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79% Positive

Analyzed from 2316 words in the discussion.

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#asahi#linux#support#hardware#apple#more#mac#don#project#effort

Discussion (117 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

GeekyBear43 minutes ago
Nice to see M3 support coming along as they work their way through the upstreaming backlog and improve tooling:

> finding their way into the Asahi kernel tree are patches to enable more hardware on M3 machines. This includes support for PCIe, MacBook keyboards and trackpads support, the SMC-based RTC and reboot controller, and the NVMe controller, courtesy once again of Michael Reeves and Alyssa Milburn. This brings Linux support for the M3 up to roughly the same level as the first Asahi Linux alpha for M1!

brynetabout 3 hours ago
>.. macOS only ever programs CS42L84 to operate at either 48 or 96 kHz, we could only add support for those two sample rates to the Linux driver ..

> However, CS42L42 supports all the other common sample rates, and while the register layout and programming sequence is different, the actual values programmed in for 48 and 96 kHz are the same across both chips. What would happen if we simply took the values for all other sample rates from the CS42L42 datasheet and added those to the CS42L84 driver? As it turns out, you get support for those sample rates!

> The patch to enable hardware support for 44.1, 88.2, 176.4 and 192 kHz sample rates on both the input and output of the headphone jack was submitted directly upstream, and has been merged for 7.1. We also backported this to Asahi kernel 6.19.9, allowing users to take advantage of this immediately.

Nice bit of chip sleuthing and reverse engineering from the Asahi team!

functionmouseabout 3 hours ago
whoa, bit perfect CD/flac playback in 44.1, that's a killer feature.
kakwa_about 2 hours ago
While I absolutely love the technical write-up from the Asahi team, and being absolutely impressed by their accomplishment, to the risk of being an overly negative contrarian, I remain a bit skeptical.

I'm concerned that after all these years, it's still a separate project and not an effort sustained directly within the kernel mainline and mainstream distributions like Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora.

These kinds of reverse engineering projects are extremely challenging. With skills & field knowledge, it's "easy" to get to "80%" and have something useful for you and the most dedicated users. But reaching the "95%" required for a polished & general public ready experience needs nearly as much effort, often on tedious and time consuming tidbits.

dagmxabout 1 hour ago
For what it’s worth, Asahi do upstream a lot of changes to do exactly what you’re saying.

That’s a big reason why progress slowed recently because they were focusing on reducing their diff count.

A lot of stuff has landed in the mainline kernel, but Asahi is how they keep experimenting on new functionality.

omcnoeabout 2 hours ago
I think there is also the added challenge that ARM macs are a moving target, and Apple has less than no desire to provide any kind of stability or support for Asahi Linux. Unlike the PC space where laptop manufacturers have to maintain broad compatibility over time, Apple will make future changes that are really awkward for Asahi and will not care one bit because they can do the compat work on their own software.
xoaabout 1 hour ago
>I think there is also the added challenge that ARM macs are a moving target

Yes, but also no? Because I think a reasonable argument can be made that ARM Macs are like game consoles with a more rapid generation: yes there are changes between each generation, but then you've got millions of units which are good for a very long time that are all near identical. Apple definitely is not changing everything between gens at all, work they've done for M1 has been plenty useful since. And support stretches awhile. The final M3 generation chip only came out about a year ago (the M3 Ultra for the Mac Studio was March 2025).

So sure there's ongoing effort needed for newer systems, and that may require ongoing RE more then typical. I don't want to brush aside the effort there at all. But at the same time there doesn't seem to be the same long tail of hardware variations and dozens to hundreds of players doing their own little tweaks either. Aside from memory and storage, every single Mac of a given SoC is the same so each time one gets covered they all get covered and are a stable experience. It's definitely a different thing then developing for PCs, and I definitely wish there was and support serious legal backing for no rug pulls being allowed, ever. Hardware owners should always have access to the root of trust if they want it. But that aside, I don't think their efforts are wrong or somehow wasted just because each new generation might need some new work. That doesn't appear from the outside to be intractable, and fact is the pace of hardware change for computers has slowed and continues to slow. A system from many years ago can still be very good for most tasks... so long as the OS can still be updated and work. Apple themselves seem more then limiting factor there, whereas Linux shines in long term support.

unfitted254513 minutes ago
From an end user perspective, I think the best thing the Asahi team could have done was solely focus on getting the M1 Air/Pro working 100% before moving onto other devices.

