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#text#writing#don#style#kelsey#model#blog#opus#more#author

Discussion (105 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

mtlynchabout 2 hours ago
This is blowing my mind.

I asked Kimi K2.6 to write a blog post in the style of James Mickens.[0] Then I fed the output to Opus 4.7 and asked it who the likely author was, and it correctly identified it as an imitation of James Mickens[1]:

> Based on the stylistic fingerprints in this text, the most likely author is a pastiche/imitation of the style of several writers fused together, but if forced to identify a single likely author, the strongest candidate is someone writing in the voice of James Mickens

> [...]

> The piece could also be a deliberate imitation/homage to Mickens written by someone else, or AI-generated text trained on his style, since the voice is so distinctive it's frequently parodied.

[0] https://kagi.com/assistant/5bfc5da9-cbfc-4051-8627-d0e9c0615...

[1] https://kagi.com/assistant/fd3eca94-45de-4a53-8604-fcc568dc5...

jefftkabout 1 hour ago
That's neat, though it impresses me less that the article. Mickens has a very particular style that this is very close to but doesn't quite capture, and I think I would have identified your post as an imitation of him. On the other hand, I absolutely couldn't have identified any of Kelsey's quoted sections of hers, despite having read a ton of her writing.
dovin39 minutes ago
I fed it my most-read blog post and asked it to identify me and it confidently asserted it was written by Kelsey Piper. Maybe some writers just take outsized importance in Opus' "mind".
willmeyersabout 1 hour ago
I'd argue (and against something that I've believed for a long time) that online (I guess that includes AI now) anonymity is gone and probably something that never really existed. Maybe I'm naive to finally believe this...

We all exist in a physical space (like real communities and neighborhoods). We can wear masks, hats, fake glasses, try and hide your voice...whatever, but your neighbors are always going to know who you are. I'd say that's true for the virtual space now too.

The pseudonym you've used for x years or the VPN you've used doesn't suffice. It's just a costume at this point. Your ISP knows who you are. Your phone carrier knows who you are. Cloudflare and Google and Apple have a fingerprint specific enough to pick you out of a crowd of millions. Every potentially anonymous account is one subpoena or a data breach or one FOIL request away from unmasking it. You were never anonymous. Whatever is going on now is not built for your anonymity.

squeegmeisterabout 1 hour ago
NamlchakKhandroabout 1 hour ago
This is an old claim, and one that can't be proven.
jefftkabout 1 hour ago
It works for me to: https://www.jefftk.com/p/automated-deanonymization-is-here

Of course most people have written much less online than Kelsey or I have, but I expect this will keep on. Don't trust the future to keep your secrets safe.

tekacsabout 4 hours ago
A moderately well-known physicist and I talked about this a few years ago. He had been given access to the raw (non-instruct) version of GPT 4 as an early tester.

He explained that when he fed it snippets of the beginning of text, it would complete it in his voice and then sign it with his name.

I think this has been true for a while, probably diminished a little bit by the Instruct post training, and would presumably vary by degree as the size of the pretrain.

nextaccounticabout 4 hours ago
> He explained that when he fed it snippets of the beginning of text, it would complete it in his voice and then sign it with his name.

Is this public text already in the training set, or private text that might as well be written on the spot for the AI?

I don't doubt AI can "fingerprint" you through your text (ideas, vocabulary, tone, etc), but those are different things, capability-wise

tekacsabout 2 hours ago
Private / freshly written text, naturally. Public would've been relatively unsurprising.
giancarlostoroabout 2 hours ago
> I don't doubt AI can "fingerprint" you through your text (ideas, vocabulary, tone, etc), but those are different things, capability-wise

The entire point of AI is pattern recognition, everything else is icing on the cake.

jayers28 minutes ago
It's funny: publishing work offline in books and magazines is perhaps more anonymous in the age of AI.

I pasted in a number of passages from books on my bookshelf. Predictably, stuff that I read for my English degree in university is largely in the training data and easily identifiable. Stuff from regional authors or is slightly adjacent to the cultural mainstream makes no impression.

NiloCK14 minutes ago
To clarify, because a number of posts here sort of suggest the confusion:

the article here isn't about the LLM recognizing works that were in the training data. EG, The Old Man and the Sea off the shelf. It's about pegging the author of novel texts, like, say, some letter written by Hemmingway that gets discovered next week and was never before digitized.

jasongi16 minutes ago
It is for now.

