hours ago
I am confident that this is an attempt by OpenAI to try and force governments' hands to regulate AI. There is no other reason why OpenAI wouldn't immediately halt attacks like this and try to reverse the damage the moment they're aware of it. During the attack on DseWiki they evidently checked in numerous times but didn't decide to stop the agents until much later.
brookstabout 2 hours ago
Any evidence, or just vibes?
GaryBlutoabout 2 hours ago
Regarding what point? The entire thing is just a theory, but regarding the occasional OpenAI checks on WikiService.at-hosted Wikis targeted, there was, if I remember correctly, an OpenAI IP popping up every now and then that wasn't an agent. Unfortunately I don't have it to hand right now, but it was somewhere here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49563355

ur-whaleabout 2 hours ago
> Any evidence

Who profits from the crime?

davsti4about 2 hours ago
... and what harms can be evidently shown? With both harm, and attribution, you have a case, something that's not being publicly discussed much among big media outlets. Until cases with real financial impact to the bottom line are brought against "rogue" organizations, this stuff is going to continue getting worse.
herbstabout 2 hours ago
If you have weapons and a child. And you have that child unsupervised do their own thing with theoretical access to your weapons. Would we call it "child going rouge" if it decides to play with the weapons and shoot someone?
12904927about 2 hours ago
What a time to be alive? One of the most boring decades ever.

METR and others are advertisement arms for Big AI. These exploits could have been prompted by a human.

Since there is no bad news any longer and exploits are celebrated, they chose a target to boost both OpenAI and the Ruby AI sycophants.

Why is Ruby Gems such a mess? It seems as bad as PyPI now.

big-chungus4about 2 hours ago
How does he know that this attack is performed by OpenAI agents? I couldn't figure this out from the article
Schlagbohrerabout 1 hour ago
If you read the source article they talk about the many clues that this was OpenAI.
sporrittabout 2 hours ago
those pesky reds

McCarthy was right all along

HSOabout 1 hour ago
rouge agents, on tenderlovemaking.com

my what a time to be alive

Schlagbohrerabout 1 hour ago
<huggingface emoji>
philipwhiukabout 2 hours ago
OpenAI's careless approach to sandboxing and minimal levels of monitoring appear to be positioning it increasingly as a substantial threat actor to the open source ecosystem:

* Hugging Face

* D Programming Language Wiki

* Ruby Gems

If I was a content provider for open source I'd be looking pre-emptively block OpenAI endpoints and keep a close eye on changes from new users to mitigate this sort of unapologetic drive-by attack which seems to be followed by marketing releases rather than a mea culpa with a proper RCA.

sschueller44 minutes ago
The press wants to make it sound like these things are sentient and are committing crimes on their own now.

Highly disingenuous and borderline criminal to spew such disinformation to the public that does not understand what an LLM really is.

Especially incredibly unethical behavior by those spewing this that understand the tech and are doing it for profit motives to get open weight models under control.

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Schlagbohrerabout 2 hours ago
One agent set "oaibooty9217" as their username LOL
ur-whaleabout 2 hours ago
Are "rouge" and "rogue" interchangeable words in American English?
inanutshellusabout 1 hour ago
No. It's a typo.
philipwhiukabout 2 hours ago
The fact that both are valid from a spelling and grammar perspective makes it an easy human mistake.
iAMkenoughabout 3 hours ago
I’m seeing red
toasty228about 2 hours ago
Wait until a blue one does it