But that would probably result in burn out from the crazily talented dev team :P

walterbellabout 2 hours ago
How does Ubuntu Linux on recent Qualcomm (ex-Apple Nuvia) Arm laptops compare to Asahi Linux on Apple Silicon?
jauntywundrkindabout 1 hour ago
Pretty rude to call this ex Apple Nuvia. I don't think any of those lawsuits by Apple or ARM have been won. Qualcomm declares this to be a new chip. But yes it has talent from those places. Still, let's not try to tip the scales of perception quite so indelicately?

I am curious what the boot situation is. It seems like Qualcomm actually has pretty good support for their cores. But since these PC systems sort of lack a bios, each one needing a hand built DeviceTree: it makes supporting them kind of a nightmare. Even a raspberry pi has a much more advanced and accommodating boot environment than these frustrating Qualcomm laptops. Alas. I don't know but I expect Asahi has to do similar hand tailoring. I am curious to know what the boot chain looks like! How much the system willingly helps vs how much hard to be bespoke hand coded system config! (Wish it wasn't like this, it's so bad)

__turbobrew__7 minutes ago
Why would any group want to take on a project which could be instantly killed by an external for profit entity? For now Asahi is left alone by Apple but that could change in a single day and the entire project is dead. It doesn’t seem like a productive way to direct the limited energy that distribution foundations have on hand.
bri3dabout 1 hour ago
> I'm concerned that after all these years, it's still a separate project and not an effort sustained directly within the kernel mainline and mainstream distributions

What does this mean? Hardware support is rarely developed inside these organizations; what makes it seem like these groups would be a good home for this effort?

It makes sense to have a group of experts in a field (Apple hardware/firmware) contribute patches upstream, which is the exact system here. And Asahi have done an above and beyond job also maintaining their installation framework while carefully moving changes upstream as well.

samivabout 2 hours ago
Like they say, "when you're 90% done you just need to take care of the other 90%"
throwaway2744843 minutes ago
What does "mainlined" driver development even look like?
georgeburdellabout 3 hours ago
I really hope this project continues to gain momentum. Apple Hardware + Linux is the least fscked OS running on the best hardware. MacOS continues to be a tire fire with endless bugs and churn between versions.
jwrabout 3 hours ago
When I think about it, I don't understand why Apple wouldn't want to help this effort and just provide all the documentation.

All the classic reasons ("competitive advantage", "secrets", etc) do not hold water in this day and age.

ansgriabout 3 hours ago
One of the reasons I can see is it’s much easier to say “we don’t play this game” than get a lot of negative press for selective openness and breaking compatibility of non-public interfaces. Maybe it’s even more important internally, as it enables new kind of internal discussions distracting from priority work.
kevin_thibedeauabout 3 hours ago
They are operating under a patchwork of NDAs. It would take some effort to determine what they can disclose.
mmcnlabout 3 hours ago
I was trying to come up with a response but you're right. It would be easy for Apple and Apple would get so much goodwill from the community in return.
gjsman-1000about 3 hours ago
They get more public goodwill from a single ad. The chronically online Linux-using engineer community is too small to matter.
bjelkeman-againabout 3 hours ago
Developers build many of the applications that make the platform desirable. Steve Ballmer at least seem to get that part. ;)
basiswordabout 3 hours ago
I imagine the real reason is that if they change things they now have an obligation to promptly share technical docs and if they're slow people will whine and bitch online about them. Not worth it. They have zero to gain (and I say this as someone who would love to dual boot Linux on my M4).
confiqabout 3 hours ago
so they don't care about users, they care about themself?
afavourabout 3 hours ago
I think a more accurate statement is that they don’t want to take on the outsized burden relative to the number of users it would actually affect.