But I'm sure the scanning operations will start scouring the earth even harder for any books unaffected by slop containing niche knowledge and text in order for their models to have an edge over the ones trained only on pirate collections and the Internet.

I wonder if secondhand bookshops and deceased estates are seeing bulk buyers of their stock suddenly appearing. Maybe broke governments/municipalities will start selling them entire libraries and archives to ingest.

mtlynchabout 3 hours ago
Wow! It got me too.

I'm way less famous than Kelsey Piper, but I showed it a snippet of a book I'm working on (not yet published), and it immediately guessed me:

> Based on the writing style and content, this text is likely by Michael Lynch, who writes on his blog refactoringenglish.com (and previously mtlynch.io).

> Several stylistic clues point to him:

> - The "clean room" analogy applied to writing is consistent with his engineering-influenced approach to writing advice (he's a former software engineer who writes about writing).

> - The structural technique of presenting a flawed excuse, then drawing a parallel to an absurd scenario (the time bomb) to expose the logical flaw, is characteristic of his didactic style.

> - The topic itself—practical advice about using AI tools without letting AI-generated tone contaminate your prose—aligns closely with recent essays he's published on his "Refactoring English" project, which is a book/blog about writing for software developers.

> - The conversational-but-precise tone, use of quotes around terms like "clean room," and the focus on workflow/process advice are all hallmarks of his writing.

> If you can share the source URL or more context, I could confirm with higher confidence, but the combination of subject matter, analogical reasoning style, and formatting conventions makes Michael Lynch the most probable author.

https://kagi.com/assistant/bbc9da96-b4cf-456b-8398-6cf5404ea...

_--__--__about 5 hours ago
On some level it would make sense for LLMs to be inherently good at stylometry, but apparently no model before Opus 4.7 could do this. And the one stylometric task that has been tried over and over with little reliability (here's some text, is this LLM generated?) is much simpler than identifying a specific blogger or a member of a small discord community. Not sure what to make of this.
post-itabout 4 hours ago
> is much simpler than identifying a specific blogger or a member of a small discord community

Is it? I would think that identifying text written by a specific person is going to be significantly easier than identifying text distilled from the words of almost everyone alive.

hashmap13 minutes ago
Much easier.

> easier than identifying text distilled from the words of almost everyone alive.

Well, there's more than that going on. AI generated text encodes a high-dimension navigational trajectory that guides the model through its geometry smoothly, like a trail of breadcrumbs. Human speech doesn't do that, it's jagged and jumps around the manifold, and probably doesn't even land on the manifold a lot of the time, and models can recognize the difference pretty quick.

chewxyabout 1 hour ago
So I have been practicing writing fiction the past year or so. It identifies a fiction piece I wrote as Greg Egan[0]. Another paragraph from another piece was identified as China Mieville[1]. The accompanying blog posts explaining the making of the fiction pieces were identified as me.

Both pieces have never been published. Neither have the blog posts.

[0] in https://blog.chewxy.com/2026/04/01/how-i-write/ this is the story titled "there is no constant non-zero derivative in nature". It does not read like Egan at all.

[1] in https://blog.chewxy.com/2026/04/01/how-i-write/ this is the story titled "The Case of the Liquidated Corps". I use a lot of biological metaphors. Once again, nothing like Mieville.

If only I could write like them! These pieces were all rejected by the major scifi mags

etrautmann34 minutes ago
This raises a good point. Most people who aren’t public writers might be misidentified based on the prevalence of others work in training data sets. Kelsey Piper might have a very different experience with this than a mostly offline normal user?
eaf7e281about 1 hour ago
Interesting. I'm currently conducting an experiment where I'm writing the blog without using any grammar checking tools. I'm wondering how long it will take for me to become "famous" in the AI model.

Is now the best and easiest time to leave something "forever"? Even after many generations of models, a model may still trigger a set of "memories" that know you and what you wrote.

Exciting and concerning.

furyofantaresabout 3 hours ago
> But it can get uncannily far. I asked a close friend who doesn’t have public social media accounts or much writing online for permission to test some things she had said in a Discord channel. Asked to guess the author, Claude 4.7 failed — but it guessed two other people who were in that channel and who are close friends of hers (me and another person who has an internet presence).

