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66% Positive

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#anthropic#claude#models#codex#openclaw#more#plan#usage#better#openai

Discussion (94 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

1unaabout 4 hours ago
Looks like this was restored 2 weeks ago[0], 3 days after Anthropic said OpenClaw requires extra usage[1]. At this point, it's hard to take this seriously. No official statement and not even a tweet?

[0]: https://github.com/openclaw/openclaw/commit/d378a504ac17eab2...

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47633396

Alifatiskabout 3 hours ago
> Anthropic staff told us OpenClaw-style Claude CLI usage is allowed again

Anthropic staff have had contradictive statements in Twitter and have corrected each other. Their intent for clarifications lead to confusion.

> OpenClaw treats Claude CLI reuse and claude -p usage as sanctioned for this integration unless Anthropic publishes a new policy.

Oh cool, so everything is back to business now, until they all or sudden update their policy tomorrow that retracts everything.

Anthropic have proved themselves to be be unreliable when it comes to CC. Switching to other providers is the best way to go, if you want to keep your insanity.

victorbjorklundabout 2 hours ago
Anthropic is really trying to burn all that goodwill they worked up by raising prices, reducing limits and making it impossible to know what the actual policies are.
notarobot123about 2 hours ago
Boiling the frog is an art form. You've got to know when to turn up the heat and when to let it simmer.
sitkackabout 1 hour ago
Hormussy started it.
bandramiabout 1 hour ago
If you want LLMs to continue to be offered we have to get to a point where the providers are taking in more money than they are spending hosting them. And we still aren't there (or even close).
carefree-bobabout 1 hour ago
I think this has to be done with technological advances that makes things cheaper, not charging more.

I understand why they have to charge more, but not many are gonna be able to afford even $100 a month, and that doesn't seem to be sufficient.

It has to come with some combination of better algorithms or better hardware.

bandrami41 minutes ago
Making it more affordable would be very bad news for Amazon, who are now counting on $100B in new spending from OpenAI over the next 10 years.
lynx97about 1 hour ago
I see the current situation as a plus. I get SOTA models for dumping prices. And once the public providers go up with their pricing, I will be able to switch to local AI because open models have improved so much.
aurareturnabout 1 hour ago
Aren't they just doing what Hacker News was trying to tell them to do? That AI is useful but not sure if sustainable. Now they're increasing prices and decreasing tokens and you guys are pissed off.
baqabout 2 hours ago
Would you please think of the shareholders
sofixaabout 2 hours ago
What shareholders, Anthropic is a money burning pit. Not to the same extent as OpenAI, but both will struggle hard to actually turn a profit some day, let alone make back the massive investments they've received.

Not that they don't bring value, I'm just not convinced they'll be able to sell their products in a sticky enough way to make up the prices they'll have to extract to make up for the absurd costs.

bruce511about 2 hours ago
>> both will struggle hard to actually turn a profit some day, let alone make back the massive investments they've received.

I'd agree with you, except I've heard this argument before. Amazon, Google, Facebook all burned lots of cash, and folks were convinced they would fail.

On the other hand plenty burned cash and did fail. So could go either way.

I expect, once the market consolidates to 2 big engines, they'll make bonkers money. There will be winners and losers. But I can't tell you which is which yet.

baqabout 2 hours ago
$20B ARR or so reported added in Q1 doesn’t sound particularly bad, they’ll raise effective prices some more while Claude diffuses into the economy, sounds like a money printer. The issue is they’re compute constrained on the supply side to grow faster…
arjieabout 4 hours ago
Oh that's interesting. Right after they signed the deal with Amazon so maybe it was all compute constrained. In any case, I tried using the Codex $20/mo plan and the limits are so low I can hardly get anywhere before my agent swaps to a different agent.

Somewhat suspicious that if I do this without an official Anthropic notice I'll lose my precious Max $200/mo account so I'll sit tight perhaps for a while.