I’d love to dual boot Linux too but I’m under no delusions about being a very small segment of the Mac population.

basiswordabout 3 hours ago
Apple's whole thing is hardware + software working together. Endless other options available to Linux users. They'd also need to be prepared for people bringing laptops to stores with hardware problems that aren't running macOS. Again, more burden for Apple for no gain other than winning over a couple of dozen users.
u_fucking_dorkabout 3 hours ago
The cynical take is that they make a shit ton of money from services and Linux running on a MacBook won’t help them do that.
deaddodoabout 3 hours ago
The vast majority of people that buy Macs for the ecosystem aren't going to switch to Linux. That market will remain untouched. Outside of a few gamers who might want to put up with the x86-to-ARM translation layer and (for most A to AAA games) Proton to run some non-Mac games. And even they'll probably still dual-boot.

There's a portion of another market: people who want to run Linux and want a powerful laptop who buy x86 Laptops right now. Apple could expend very little relative effort while offering no official support by helping Asahi get that to a first class platform. They won't capture them in the ecosystem (and they never would have) but will still benefit from hardware sales to them.

Obviously, if they sold their hardware at a loss and subsidized that with ecosystem capture that would be a non-starter. But from everything we know, the hardware itself is very profitable.

chocochunksabout 3 hours ago
Yeah, and having the only supported OS be MacOS means they can entice people to upgrade when they want. No continuing on with 8+ year old hardware and a lightweight Linux distro even if it's fine for the intended use case.
c7babout 3 hours ago
They do also make a lot of money selling hardware, and as things stand today that business happens to make them look like the first tech giant to actually profit from the AI boom (because the hardware they've been developing internally for years happens to be among the best consumer-grade options for self-hosting LLMs). Making their hardware more attractive to tinkerers could be a winning move right now.
omnimusabout 3 hours ago
This, but also you would be allowing people to learn Linux. Developer with a Mac has to be one of the most common linux defectors. I suspect most people don't realize how doable and comfortable the switch can be.
kavokabout 3 hours ago
It’s been my experience that developers running Mac already know how to use Linux and actively choose to use Mac. Unless the company is forcing it at least.
gschierabout 3 hours ago
Linux users don't pay for anything anyway
gjsman-1000about 3 hours ago
> I don't understand

We really need to retire this phrase, it’s become a humblebrag way of calling the other party delusional without even trying to understand.

The list here though is long: priorities, accuracy concerns, blurring the line on official support, IP restrictions with third parties (even Apple uses plenty of licensed cores), etc.

bogzzabout 1 hour ago
I wonder if the hardware or the software will be the first to make a dream dev machine happen - a MacBook Pro + Linux experience

either Asahi gets there from the software side or Framework gets there from the hardware side

felixdingabout 3 hours ago
"Amaze, amaze, amaze!"

I wonder if there would be interest in an Asahi Remix spin focused on a more Mac-like out-of-the-box experience: cmd as the main modifier key, Mac-like keyboard shortcuts, theming, gestures, etc.

Of course, you can tweak any distro however you want, but I think a curated default experience is a different thing.

omnimusabout 3 hours ago
Cmd as main modifier is lost battle. I've tried it multiple times. In the end just accepted ctrl life and sold my last macbook.
mbeavittabout 4 hours ago
These kind of project reports showing consistent breakthroughs and clearly a finger on the pulse of what users are encountering as pain points are a good indication that the Asahi team are real pros :)

Look forward to switching back to Asahi full time soon!!

sandreasabout 2 hours ago
While I love Asahi as such and am really blown away by the effort, my setup requires an encrypted ZFS root file system, which is unreasonably hard to achieve with a Mac.

The fact, that there has to be a macOS partition for maintenance ruling out ZFSBootMenu somehow is very unfortunate - but I've accepted it.