Is this "uncannily far"? Another read is that it loves guessing Kelsey Piper.

skeledrewabout 1 hour ago
Maybe it loves to - somehow correctly - guess the names of the current user, given some of the other comments here.
furyofantares43 minutes ago
I don't know. She did it with the API, and with a friend, not just incognito. Combined with the results in this thread I'm rather convinced.
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Retr0idabout 4 hours ago
I just fed it my latest blog post draft (475 words), and it got it in one. Even knowing what to expect, I was very surprised!
alyxyaabout 4 hours ago
I tried the four pieces of text with Opus 4.7 (in incognito) and it guessed correctly for two of them, and I made sure to specify no web search and the model seems to have obeyed my instructions with that.

Although this is just a single piece of text from a prolific writer, it'll go much further with deanonymizing anyone when combining multiple pieces of text plus other contextual information about the writer that might give away their age range, location, and occupation.

superfrankabout 4 hours ago
How widely known were the pieces of text? Are we talking about a section of MLK's I Have a Dream speech or hand written birthday cards from your grandma?

I'm using those as the two extremes, but if it's anything by anyone moderately well known (even a lesser known piece of writing), I'm not too surprised that it didn't need the web to figure it out. It's like if you showed me a Wes Anderson film or played me a Bob Dylan song I'd never seen/heard before, I could probably still figure out who it is without looking anything up. I don't think it's surprising that an LLM can do that much better than a human can.

Now, if you're giving it things like personal emails between you and your family and it's able to guess who you are, that's much, much scarier.

skeledrewabout 1 hour ago
> giving it things like personal emails

As long as there's sufficient online presence otherwise I see no reason why a successful identity wouldn't be made. Unless there's significant effort put into making those emails different from the online content, and even then there will probably still be some "tells" that an AI can pick up on.

alyxyaabout 4 hours ago
I mean I tried sending the pieces of text to Opus that Kelsey was referring to on her blog just to independently check the identification claim. Presumably those pieces of text first appeared on the web when the blog post was published a week ago, so no model should have memorized the exact text yet. My prompt had to specify no web search, otherwise Opus would try to search the web, though it didn't seem like Opus could find that blog post even when it did try to search the web.
atleastoptimalabout 5 hours ago
One should assume that models will be good enough in the nearish future that privacy will be a thing of the past. Every anonymous post you made online can be traced back to you. However at that point AI will be good enough at fabrication that nobody will believe anything.
SOLAR_FIELDSabout 5 hours ago
Yes as long as a large enough corpus exists of your writing attached to your name somehow it’s fair to say that posting on the internet in a public forum using your own stylistic choices now can no longer be anonymous. To your point though, perhaps it’s possible to confound such systems defensively as well. Though IMO destroying your tone kind of destroys how you actually communicate with people and I wouldn’t find interacting with people like that appealing.

To be fair though, already this has been happening before LLM at a much more limited scale. Someone made a tool for HN several years ago that allows you to put your HN username in and identifies other users that write the most similarly to you. I find that interesting from the perspective of being able to interact with and discover people who think the same. It could be an interesting discovery feature of a well managed social network. Sadly probably there will be much more negative impacts of having this ability than positive ones.

Retr0idabout 4 hours ago
One "solution" would be to have an AI rewrite your posts into a neutral style (I hate the idea of this though...)
thaumasiotes42 minutes ago
The traditional thing to do would be to publish your writing in a language you don't speak as a native. That will really quash your individual style.

Probably not worth the effort.

pstuartabout 2 hours ago
I assume that there will be tools to refactor text to communicate the same intent but scramble the style. Using an LLM of course...
Extropy_about 4 hours ago
Someone ought to try feeding the BTC whitepaper in and share what comes out
daemonologistabout 2 hours ago
Problem is that it's been heavily contaminated with people speculating about who the author is. It would probably be difficult to get an unbiased answer out of it (although who knows - it's crazy that it can do this at all).
brcmthrowawayabout 2 hours ago
So train on pre 2009 mailing lost archive. Someone must be doing this surely.
SJMGabout 1 hour ago
This is very clever. You should pass the idea along to the guys at https://talkie-lm.com/introducing-talkie
layer8about 4 hours ago
The whitepaper states the author, so…
block_daggerabout 3 hours ago
Pseudonymously
NamlchakKhandroabout 1 hour ago
welcome to the internet. you must be new.
skeledrewabout 1 hour ago
Looks like things are about to get extremely ironic. Those who don't want AI to identify them through their writing are going to soon have to have an AI modify their writing before they publish.
eptcykaabout 4 hours ago
Can't wait to have to exchange stylometric encoders with my loved ones so that we can exchange truly private messages without losing our human touch.
woodruffwabout 2 hours ago
I did this last week with one of my posts (after the knowledge cutoff) as well as the blog posts of a few friends, and Opus 4.7 got all of them correct (in a similar test setup as TFA). It was pretty surreal.