Frannkyabout 1 hour ago
Why? Did they figure out cheaper compute? Or did they lose a lot of users, and now the compute is there unused?
eknkcabout 2 hours ago
I’ve been using codex cli and GPT 5.4. It is better at coding than Opus anyway. I did not really test Opus 4.7 but older versions generated worse results compared to GPT.

Which I would not even try and test though if Anthropic did not ban my account. The shadiest thing I did was to use it with opencode for a while I think. Never installed claw or used CC tokens somewhere else.

This is a weird company doing weird shit.

walthamstowabout 2 hours ago
OpenClaw says Anthropic says it's OK. Well, that's crystal clear then.
dmazinabout 4 hours ago
I got sick of the inconsistency caused by Anthropic tinkering with Claude Code and had canceled my 20x. My plan was to switch to Codex so I could use it in Pi.

I am specifically talking about switching because of the harness, not model quality. Anyone else match my experience?

I wonder how many other people recently did the same. It would be prudent of Anthropic to let people use Pro/Max OAuth tokens with other harnesses I think. Even though I get why they want to own the eyeballs.

redroveabout 4 hours ago
I’ve been using Codex Pro since they lobotomized Opus 4.6. Codex is so much better, GPT 5.4 xhigh fast is definitely the smartest and fastest model available.

For a while there I had both Opus 4.6 and Codex access and I frequently pitted them against each other, I never once saw Opus come out ahead. Opus was good as a reviewer though, but as an implementer it just felt lazy compared to 5.4 xhigh.

One feature that I haven’t seen discussed that much is how codex has auto-review on tool runs. No longer are you a slave to all or nothing confirmations or endless bugging, it’s such a bad pattern.

Even in a week of heavy duty work and personal use I still haven’t been able to exhaust the usage on the $200 plan.

I’ll probably change my mind when (not IF) OpenAI rug pull, but for spring ‘26, codex is definitely the better deal.

Scotchyabout 4 hours ago
Any alternative to Claude Design ? Tried Figma with Opus 4.6 but it doesn't come close in my experience.

Codex is abysmal for UI design imo.

dgb23about 4 hours ago
It really depends on what you‘re trying to do and what your skillset is.

But if you go information architecture first and have that codified in some way (espescially if you already have the templates), then you can nudge any agent to go straight into CSS and it will produce something reasonable.

gbalduzziabout 3 hours ago
I created some decent prototypes with stitch but I don't know how it compares to claude design
resoniousabout 4 hours ago
I also cancelled my 20x and switched to Codex. At this point even the Codex CLI seems to perform better than Claude Code... And so far I'm on the OpenAI Pro plan and haven't even needed to upgrade to their $100/mo plan. I'm getting more value for almost 10x cheaper.
tommicaabout 4 hours ago
I left anthropic a while ago because of the similar shenanigans they had earlier. I went with opencode & zen.

I still have their subscription, but am using pi now, mainly because something happened that made my opencode sessions unusable (cannot continue them, just blanks out, I assume something in the sqlite is fucked), and I cannot be bothered to debug it.

For what I use the agents, the Chinese models are enough

hboonabout 4 hours ago
Doesn't using pi be against their terms of use about having to go through Claude Code cli for all Max plan usage? (I had use Droid with Max previously, it was a great combo).
tommicaabout 3 hours ago
Probably - it was that kind of confusion that resulted in me switching providers.

Plus I like being able to switch a model.

serial_devabout 3 hours ago
My experience is the opposite of this thread's consensus. Context: Full time SWE, working on large and messy codebase. Not working on crazy automations, working on fixing bugs, troubleshooting crashes, implementing features.

Anthropic models write much better code, they are easy to follow, reasonable and very close to what I've done if I had the time... OpenAI's on the other hand generate extremely complex solutions to the simplest problems.

I was so disappointed by non-Anthropic models, that for a couple of weeks I only used Anthropic models, but based on this thread, I'll go back and give it another try. It's good to go back and try things again every couple of weeks.

