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#bromine#supply#price#semiconductor#https#www#production#market#materials#wells

Discussion (29 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

Animatsabout 1 hour ago
No, there isn't likely to be a bromine shortage.

The US is a major producer of bromine.[1] It's not at all rare. It's just that the cheapest source is the Dead Sea, because that's concentrated brine. There are bromine wells in Arkansas. It's a by-product from some oil wells. It's in seawater. In California alone, the Salton Sea and the SF salt evaporator ponds are potential sources.

If the price goes up, the use of bromine for pool chemicals and fracking fluids will be affected long before the semiconductor industry.

[1] https://pubs.usgs.gov/periodicals/mcs2026/mcs2026-bromine.pd...

chasil9 minutes ago
The problem is high-quality hydrogen bromide, from the article.

"Critically, ICL’s hydrogen bromide gas production, including the semiconductor-grade output supplied to South Korean fabrication plants, is manufactured at the same Sodom facility where extraction occurs, meaning extraction and conversion infrastructure are co-located in the same vulnerable corridor."

mmooss28 minutes ago
That's not what the article is talking about as a chokepoint, and it does describe US bromine production.
timschmidtabout 1 hour ago
Dow Chemical operates brine wells from which it extracts bromine in the middle lower peninsula of Michigan as well. Around Mt. Pleasant, St. Louis, and Midland. Besides all the uses you listed, it's also widely used as a fire retardant.

In 1973, Velsicol Chemical Corporation, who was operating in St. Louis, Michigan at the time, was manufacturing Polybrominated biphenyl fire retardant, as well as animal feed supplements. They were bagged similarly, and PBBs were accidentally shipped into the food supply. Which led to the largest livestock culling in US history at the time. https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/safety-injury-prev/environmen...

arjieabout 3 hours ago
I have a sense of complacency regarding all these. There’s always The One Factory In North Carolina That Produces The Essential Ingredient and it turns out that it’s just the price optimal one and there is enough capacity around the world to substitute.

Everything from Peak Oil to today has the globalized market/trade machine meeting the needs continuously with only leaf nodes for products being the constraint. Almost all inputs have been commoditized.

MontyCarloHallabout 3 hours ago
>There’s always The One Factory In North Carolina That Produces The Essential Ingredient and it turns out that it’s just the price optimal one and there is enough capacity around the world to substitute.

If you're referring to Spruce Pine in the aftermath of Hurricane Helene [0, 1], the predictions that chipmaking would be severely disrupted turned out to not come true because the Spruce Pine mine sustained a lot less damage than initially feared and was made operational within a week or two [2], not because high-purity quartz is commoditized.

[0] https://www.npr.org/2024/09/30/nx-s1-5133462/hurricane-helen...

[1] https://www.aveva.com/en/our-industrial-life/type/article/hu...

[2] https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/spruce-pine-q...

chromacityabout 3 hours ago
Ah, this week's iteration of "we're running out of sand". I'm sure one of these predictions will eventually come true, but we have articles that overstate the likelihood and consequences of running out of <some basic material> pretty much every month.

I'm not keeping track, but some of the things we ran out of include sand, helium, tellurium, tantalum, niobium, bees...

baqabout 3 hours ago
Nothing ever happens eh?
ACCount37about 2 hours ago
Nothing Ever Happens Bias has served me pretty well on those dubious semiconductor supply chain claims.

The main reason being: materials are cheap - plant time is what's expensive.

First, raw materials are such a small fraction of chip costs that even if the market price of a given material spikes up two orders of magnitude briefly, the market can eat the spike. For many broadly used materials, this alone is "end of story" - the majority of consumers will balk at the price and exit the market long before semiconductors supply chains will. And second, between the costs of halting production and the low volumes of actual materials involved, supply buffers exist on sites. That plays against supply chain fragility.

It's one thing to have everything JITted within an inch of its life on a razor thin margins car plant. It's another matter entirely to have a "potential supply disruption" in semiconductor manufacturing that will, if all supply truly and fully stopped tomorrow, convert to actual stopped plants in 4 months unless something is done about it in the meanwhile. And that "unless something is done" bites hard when you have a lot of engineering capability underlined by general price insensitivity. As semiconductor industry does.

chasilabout 3 hours ago
Ukraine previously sold half the neon used in semiconductor manufacturing, between Mariupol and Odessa.

https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/11/ukraine_neon_supplies...

mullingitoverabout 2 hours ago
This particular thing may or may not blow up in our faces, but as long as the US and Israel fail to take vast military power away from their corrupt despots it's only a matter of time before something seriously bad blows up.

Despots will keep pushing their limits until they get punched in the nose, and so far the only limits they've hit have been a few angry parades.

dbspinabout 2 hours ago
Boy do you need to look in a mirror.
varispeedabout 2 hours ago
Funny they will blow up the world, just so they don't face the reality of Epstein files and kompromats in the archives of Moscow.

Essentially cowards.

and the reckoning will come anyway.

themafiaabout 1 hour ago
ICL is the 6th largest company producing Bromine. The US, China and India are also large producers.

Why do I feel like every war is an opportunity to create artificial scarcity?

littlestymaarabout 2 hours ago
The more efficient a system is (due to specialization and removal of redundancy), the more fragile it becomes.

That's why biological systems look so wasteful (chlorophyll reflecting the more abundant wavelength, etc.)

a3wabout 1 hour ago
Title says that "Strife" could halt production, so who Strife, a payment processor or s.th. like that? No, the word strife from the english dictionary.

I hate title case.