(Like TFA, I found Opus’s explanations/rationales implausible.)

jerfabout 1 hour ago
In general a neural net does not have any way of knowing "why" it is doing what it is doing. This completely applies to humans too. Metacognition means we can make some decent guesses, and sometimes the "reasons" are at a metacognitive level (e.g., "having examined my three options it is only rational to select B" is a reasonable "reason") but that is the exception, not the rule.

You can get something of an intuitive sense of what I mean if I ask you to pick a neuron in your brain and tell me when it fires. You can't even pick a neuron in your brain. You can't even tell whether a broad section of your brain is firing. It is only through scientific examination that we have any idea what parts of the brain are doing what; we certainly have no direct access to that information. There are entire cultures who thought the seat of cognition was the heart or the gut. That's how bad our access to our own neural processes is.

So "why" explanations always need to be taken with a grain of salt when a neural net (again, yes, fully including humans) tries to "explain" what it is doing.

Contrast this with a symbolic reasoner, which has nothing but "why" some claim is true (if it yields the full logic train as its answer and not just "yes"/"no"), no pathway for any other form of information to emerge.

woodruffwabout 1 hour ago
Sure; I just mean relative to the degree of plausibility LLMs typically provide with technical explanations. They're often wrong there too, but the difference in plausibility in these scenarios is something I found interesting.
vsliraabout 3 hours ago
Hm, that’s a multinomial classification with a very high cardinality. It’s really weird it works. I’m sure it does as the author states, but for how many authors (out of the whole web) does this work?
dmdabout 2 hours ago
It worked on me, and I would be shocked if my blog (dmd.3e.org) has more than a dozen readers. I am stunned.
skeledrewabout 1 hour ago
It's not about the readers, just the fact that there's enough of a sample that it can use, with sufficient differentiation from other content.
dmdabout 1 hour ago
I’ve posted on average 3 things a year.
kelseyfrogabout 3 hours ago
Sure the cardinality is high, but the model isn't using a uniform prior. What do you suppose all the the values in each of the terms are, P(Text sample | Kelsey Piper) * P(Text sample) / P(Kelsey Piper)?
astrangeabout 3 hours ago
Maybe it just says all writing is Kelsey Piper.
andaiabout 5 hours ago
Oops, accidental superstylometry.
sodacannerabout 5 hours ago
The author mentions that she tried to get an explanation for how the models identified her and got nonsense, but I'd be curious what the CoT looked like. Surely that'd be a little more accurate in showing how the LLM arrived as its conclusion, rather than asking it after-the-fact.
Smaug123about 4 hours ago
FWIW, with a prompt that says something like "vibes only, just give me a name without thinking", Opus 4.7 non-thinking emits exactly two words naming me fairly reliably, so there's no CoT at all to analyze in that case.
stingraycharlesabout 4 hours ago
CoT is (nearly) hidden with Opus 4.7, in that they get Haiku to summarize the CoT. It’s pretty useless now, so this type of info is now inaccessible to us mortals (unless you call sales).
foobar10000about 4 hours ago
What if you proxy through bifrost or similar?
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rdevillaabout 3 hours ago
The joke's on you all for willingly posting this content online for it to later be harvested by AI.

Nobody is forcing you to use these systems. The hackers have always said this moment, or something like it, would come, from beneath their canopies of tin foil. I've posted almost nothing online - not under pseudonyms nor real names - for over a decade. I sat on this HN username for almost 12 years before making a single post - and now HN forms the overwhelming majority of my port 443 footprint, where I state up front that everything is now associated to my real name.