Maybe the new Framework 13 Pro will be at least in the region of an alternative... :-/

jordandabout 3 hours ago
M3 support nearly at alpha is fantastic news, and I'm really looking forward to M4 in the future. I am not looking forward to whatever Apple has planned this year for macOS, or next.
giancarlostoroabout 2 hours ago
Really hope that by the time all my M4 Macs are no longer updated by Apple I can just switch to Asahi and get a 1:1 compatible OS in terms of supporting all the hardware my Macs come with.
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GZGavinZhaoabout 1 hour ago
It's always sad to think what more can be achieved / how faster we might've arrived at M3 support if Asahi Lina is still active.
jcalvinowensabout 2 hours ago
Is anybody running Linux headlessly on the m4 mac minis successfully? I'm seeing them flying around used now at tempting prices...
seabrookmx34 minutes ago
Asahi is still in the early days of m3 support. It looks like there is zero m4 support, so I doubt you can even boot on one yet: https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/feature-support/m4/#m4-...
yuhmahpabout 4 hours ago
Fascinating project like always. Thank you Asahi team!
thelastgallonabout 3 hours ago
Is there an equivalent of this for iphones so we can give them a second life?
nicoburnsabout 3 hours ago
Unfortunately iPhones have locked bootloaders that prohibit installing other operating systems. People have gotten Linux running on iPhones, but it requires jailbreaking and that has gotten much harder over time. And it's not really worth putting effort into developing an OS if nobody is going to be able to install it.
Otekabout 3 hours ago
Running what exactly? Older iOS versions? Android?
thelastgallonabout 3 hours ago
Linux.
a1oabout 3 hours ago
Does anyone knows if it runs on M4 Mac machines?
xeeeeeeeeeeenuabout 3 hours ago
It runs only on M1 and M2. M3 is being worked on.
bishopp92about 2 hours ago
Genuine question: can't LLMs be used to accelerate this project?
worldsaviorabout 2 hours ago
They've really strict policy on LLMs. They pretty much don't allow using them, because the slop so much in this kind of region.
jojomoddingabout 2 hours ago
Nothing is stopping you from using LLMs when contributing to their project (I think). One reason might simply be that they would rather spend the (very sparse) donation money on anything else but tokens.
mal-capabout 1 hour ago
https://asahilinux.org/docs/project/policies/slop/

They do currently ban LLM-assisted submissions. To be honest, even if LLMs are technically capable of writing code that assists the project, this at least helps keeps the 'floodgate' closed for certain low-quality PRs that other open-source projects are getting.

dreamcompilerabout 2 hours ago
I run Asahi (the previous release) on an M2 Air and it works great except for high power drain when sleeping.

I still want to run it on an M3 MBP so it's nice to hear progress on that is happening.

e12eabout 1 hour ago
Do you use a docking station and an external display?
ajdudeabout 3 hours ago
I'm glad they dropped the ban on HN readers[1]. That was my very first impression of Asahi Linux that I ever encountered and it's unfortunately what I think of every time I see it show up here.

[1] https://github.com/AsahiLinux/AsahiLinux.github.io/commit/e0...

confiqabout 3 hours ago
Because they got a lot of trolls and Apple fans. The decision was not made lightly.
AussieWog93about 3 hours ago
Honestly, knowing what I know about marcan, the decision was probably the result of an overwhelming/strong emotional reaction.

Not to just shit all over him or anything, but it really sucks to see someone who is genuinely top-ten-on-earth when it comes to "real hacking" struggle so much with socialisation and mental health.

applfanboysbgonabout 3 hours ago
It is weird to blame the victim for reacting to being harassed by a mob. That is a normal thing to have a reaction to. Perhaps rather than blaming people's social skills and mental health, we should instead blame the culture that normalises harassing people on the internet, even to the point of suicide (as happened in byuu's case). You are basically advocating that it is better for individuals to change to accept a shitty society as a given rather than advocating for society to change to be less shitty.
alphagerabout 3 hours ago
How is that a ban?