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#insider#markets#information#trading#classified#prediction#law#fraud#https#government

Discussion (106 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

sigmarabout 3 hours ago
Since this is relevant to many HN comments, copy-pasted the charges from the pdf indictment in the linked page:

Count 1 - Unlawful Use of Confidential Government Information for Personal Gain

Count 2 - Theft of Nonpublic Government Information

Count 3 - Commodities Fraud

Count 4 - Wire Fraud

Count 5 - Engaging in a Monetary Transaction in Property Derived from Specified Unlawful Activity

jcgrilloabout 3 hours ago
It's interesting they don't think they can get him for leaking classified information. To me that seems like the biggest issue--I mean sure, it's bad he made money on it, but it would have been really bad if he'd gotten someone killed by blabbing to the internet.
enointabout 2 hours ago
If that happened, could they retroactively classify it?
jcgrilloabout 1 hour ago
Maybe I'm making an incorrect assumption, but I assumed the information was already classified. He was betting on an outcome of a planned military operation based on his knowledge of those plans. My assumption is that information is super closely guarded, and likely classified at a high level. Telegraphing your invasion plans is generally not something you do unless you want disaster, right?
testing22321about 1 hour ago
You’re just seeing, clearly, the priorities of the US.

Is it helping sick citizens? No. Is it feeding the hungry? No. Free education, housing the un housed or protecting the environment? No, no , no.

To be perfectly clear, it’s not giving vets the benefits they deserve or keeping soldiers safe either.

Money. The priority is money.

Getting it. And making sure those that don’t have it don’t get it.

jh00kerabout 4 hours ago
How many people in congress made the exact same bet on the exact same information, and for them it's "legal?"
int32_64about 3 hours ago
It seems like it would be highly demoralizing to US soldiers that they are prosecuted for betting on the outcomes of the battles they are risking their lives for but those insider trading commanding them aren't.
herewulfabout 3 hours ago
Imagine doing an easy tour in your air conditioned Kuwaiti logistics office and then getting blown to bits by a ballistic missile because no one bothered to tell you about the war that was being initiated which would cause such missiles in retaliation. Yeah, that's demoralizing too.
int32_64about 2 hours ago
There will be derivative contracts of prediction markets to predict if an insider is indicted for betting on a specific prediction.

And those prediction markets will have derivative markets to predict if an insider in the prosecutor's office bet on that contract.

And those prediction markets will have derivative markets to predict if a special prosecutor will prosecute the other prosecutor.

And those prediction markets will have derivative markets to predict if an insider in the special prosecutor's office bet on the other contract.

(additional derivative markets will exist up to the divine wrath of god).

SparkyMcUnicornabout 3 hours ago
They should have kept an eye on the prediction markets.
enointabout 2 hours ago
Or, your brigade’s master sergeant needs the invasion to hit on the 28th rather than Mar 1st.
mrtksnabout 3 hours ago
Are prediction markets regulated? Is this about breaking the laws regarding prediction markets or is this about leaking classified information? I skimmed but not sure still.

Someone more cynical can say that this is about protecting Thiel’s investment(if people think it’s rigged may stop playing) or making sure that only big G makes money with classified information.

akudhaabout 3 hours ago
HWR_1439 minutes ago
Kalshi is regulated and trading in this way on Kalshi is explicitly illegal. PolyMarket does not operate under US laws and I don't know if the same insider trading rules are a separate violation on top of just participating.
garciasnabout 3 hours ago
From the article:

unlawful use of confidential government information for personal gain, theft of nonpublic government information, commodities fraud, wire fraud, and making an unlawful monetary transaction.

mrtksnabout 3 hours ago
So what law is broken exactly? Will an engineer with classified information on F-35 use that for fixing his car be also prosecuted? I guess no, so is this about leaking the Maduro operation?

Insider trading and outcome manipulation seems to be the norm on unregulated markets anyway. Whats the crime?

mlazosabout 3 hours ago
By the letter of the law the guy fixing his car should be prosecuted, but like nobody is going to know and it’s not going to happen. In this case it’s pretty obvious the law was broken.
k310about 4 hours ago
Nabbing the little guy for show, very much like Henry Hill taking one for Paulie and the gang. The same gang that robbed the Lufthansa vault at JFK Airport, stealing six million dollars in cash and jewelry.

When the history of this administration is written, provided that history itself has not been completely rewritten a la "1984," Goodfellas will be required reading/watching.

And the highly profitable daily mood-induced oil price bets will just be forgotten.

Wilhoit's Law:

Wilhoit's law.

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”

https://pylimitics.net/wilhoits-law/

nickburnsabout 4 hours ago
[delayed]
RhysUabout 4 hours ago
Wilholt's essay is a nice one. But it amounts to defining the opposition in a way that's easy to tear apart followed by tearing it apart. It's a cute trick but isn't much of a basis for serious discussion.

Watch: Wilholt's essay consists of exactly and only one indefensible, rhetorical sleight of hand. Consequently, no one can honestly defend it.

paulpauperabout 4 hours ago
I made a similar argument and was downvoted. Yeah, the well-connected pay a fine when caught. This guy's mistake was not knowing he did not belong to that club. He amounted to no more than a fall guy.
doom2about 1 hour ago
I thought prodiction markets benefit from insider knowledge. Isn't the whole point that insiders make bets, thereby surfacing knowledge and allowing for more accurate forecasts? So wouldn't we want more military service members making bets? In this case, any potential military target of the US would really want this insider info.
markus_zhangabout 2 hours ago
We all know there were suspicious large bets on the stock and oil markets during the war.