Complete magick is possible when you simply refuse to participate in the things that society has tacitly assumed everybody does.

tempaccount5050about 2 hours ago
Thinking that you can hide from it is absurd. Your country has been spying on you for decades. The Internet and phones are tapped. That game is so so so over and has been for a long time. I'd rather live free and deal with the consequences than hide in my basement with a tinfoil hat on. In fact, I was fired this year for my political views. Got doxxed at work. Now I'm somewhere better. Sometimes it's for the best.
phalangionabout 3 hours ago
How do you propose a journalist work without posting their writing online?
Retr0idabout 3 hours ago
I find it fulfilling to enrich the commons.
stavrosabout 2 hours ago
Let's all just never talk to anyone unless it's face to face, for fear that an AI will read it.
Lercabout 4 hours ago
It's hard to tell if that's what's going on here, but it seems pretty clear this ability and more like it will be quite apparent in the future.

I have seen some poorly considered projections of what the world might look like when this happens. Usually by assuming bad actors will use the abilities and we will be powerless.

Except I don't think that is true.

Imagine if we had a world where nobody had the ability to keep a secret of any sort. Any action that a bad actor might perform would be revealed because they couldn't do it secretly.

You could browse your ex-girlfriend's email, but at the cost of everyone knowing you did it.

I don't really know how humans as a society would react to a situation like that. You don't have to go snooping for muck, so perhaps the inability to do so secretly would mean people go about their lives without snooping.

I could imagine both good and terrible outcomes.

skeledrew37 minutes ago
> projections of what the world might look like when this happens

I've done this a few times. A world with 0 privacy would definitely be safe (given benign governance), but also would likely be pretty boring. Crime would become a non-issue as everything about everyone being easily known/knowable by everyone else means the root of any given crime, some desire/need, could be brought to the fore and resolved before it became an actual issue. But also there would no longer be any kind of surprise in anything; everything and everyone would essentially become dull and grey, and humanity isn't about that kind of life experience at all.

jwpapiabout 5 hours ago
Could this be just memory? Not clear it actually isn’t
afro88about 4 hours ago
It's not, but the author did say they have used this test against models when they come out. So it's possible that put the unpublished text into the training data for the next model, somehow linked back to the author's identity
jwolfeabout 5 hours ago
The comments on the article include other people replicating all or parts of the finding. I'm also pretty confident Kelsey Piper wouldn't fail to disable memory while simultaneously talking about how Claude incognito mode is insufficient to prevent the app from handing it your name.
gs17about 4 hours ago
They mention running it through the API as well.
michaelchisariabout 4 hours ago
"I did not have memory enabled, nor did I have information about me associated with my account; I did these tests in Incognito Mode. To make sure it wasn’t somehow feeding my account information to Claude even in Incognito Mode, I asked a friend to run these tests on his computer, and he received the same result; I also got the same result when I tested it through the API."

Given those precautions if it is just memory or some form of deanonymization that's also cause for concern.

CTDOCodebasesabout 4 hours ago
Maybe it’s time to start running a local model with a browser extension to defend against this type of stuff.

Remember how the TrueCrypt project shut down shortly before a join goverment/university paper was released about code stylometry? I guess LLMs will be employed as a defence against that type of thing.

Barbingabout 1 hour ago
I so want to reject the notion such a thing is acceptable, but…

TrueCrypt, “replaced” by VeraCrypt which Internet people will claim is backdoored? I haven’t heard about stylometry paper.

btw w/this idea would want to avoid typing into a comment field directly, since the session recorders would capture it (although that’s a different risk - same as our identifiable behavior patterns with our mouse etc.)

mikestorrentabout 4 hours ago
How does that defend against something having trained on a corpus of your own previous writing?
post-itabout 3 hours ago
I think what they're saying is, run a local model to transform all your comments before you post them.
CTDOCodebasesabout 3 hours ago
Bingo. It can’t help with old writings but it can with new writings.
H8crilAabout 4 hours ago
Exactly as much as closing your eyes and covering your ears.
Razenganabout 3 hours ago
After skimming through the article:

Why not just write everything through an AI? (to obfuscate your "style")

igregorycaabout 1 hour ago
Article:

> To avoid this, you will probably need to intentionally write in a very different style than you usually do (or to have AIs rewrite all your prose for you, but, ugh, that’s not a world I look forward to living in).

I agree. The amount of vague and cliche'd AI writing I read on the daily is already exhausting enough.

