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#china#singapore#prc#manus#chinese#company#meta#america#founders#export

Discussion (94 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

wxwabout 2 hours ago
> After a $75 million fundraising round led by U.S. venture firm Benchmark in May 2025, Manus shut its China offices in July, laying off dozens of employees. It then moved its operations to Singapore.

> It was not immediately clear on what grounds China was seeking the annulment of a deal involving a Singapore-based company and how, if at all, a completed acquisition transaction would be unwound.

> Manus' two co-founders, CEO Xiao Hong and chief scientist Ji Yichao, were summoned to Beijing for talks with regulators in March and later barred from leaving the country, five sources familiar with the matter said.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

stego-techabout 2 hours ago
I suspect this is more of a warning shot to others attempting the same playbook ("Singapore-washing", as I've heard folks call it): the state is watching, and shifting geopolitics means it's in their interest to retain successful talent and entities at home rather than let opposition have them.

If anything, I'm genuinely surprised it took them this long. America's been doing this for decades without much in the way of pushback, so China must feel very confident in its position to use such tactics.

aeschabout 2 hours ago
I don't know if America has done anything quite like this. The example I'm looking for is where a company starts in the US but leaves and incorporates outside the US and then the US attempts to block acquisition by a foreign company. Also, the enforcement mechanism while vague seems un-American. America might tax the company upon exit but it wouldn't hold the founders hostage in America. If you have examples I'd be curious.
rzerowanabout 2 hours ago
Famously back in the day Grindr , which had a plot point in the Silicon Valley series . Probably more obscure ones that havent been heard of outside software in the Hard tech space like MotorSich (Ukranian) was being courted by Chinese investment got blocked due to US pressure. And very recently the whole TikTok fiasco.
strangegeckoabout 2 hours ago
What examples do you have of the US government doing to CEOs what has happened to people like Jack Ma and many other public figures?

For China, there are so many examples of people doing 180s and being full of contrition after those interventions, it's hard to imagine anything but severe intimidation or worse happening behind closed doors.

reissbakerabout 2 hours ago
You've been all over this this thread responding with the same whataboutist comments claiming America does the same thing. And yet, I'm pretty sure America hasn't held American citizens hostage in order to force them to unwind a sale of a foreign company they founded to a different foreign company.
maxgluteabout 1 hour ago
This just PRC finally applying their version of US export controls, i.e. PRC gets to control PRC originated algos, same argument as TikTok. The founders aren't held "hostage", they're under investigation for violating export control and national security laws. PRC hinted signalled pretty clearly they would use art12 (catch all clause) of export control laws and offshore affiliate rules (to address Singapore loophole) before Manus deal closed - Manus ignored loud hints. The difference is PRC wasn't super judicious in enforcing AI related export controls (especially since agent development new hence art12), US would have ensured this control list tech wouldn't leave US territory via foreign product rule / CFIUS / BIS. PRC gave pretty clear signals to Manus what was going to happen hoping they'd unwind on their own, but they didn't so now they're going to eat shit.

PRC still haven't gone the step up to ban PRC strategic talent from working in US like US has for PRC semi. Don't be surprised in 5-10 years US has to hire PRC workers with obfuscated identities like PRC dealing with US/TW talent in PRC EUV. Plenty more room how these things can escalate depending on how serious PRC starts to treat dual use AI.

orange_joeabout 2 hours ago
interesting. Manus is nominally a Singapore based company and should be immune to these actions. Tiktok argued that it was headquartered in Singapore with a Singaporean CEO. breaking singapore’s fig leaf might prove problematic in the long run.
zonkerdonkerabout 2 hours ago
>not immediately clear on what grounds China was seeking the annulment of a deal involving a Singapore-based company and how, if at all, a completed acquisition transaction would be unwound.

Interesting. I wonder what sorts of threats China could make to back up this demand, or if this is more of a warning for future acquisitions in the space.

some_randomabout 2 hours ago
"Your families live here", maybe "We have shadow police stations across the world", the playbook is well established
Detrytusabout 2 hours ago
That's interesting, because recently China is definitely trying to paint themselves as the reasonable, stable partner, commited to upholding international law (unlike the US, which is ruled by a madman) . Trying to block this aquisition without good legal argument goes directly against that strategy.
stego-techabout 2 hours ago
I mean, they're just cribbing what America did, and what the British Empire did before that.

It's a disgusting playbook, but it's also an effective one if you're a state trying to exert control over important players or entities.

catgaryabout 2 hours ago
I think you need to give some concrete examples, considering the US happily let its companies offshore a lot of work to China over the years, and Chinese funds own large chunks of American companies.
some_randomabout 2 hours ago
Not even getting into the more dubious part of this claim, just because the British or Americans did it doesn't mean it's right or acceptable. If you disagree with that, you're implicitly pro slavery, pro penal expeditions, etc.
godelskiabout 2 hours ago
I'm really unfamiliar with this playbook and how America has used it. Do you have any examples? I can't seem to find any
giancarlostoroabout 2 hours ago
Funny when you consider the world owes a lot of AI advancements to both Meta and Google, their open releases really did shift things, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, especially for China, which as far as I know were not releasing as much in AI as they have been beforehand. I remember when Meta released Llama originally people were speculating about it, but it wound up producing a lot of projects that used it, I'm sure some in China. I know that Perplexity has its own custom model on top of Llama that they use for their default model, and its pretty darn good.
henry2023about 2 hours ago
Wasn’t Llama a leak that got so popular meta decided to change their whole approach?

