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#brain#something#https#things#more#bad#already#brains#don#videos

Discussion (68 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

Unearned5161about 2 hours ago
This is very similar to last week with that mind reading startup thing. Please read the paper before commenting.

This is a tool to help researchers in figuring out what different parts of the brain are actually for with less experimenter bias contamination of “well we think maybe it’s about this so let’s show it video of x to see”.

The essence runs on having someone sit in a scanner for a couple hours watching all sorts of things, and then feeding that to a model that will then build its own representation of said data and try different things on it until it’s found what makes a certain part sing in the model.

The purpose is a generalized understanding of brain function, more or less the same way we’ve been doing it all these years. Expose brain to something, record it somehow, see if brains reaction in the recording helps you understand more about who we are and what cognition is.

customguy25 minutes ago
What is a "purpose"? Something people wish something would only be used for, right? How does it relate to, what influence does it have on what something will end up being used for?
da_grift_shiftabout 1 hour ago
>Expose brain to something, record it somehow, see if brains reaction in the recording helps you understand more about who we are and what cognition is.

It also helps companies like Moonbug Entertainment (Candle Media) understand how to build better Distractatrons.

    It’s a small TV screen, placed a few feet from the larger one, that plays a continuous loop of banal, real-world scenes — a guy pouring a cup of coffee, someone getting a haircut — each lasting about 20 seconds. Whenever a youngster looks away from the Moonbug show to glimpse the Distractatron, a note is jotted down.

    “It’s not mega-interesting, what’s on the Distractatron,” said Maurice Wheeler, who runs the research group. “But if they aren’t fully focused, they might go, ‘Oh, what’s that?’ and kind of drift over. We can see what they’re looking at and the exact moment when they got distracted.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/05/arts/television/cocomelon...

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/06/17/cocomelon-chil...

What a world.

x______________24 minutes ago
> ...the Distractatron

I can see it now.. The Distractatrons: a new chapter of protagonists in Transformers! The modern equivalent of evil in this day and age of ADHD and low attention span!

aswegs8about 1 hour ago
I know a technology like that was used ~20 years ago for ADHD. EEG feedback, as soon as the kid looks away or zones out, the movie stops playing.
ben_wabout 3 hours ago
As others on Telegram have said: automated search for visual superstimuli likely leads to bad outcomes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernormal_stimulus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLIT_(short_story)

Also: one of the V3A animations reminds me loosely of things I saw when I was a kid, at night, shortly before I slept (though my experience then was more circular).

aswegs8about 1 hour ago
Breaking news: TikTok is bad for you
baxtrabout 2 hours ago
On telegram?
idiotsecant12 minutes ago
There are undoubtedly 'adversarial images' that will induce certain effects in particular biological minds. It seems like this is neither good or bad inherently, just another tool.
stymaar10 minutes ago
So are opioids.

Or how a very useful tool can become a public health catastrophe.

sudo_cowsayabout 3 hours ago
Isn't there that one Harry Potter warning. I think it was the potion guy who said too much luck is dangerous. I guess that is somewhat of a parallel to this. Too much positive visual stimuli is dangerous or bad.
Tenemoabout 2 hours ago
Others on Telegram? Some sort of a HN channel?
TMWNNabout 3 hours ago
Or as SCP calls them, cognitohazards.

Also relevant: <https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-math-theory-for-why-people-...>

My understanding is that those who work with the mentally handicapped use bright lights and other stimuli to soothe and control them. It is also my understanding that the autistic are stimulated by vibrant colors (coughcoughMy Little Ponycoughcough).

Who is to say that the rest of us are not also vulnerable to such controlling stimuli?

ben_wabout 3 hours ago
Bright lights in particular, I'm thinking: yes, normal people do find sunbathing relaxing.
voidmainabout 2 hours ago
We are really getting to the point where the tech industry must be stopped if humanity is to continue at all, let alone thrive.
tefkahabout 2 hours ago
This does indeed seem comically evil. While surely this may provide somewhat interesting insights in how our brain processes things, this seems squarely past the "should" part of "you scientists were so obsessed with whether you could you failed to consider whether you should"
p-e-wabout 2 hours ago
> This does indeed seem comically evil.