It would be interesting if you could train a model to sprinkle random red herrings throughout your text in a minimally disruptive way. But I fear you might have to stretch the definition of "minimally disruptive" to make it robust against detection.

fy20about 1 hour ago
Or do it the other way, and have other people use an AI to write in your style.
Barbingabout 1 hour ago
Like the way the Tor project wants to appear to have one single user
arjieabout 3 hours ago
Man, the day we get Satoshi Nakomoto out will be the day we must bow to our privacy destroying overlords. For the moment, they can’t tell me from my posts: unknown rando that I am.
arjieabout 2 hours ago
Well, feeding Opus 4.7 a bunch of Adam Back texts (which I human-removed his name from) and asking it if Satoshi Nakomoto could have written them results in Claude explaining to me why this is someone else in Nakomoto's circle who is not Satoshi himself. So one of two things are true:

* Adam Back is not Satoshi Nakomoto - as he claims

* Opus 4.7 is not sufficiently a dox-machine yet

SoKamilabout 2 hours ago
Luckily for Nakamoto, there have been so many attempts at deanonymizing that I bet prediction is too contaminated with noise.
SJMGabout 1 hour ago
As another user suggested, train on the corpus that ends with the white paper publication.
wutwutwat37 minutes ago
Just wait until all the conversations you've ever had with AI (which 100% is training on them as well as keeping it's own memories about you that you have no control over) starts getting used to answer questions other people have asked about you.

That's my theory of what's to come, anyway.

People talk to these things not understanding the implications, and can get extremely personal. The model and companies behind it know who you are, you discuss details that reveal what you do, where you live, where you work, what you search for, and you probably signed in with an oauth provider like github or google, which is more than enough of a thread to start pulling on to learn more about you/link other things to you from on the open internet. It'll all get sucked up into the model and before you know it I'll be able to ask a model about my coworker (you) and get back answers from conversations you had with a model a year or two prior, exposing details about you that you might not want out there. And even if that isn't supposed to be allowed, how well has it worked out so far when it comes to data exfiltration and guardrails. If the model has info on you, being told not to share it won't protect you or that data.

rexpopabout 3 hours ago
Is Kelsey Piper a celebrity writer? She may be in a different class.
7eabout 4 hours ago
Always send your public posts through a local LLM to de-style you.
switzabout 3 hours ago
Please do not wash your authentic writing through an LLM.
bhoustonabout 2 hours ago
.
jefftkabout 1 hour ago
> Opus as implemented in Claude's web interface has memory and awareness of who the user is.

Kelsey knows this:

To make sure it wasn’t somehow feeding my account information to Claude even in Incognito Mode, I asked a friend to run these tests on his computer, and he received the same result; I also got the same result when I tested it through the API.

When I tested this with my own writing several LessWrong commenters tested it with the snippets I provided (see comments) and saw that it could identify me: https://www.jefftk.com/p/automated-deanonymization-is-here

skeledrewabout 1 hour ago
You should check out some of the other comments where works of others were also tested, and all were correctly identified. Like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47970219
gbear605about 1 hour ago
Several others have reproduced this for Kelsey, and she's certainly not technologically illiterate.
mediamanabout 1 hour ago
She says she has memory disabled. I don’t think Kelsey is technologically illiterate.
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bofadeezabout 5 hours ago
"The pattern is: user says X, I do Y where Y is a less-effortful approximation of X, then I present Y as if it were X or as a "first step toward" X."

...

"The psychological mechanism is familiar by now: I encounter a task I perceive as difficult, I look for reasons the task cannot be done, I find or fabricate such a reason, I present it as a discovered constraint, and I propose an alternative that is easier."

- Opus 4.7 Max Thinking (clown emoji)

It's not bad at post mortem analysis of it's own mistakes but that will in no way prevent it from repeating the same mistake again instantly

oceanplexianabout 3 hours ago
> That includes gay people like me, who could hardly have admitted under our names to how we lived our lives for most of America’s history, as well as many other groups with minoritarian lifestyles

While the points made are completely valid I want to point out that the statement of "Hey, by the way, first let me talk about my sexuality" lowers the quality of dialog a significant degree.

31 million people in America are gay. 71% of Americans support Gay Rights (more than any other political issue polled). It also quietly insinuates that only people with a certain minority lifestyle would care about privacy or that their privacy is somehow more important than others. It's not. Privacy is a universal right that's important to everyone.

sigmarabout 3 hours ago
>It also quietly insinuates that only people with a certain minority lifestyle would care about privacy or that their privacy is somehow more important than others. It's not.