Of course, I was annoyed that they lobotomized 4.6, the difference was day and night, and Anthropic is certainly not a company I trust. In my opinion, it shows their willingness to rugpull, so I'm looking at other approaches. Since 4.7, things went back to normal, things you'd expect to work just work.

hboonabout 3 hours ago
I switched to Droid+Opus (with Claude Max) many months ago and it was my favorite combo.

Had to stop because they don't like us proxying requests anymore.

benjx88about 3 hours ago
Because the Harness is the Moat and key IP not the Models themselves that is the why! now for both OpenAI and Anthropic with all their money raised and the compute they acquire and have in the books of course no one can easily replicate, whom can afford all those datacenters and Nvidia GPUs interconnected is why OpenAI throws you a bone and gives you an Open Source SDK Harness but not the one they actually use for ChatGPT. But now both of them have to deliver and do all the bull-shet they said this models can do... truth is they cannot. So now the bubbles burst and we will see what happens. We all have to buy iPhones or MacBooks so that makes sense, we all use Chrome or Google Search, Instagram, TikTok.

All these models and agents are shortcuts for all of us to be lazy and play games and watch YouTube or Netflix because we use them to work-less, well the party will be over soon.

EFLKumoabout 2 hours ago
Whether to allow Claude subscription to access other services or not, at this point, anthropic seems to be schizophrenic, sometimes worried about insufficient computing power and sometimes worried about user loss, which is puzzling.
baobabKoodaaabout 2 hours ago
Almost seems like business leaders have to balance different aspirations and make tradeoffs. Unbelieveable.
ralusekabout 2 hours ago
What's puzzling or schizophrenic about that? Those seem like two very natural factors that would be in tension with one another and have to be balanced.
throwup238about 4 hours ago
I don’t think I’ve seen a more confused and shambolic product strategy since Google’s absurd line of GChat rebrandings.

Last year I was excited about the constant forward progress on models but since February or so its just been a mess and I want off this ride.

Either way I’m going to wait for “official” word from Anthropic, which I guess at this point will probably be a “Tell HN” or Reddit text post or a Xitter from some random employee’s personal account, because apparently that’s the state of corporate communication now.

benjx88about 4 hours ago
Is the tail end of the bubble, is just ridiculous things now. Models cannot made leap-improvements and now you have the enterprise to deal with and for enterprise is not about disruption so you can't break the wheel, you just need to make everyone work less.

But the bills comes thru, one has to pay AWS cause you need the servers, but pay AI agents that make mistake and everyone hopes they work just by typing and saying do x or y. And now they actually invented and engineering and deploy something called Adaptive Thinking and the models can allocate allocate zero reasoning tokens. Its game over, but it was over regardless, there is nothing special about models and they trained them now even with YouTube and soon to be Twitter(X), TikTok and bullshit. Now all those Nvidia GPUs interconnected via NVLink definitely powerful super computers, but the "software" let alone the "AI" is not there yet and OpenAI is worth close to 1 Trillions Dollars ... I mean come on!

dhoeabout 3 hours ago
I didn't even use openclaw and Anthropic disabled my account without explanation beyond "suspicious signals". If anyone found a way to get out of that, I'd be curious to hear it - genuinely no idea what I did wrong, and the Google docs form I filled out to appeal never got me any reply.
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jorisboris44 minutes ago
Swapped my OpenClaw to Claude again. I played around with Gemini and Chinese models in past month but it didn’t work for me.
solomonbabout 2 hours ago
Does this mean you can use openclaw with a Claude Pro account? I'm curious try it but no way i'm going to pay API rates.
tristanbabout 4 hours ago
Maybe it’s allowed because they built the ability to direct the costs to your extra usage budget, not your monthly subscription?
djydeabout 2 hours ago
题外话,你们不觉得在 openclaw 里用 claude 相当浪费 token 吗?
darylteoabout 4 hours ago
Correction: OpenClaw says Anthropic says OpenClaw-style Claude CLI usage is okay again.
etermabout 3 hours ago
And then recommends to use an API key, which as far as I know was never restricted, it was trying to use the subscription that was prohibited/limited.