If small potatoes are getting sued while the sharks swim freely. I don’t know what’s going to happen to the moral.

gnabgibabout 5 hours ago
CNN (9 points) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47882645

ABCnews (5 points, a comment from you) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47882789

justice.gov (1 point, you've duped here) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47883034

dansoabout 2 hours ago
It’s arguable that opening the doors for greedy soldiers to do a little insider trading and inadvertently expose the illegal covert violent raid that they’re party to might be one of the few positive outcomes in a society gamified by Polymarket
penguin_boozeabout 2 hours ago
Coming up: US supreme court declares insider trading constitutinal.
heavyset_goabout 1 hour ago
Silly prole, insider trading is a white collar crime reserved for your betters. Time to learn your place.
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StrangeCloneabout 1 hour ago
Congress is protected but soliders arent from profiting. Why are laws so biased?
hettygreenabout 2 hours ago
Cha-Ching! I bet $2000 that this guy was going to get charged.
AngryDataabout 3 hours ago
Perfectly fine for the rich and powerful, but don't you average citizen dare do anything like it! The US law and justice system is a complete joke.
loegabout 1 hour ago
This is also illegal for any rich or powerful service members.
chatmastaabout 4 hours ago
I thought the names in the opening were the people being charged. Then I realized they were the prosecutors.
KnuthIsGodabout 3 hours ago
Never underestimate the ingenuity of the American soldier !
mil22about 3 hours ago
So crypto fraud gets deprioritized, with cases like the one against Nader Al-Naji dropped entirely, while Trump and his family profit massively from crypto and corruption themselves.

Yet prediction market fraud is made an enforcement priority, except to say that nobody close to Trump's own cabinet will be prosecuted - the little guys will be made an example of to make it seem like those at the top are taking the moral high-ground. "Every accusation is a confession."

I think we all can guess at the truth here.

TZubiriabout 4 hours ago
Nice. I'm against polymarket allowing bets on war precisely because of this. But I think we can all agree that perpetrators hold more liability than the platforms, they are the true cuplrits of warcrimes/treason.
HoldOnAMinuteabout 3 hours ago
Everyone's a grifter these days.
yieldcrvabout 3 hours ago
He screwed himself by taking steps to show how much of an amateur he was, by trying to delete his polymarket account and change the email address on his crypto exchange account

He should have just cashed out and donated 20% of it to Mar-a-Lago saying exactly what he did and a thank you. It's a little too low for a club membership but since the President's family is a shareholder of Polymarket I think it would have been seen as attracting liquidity

AG would have been instructed to stamp out the investigation, no charges would have been filed

warlogabout 4 hours ago
They should run for Congress
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sandworm101about 4 hours ago
What was his rank? What was his job? What was his clearance? How did he have access?

The canadians have the info. He was special forces. He was enlisted (not an officer). He was involved, or at least privy to, the planning of the Venezuela thing.

https://globalnews.ca/news/11814801/maduro-capture-polymarke...

paulpauperabout 5 hours ago
Feds waited no time to drop the indictment and make arrest. 3 months is lightning fast for a white collar crime. Wall St. ppl who commit insider trading pay a fine and admit no wrongdoing, discouraging the profits, and only after many years and trades have passed. Goes to show how elites play by a different set of rules. His mistake was not knowing he was not in that club. Have no idea why this was downvoted. I see so many other people who make this argument about privileged elites and always get upvoted.
joe_mambaabout 5 hours ago
> Goes to show how elites play by a different set of rules.

Epstein said the same, and yet nobody went out to protest.

rvzabout 3 hours ago
In desperate times in the age of AI, one needs to grift in order to survive. This soldier was just doing that to maybe...enrich themselves like the politicians also breaking insider trading laws?

This is why no-one at the top institutions, politicians (Pelosi), presidents (Trump) and everyone else in proximity gets arrested or charged for insider trading in all forms. It doesn't apply to them.

This is a reminder that the rule makers are allowed to grift and break their own rules, but will arrest you for copying them or doing the same thing because this soldier was not part of their club.

He wasn't invited to their private insider group chat. So this solider was arrested and charged instead.

polski-gabout 4 hours ago
How is this illegal? Polymarket isn't a US-regulated market.
junarabout 4 hours ago
From the indictment, he's being charged with the following:

* Unlawful Use of Confidential Government Information for Personal Gain

* Theft of Nonpublic Government Information

* Commodities Fraud

* Wire Fraud

* Engaging in a Monetary Transaction in Property Derived from Specified Unlawful Activity

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/media/1437781/dl

paulpauperabout 4 hours ago
So had this not involved presumed military secrets, it would have been legal? So it was the classified info that made it a crime, and then the insider trading aspect was later tacked on? It's crazy how the government adds so many charges. This guy is screwed.
gpmabout 4 hours ago
It's rather obviously illegal to leak classified intel by taking public actions based off of it... that's practically the meaning of the word "classified".
georgemcbayabout 4 hours ago
It is illegal to leak classified intel if you're just an average person.

If you're the Trump hand-picked Secretary of the War Department then it is not illegal and will never be punished.

Always remember which tier of justice you are on prior to committing a crime!