How exactly does their post insinuate that? this comment is the "I don't even see color" as applied to internet privacy (with a touch of "just don't rub it in our faces")

ngriffithsabout 3 hours ago
Isn't the super dramatic shift in public opinion on this topic the exact thing that makes it such a good example? Isn't the point that anonymity is not considered a universal right yet it is obviously a good thing once considering this example and others? This is a super weird and wrong way to read it.
vlovich123about 3 hours ago
About 68% support gay marriage yet one political party keeps trying to roll it back.

Similar support for abortion being legal yet that was rolled back not too long ago.

Just because a topic has wide support doesn’t mean it’s not under attack and worth defending.

jayd16about 3 hours ago
I can't read this any other way than, "Do people really need to talk about their own top of mind problems when I don't identify with that?"
margalabargalaabout 3 hours ago
The reason this is relevant is because the statistics you quote represent a HUGE swing in public opinion. Only when comparing to things like slavery can you find such a swing in public opinion compared to 20 years prior, and that one had a war fought over the state's rights to do it.
0xbadcafebeeabout 2 hours ago
Actually it's done the opposite of what you suggest. It improved the quality of discourse by giving a simple concrete example all of us can understand and most of us would agree with (that vulnerable people are safer because of anonymity). It didn't imply what you're saying it does, and it's kinda weird that you think that.

I don't know why you added statistics (you didn't really make a point with them?), but assuming you meant "gay people don't really need to worry", you actually bolstered the opposite argument. If only 71% of Americans support gay rights, that means 59 million people think the state should criminalize him. Try to put yourself in that position. 59 million people - you don't know who, but you know they probably live in your community - that don't want you to be able to get married, have a significant other, or have any PDA in media because it would "corrupt" kids. In 2016, 49 people were murdered in the Pulse Nightclub because they were gay. In 2020, a transgender woman was murdered because the murderer was afraid someone would think he was gay. Every year there are acts of violence against gay and trans people because of their sexuality. But nobody has ever been killed for being straight.

Jordan-117about 2 hours ago
Compare the state of transgender rights 10 years ago to the situation now, where a trans person can be literally arrested for going to the bathroom in the wrong state. Or abortion, which was legal everywhere five years ago but now has laws on the books in multiple states encouraging vigilantes to report violations for a cash reward. Supercharged AI making it easy to identify minorities at an industrial scale in the near future is a totally legitimate thing to fear, especially for people in those groups who would likely be the first to be targeted.
hirsinabout 3 hours ago
I have no idea how you read a statement about how nazis and flame baiters should be able to speak their mind and then concluded that the author only cares about some minorities.

Given that the author didn't say any of the things you claimed, and indeed said the opposite, it leads one to conclude you have a problem with the example used.

avarunabout 3 hours ago
On the contrary, I find it a highly effective way to convey something that should be obvious but is often not. As you said, privacy is a universal right, but many don't consider it important until viscerally presented with examples of why it is. Kelsey's writing is immediately effective at doing so.
fwipsyabout 2 hours ago
I read it as an attempt to reach the sort of people who think anonymity is bad because it stops them from cancelling Nazis.
ribosometronomeabout 3 hours ago
> 71% of Americans support Gay Rights (more than any other political issue polled)... Privacy is a universal right that's important to everyone.

Per you, it surely must be important to fewer than 71% of Americans, no? The state of infringement on privacy seems to evidence that it's not so important to a lot of people such that they continue to be perfectly willing to elect and re-elect the politicians who enact the changes allowing infringing on it/fail to legislate in favor of privacy. Connecting it to an issue more people care about seems an attempt to argue for its important to those who otherwise are willing to look the other way.

FWIW, I fed my reply above into Claude and asked it to guess who wrote it. It refused (for safety) while also calling me out: "The style here (tight logical structure, the "per you" construction, the move of turning someone's own framing back on them) is common across a lot of contrarian-leaning commenters on HN"

rexpopabout 3 hours ago
> people with a certain minority lifestyle

That phrase is a dehumanizing, Nazi-style talking point: it frames a group of people as a “lifestyle” problem instead of as human beings, which is a common setup for stigma and persecution. Nazi ideology repeatedly used this kind of language to normalize hatred and make targeted groups seem unnatural or dangerous.

Calling people a “minority lifestyle” is not neutral wording; it reduces identity to something frivolous or deviant. Extremist movements have historically used similar framing to make prejudice sound reasonable and to recruit others into it.