I was working at Google at the time. Before Llama, releasing weights was not even worth a discussion.

giancarlostoroabout 2 hours ago
Not sure, but open weights have had their effects. For example, look at Wan 2.2 the last open weights Wan release, still the most powerful Video inference out there, to the level of quality it provides, unfortunately, it went closed source, but before they did, the community had built all sorts of tooling and LoRas on top of it. Nothing comes close for video a year later. Back to llama though, look at all the open models people run offline through their Macs. It definitely had a net positive.
_fat_santaabout 2 hours ago
Besides the fact that the founders are in China and are barred from leaving, is there anything that prevents Manus/Meta from just telling the CCP to kick rocks?

Sure they can object to it or claim they are "blocking" the sale, but is there really anything they can do considering that Manus is no longer within their jurisdiction?

reissbakerabout 2 hours ago
I think it's precisely the fact that the founders live in China. The CCP can make them... kick rocks... for the rest of their lives.

Generally speaking this seems bad for Chinese companies, though. They were able to raise capital from the West by running out of "Singapore"; I think basically every investor will have significant pause investing in Chinese-national-owned startups after this, "Singapore-based" or not.

kccqzyabout 2 hours ago
The CCP is known to be very aggressive. Even if the founders acquired Singaporean citizenship (which is way easier for ethnic Chinese people than for other races), the CCP would have taken them hostage if they just set foot in China like for a business trip. They can invent a crime and subject them to a trial with Chinese rules. What can Singapore do? It’s a tiny country that tries to walk a tightrope by simultaneously maintaining good relations with both China and the U.S.
deepfriedbitsabout 2 hours ago
Not only that, but they can make life inconvenient for your family. Nobody reasonable would accuse the CCP of outright violence, but there are a million bureaucracy-related tricks the state can pull to leverage you and/or your family.
meisterbrendanabout 1 hour ago
"Nobody reasonable"??
dmixabout 2 hours ago
Just look at the Jack Ma case https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/04/business/china-jack-ma-rumor-...

They kept him under house arrest for years and now he complies

efieldsabout 2 hours ago
The… hands of fate?
qaK127about 1 hour ago
Obviously. With the US first controlling Venezuelan energy supplies to China and then cutting of Iranian energy supplies to China (as well as to the EU), what do you expect?

China isn't as stupid as the EU, which just says thanks and would you perhaps like to blow up another pipeline?

Hormuz will stay closed by the pirates. LNG terminals are already built in Alaska to supply the Asian "allies", whose economy the US also ruins.

If the EU had any backbone, it would cut off the US from ASML.

kubbabout 1 hour ago
Somehow this is about the EU?
hasbr1232 minutes ago
US controlling the world's energy routes goes back to the Suez Crisis, where it wrestled the canal from Britain. Reagan blew up a Russian-German pipeline. The Nord Stream sabotage was at least condoned and cheered on. Now the closure of Hormuz was first provoked and then co-opted by the US.

Yes, this is about the rest of the world.

verdvermabout 1 hour ago
The world order is early on in a major restructuring. The EU is a major region and on a path to greater self reliance and determination. This is good for the world imo (as an American)
DeathArrowabout 1 hour ago
>If the EU had any backbone, it would cut off the US from ASML.

ASML depends on a lot of US technologies.

hirako2000about 2 hours ago
Funny that Manus already shows "by meta" along with the logo pretty prominently.
OsrsNeedsf2Pabout 2 hours ago
This will be awkward, given the acquisition is already complete
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some_randomabout 2 hours ago
Can we finally acknowledge the obvious Singapore-washing that Chinese companies have been doing for years or are we going to keep pretending?
arjvikabout 2 hours ago
elaborate on the problem, for those of us that this is not obvious to?
some_randomabout 2 hours ago
Chinese company has an issue being a Chinese company for international legal or optics reasons, relocates to Singapore while still being controlled by Chinese nationals or all-but-Chinese-Nationals. Bytedance is a great example. Russian companies do the same thing with Switzerland, see Kaspersky.
hereme888about 2 hours ago
Poor Meta. AI is really just not working out for them.
KaoruAoiShihoabout 2 hours ago
Manus is saved, 2 billion is such an undervaluation considering much worse companies like minimax is valued at 30 billion.
jorblumeseaabout 2 hours ago
So China is just claiming that anyone who is ethnically Chinese should be pressured? Manus is in Singapore and has no direct connections to China physically and financially. SG offices, SG product, SG founders with family on the mainland.
outside1234about 2 hours ago
What leverage does China have here to enforce this? Meta doesn't do business in China. Can't they just give them the middle finger?
ls612about 2 hours ago
“Wouldn’t it be a shame if your family’s organs were harvested?”

That is the leverage that China has.

umeshunniabout 2 hours ago
Meta absolutely does business in China. e.g. https://www.metacareers.com/v2/locations/shenzhen/?p[offices...

https://www.metacareers.com/v2/locations/shanghai/?p[offices...

https://www.metacareers.com/v2/locations/hongkong/?p[offices...

I also assume, like most advertising platforms, they cater heavily to the China export market.

dublinstatsabout 2 hours ago
I don't think their social networks are allowed in China.

From your link it looks like they might do R&D for Oculus in China (but may not even be able to sell it there due to the data-collection tie in required).

Not sure what you mean by catering to the export market. b2b sales would be just as restricted as sales to consumers.