I'm confused by the comments being full of people swearing off Claude, feels like real HN bubble stuff.

jollymonATXabout 4 hours ago
How can they be this bad at this? What was all that about then?
mlitwiniukabout 2 hours ago
This is a perfect example of how quickly you can burn through trust that took a long time to earn. I used to be - in my small circle of friends and peers - a genuine advocate for Anthropic and Claude. It was my sole AI assistant for over a year. But somewhere around February/March, something shifted. Declining quality, policy changes, inconsistent output. Nothing dramatic, just... a slow erosion.

That erosion pushed me to try Codex. I signed up for their most expensive pro plan. Now I'm about to experiment with Kimi. I'm not saying they're better (well, sometimes they are). But here's the thing - what Anthropic did is they made me look. They made a loyal customer start shopping around. And I think that's the worst thing you can do.

Having said that - as an LLM provider for my product, we're staying with Claude. I still trust in their ethics. Please don't prove me wrong.

kilroy12344 minutes ago
Same here. I've been on the Claude Max 20x plan for a while. Now I'm really giving codex a try and looking at the cheaper models as well.
layoricabout 2 hours ago
I'm trying out codex for first time as well cause something up with Claude for sure, 4.7 has been super frustrating. For other models, highly recommend trying MiniMax 2.7, using it with Hermes is actually pretty good, and their token subscription plans include a lot of usage for $10.
mlitwiniukabout 1 hour ago
Perfect, thanks. Codex app sucks, but I've been exploring opencode for that. Will try MiniMax!
baqabout 2 hours ago
Enshittification 101, codex is undergoing the same thing on a 3 month lag.
mlitwiniukabout 1 hour ago
Haha, thanks for the heads-up
jedisct139 minutes ago
And tomorrow, it won't be allowed any more and accounts will be closed without prior notice.

Use something else.

swyxabout 4 hours ago
a more authoritative source (aka a tweet) woudl be nice.
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brandensilvaabout 4 hours ago
The sentient had already sailed. It's hard to trust Anthropic here given the ringer they have dragged us through.

Contrast that to what GitHub did which was to pause new customers to ensure quality remained and things were stable.

GodelNumberingabout 2 hours ago
How about third party coding harnesses?
aqme28about 2 hours ago
Or Claw-like harnesses that we make ourselves? It takes honestly like 15 minutes to roll your own, so I did it thinking "well, hopefully it's not considered third party"
sitkackabout 1 hour ago
I do claw like things all the time. Give CC an API document and it figures out how to take a snapshot of the data. Pulls it down and does an analysis.
waynevdmabout 2 hours ago
Did they disable this to give them time to come out with their own agent?
imhoguyabout 2 hours ago
Would that apply to OpenCode too?
gregman1about 3 hours ago
Canceled anyway.
imronabout 4 hours ago
Can we get OpenCode support back as well?
mentalgearabout 2 hours ago
Bad Decision.
Havocabout 2 hours ago
Same PR strategy as the US administration lol
jarymabout 4 hours ago
Pfft. Damage done, users know that Anthrophic will pull the rug from under them again if given half a chance. So yea, plan accordingly.
azmzabout 3 hours ago
The rug-pull risk is why each of my automations has its own model setting, so swapping a given one from Claude to GPT is a dropdown instead of a rebuild.\n\nRuns as a cloud service, so nothing to maintain locally. Built it at atmita.com if useful.
darrenc81about 2 hours ago
Great so now we can all look forward to Claude progressively getting reduced limits again. How long till the $1000 ultra plan... or they just want us all paying API credits instead
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saltyoldmanabout 2 hours ago
I guess it doesn't matter any more, everyone bought all the mac minis