And I have yet to see a single paper like this where a researcher bails out and publicly says they refuse to work on such projects. Not one.

The most benign interpretation of this observation is that science is filled with spineless opportunists who don’t care who they hurt with what they create. A slightly less benign interpretation might be that many of these people are doing this deliberately, and getting off on the sense of power it gives them.

QuadmasterXLII12 minutes ago
I was asked to train a neural network do detect how much pain a mouse was in- our partner company would be responsible for hurting and filming the mice. I refused and subsequently quit- this produced no paper and I don’t know if they got someone else to do it. I probably should have done something stronger.
rightbyteabout 1 hour ago
When skip level bosses on my last job wanted to do boneheaded things in automotive design they usually had to keep asking different engineers until they got a yay.

When it is pushed from the top it is hard to stop at ground level.

Cakez0rabout 2 hours ago
In their defence, don't shoot the messenger. Just because they published it doesn't mean that others haven't already discovered it. Better to know its possible than be completely ignorant.
pishpashabout 2 hours ago
Would it be better if this was done on monkeys? Because people did that before this in silico digital brain stuff.
pishpashabout 2 hours ago
These aren't scientists. They are techbros. That's why it comes out like this.
sebastianconcpt14 minutes ago
I share your concern but the generalization is improper (that as solution would be infinitely far worst than the problem)
renyicircleabout 2 hours ago
I'd say we're already well past that point. Short-form "content" already exists and is messing with people's brains, this is the same thing just taken a few steps further. By the time the tech companies start using it, it will already be too late and we'll be left discussing whether the next man-made nightmare they come up with is the point where the tech industry must be stopped.
dr_kiszonkaabout 2 hours ago
I get that people see this and think: ads and social media. My first thought was cognitive neurorehabilitation and brain stimulation.

Realistically, probably ads, but maybe not only that?

(AI start-up idea: one of our ads a day keeps dementia away! /s)

fnoefabout 2 hours ago
You can't say things like this on this website. On here, every new tech thing is a "progress" /s
jeffrallenabout 2 hours ago
Progress, but towards what?
zx8080about 2 hours ago
Ads efficacy, of course.
StefanBatoryabout 2 hours ago
Think of the shareholders and Capital. Money matters more than human, commie. /s
nullbioabout 2 hours ago
This is already happening at scale by the social media feed algorithms. We don't need generated content to accomplish this. In a sea of user created content, plenty of it is already at peak activation.
momocowcowabout 2 hours ago
The plan is to get content producers out of the loop to reduce revenue share and boost profits.
amanharshxabout 2 hours ago
WOW! Cant wait to tell to future generations that we had voluntarily made these algorithms to manipulate and influence our own brains
drivebyhootingabout 3 hours ago
throwaw12about 2 hours ago
Apart from ethically bad and evil use cases of this application, can we use it to massage the parts of brain like we do it to our bones and muscles with the help of physiotherapists?

reason I am asking it could be some relief to our brains after tedious working day, especially after heavy AI usage

bootsmannabout 2 hours ago
Its also an interesting way to discover what that part of the brain is for, right.
awestrokeabout 1 hour ago
what the brain needs is Default Mode Network, not more stimuli
Gecko4072about 2 hours ago
Very interesting. We have an organic experiment converging to maximum stimulation in short form videos (which will become the majority of training data for future video gen models) Already approaching the capabilities of a “mood organ” from blade runner. Except usually most people don’t even make the choice to change their mood anymore. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Androids_Dream_of_Electric_...
aacidabout 2 hours ago
What are these videos supposed to do? I watched few of them and it does nothing for me?

if it is targetting visual regions of brain and I have aphantasia (I cannot visualize anything in my mind) is that connected?

pona-aabout 2 hours ago
The title reads a lot like the lab logs you'd find in a horror game.

But for the paper itself, it seems they're using genetic optimization over predefined keywords. Wonder what would happen if they did gradient descent on the latent space directly. Is brain stimulation just not a good domain for GD?

Orochikakuabout 2 hours ago
I wonder if the end-game of this field of research will be to run these simulations at scale using neuron-on-a-chip services such as [0] Cortical Cloud.

I don't think it's a matter of if but when. Grim.

[0] https://corticallabs.com/cloud

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pockybum52225 minutes ago
Inventing Snow Crash. Neat.
stymaar7 minutes ago
See Zuck, the metaverse failed, but who said the mind control part couldn't work?
calebgccabout 2 hours ago
I wonder what Meta could do with a similar technology…

But here we can start also the usual discussion about technology research for the sake of it vs calibration of possible side effects of new research

Personally i think we haven’t solve this problem and thus it’s just a matter of time until we’ll get in a non-going-back point

dnplsabout 1 hour ago
The whole site looks AI generated. Those 3D brains are... smooth.
StefanBatoryabout 2 hours ago
How can one work on that and not consider that they're pure evil?
t0loabout 2 hours ago
Think of the shareholders (it's time to start using physical force to stop people)
JoelTheNewGuy35 minutes ago
Future looks bright....
numpad0about 2 hours ago
Wait, this is with a digital twin only? Not fMRI or webcam based?
55555about 2 hours ago
What in the zuck is this?
karel-3dabout 3 hours ago
I can't wait until I see AI-generated gambling ads that are specifically created to stimulate my brain the most
whearyouabout 3 hours ago
Straight out of Echopraxia.

Will be interesting to see how strong the controlling forces can be - enough to make you miss things in direct perception like in the book, or only softer effects further up the cognition layer stack

fragmedeabout 3 hours ago
That's fascinating. I wish the demo videos were longer.
weikjuabout 2 hours ago
Am I the only one who is avoiding even clicking the link just in case?
rightbyteabout 1 hour ago
It is like screen saver moving patterns or corridors with a strange field of view zooming effect.

Nothing special compared to purpose made screen savers.

cyclopeanutopiaabout 2 hours ago
No, you are not alone.
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FeepingCreatureabout 2 hours ago
"Prime Intellect, I would like you to begin stimulating the neurons of the pleasure center of my brain, one at a time, and remember the ones I report to you as being favorable."
stainablesteelabout 2 hours ago
these videos were disappointing and underwhelming
whywhywhywhyabout 2 hours ago
If you read the techbique it reads like something far less remarkable being PR’d to sound like a big deal.

The fact it’s bucketing by making images of lighting and facial expressions, the fact it doesn’t natively do the video it does an image then video generates from it.

The results look really bad and samey. Doubt this would work for the actual thing they’re pitching it for.

Traubenfuchsabout 3 hours ago
My brain never liked vertical video, shortform content and AI slop.

Is my brain different or am I just a grumpy millenial hipster?

sebastiennightabout 2 hours ago
My current theory is that these are similar to cigarettes. Nobody likes the first draft, it burns your lungs, your entire body wants to reject it. But the nicotine stimulates just the right receptors so that if you keep at it for just long enough, you'll be hooked and start disregarding the terrible taste, smell, tar in your lungs, and yellowing of your teeth.

All of this to say, if you subjected yourself to just enough TikTok scrolling on just the right topic, you might find yourself using it occasionally after that initial hump, then slightly more frequently, then daily.

You might still not "like" it, but the habit is what matters.

rightbyteabout 1 hour ago
I have the opposite theory. I burned my self out on cheap and bad image gen meme sites like 15 years ago until the point I hated memes.

Prior exposure to worse feeds gives like an analytical look on the vids rather than emotional. I am fast scanning for the joke. Or something.

Traubenfuchs12 minutes ago
As a teenager, I tried to get addicted to cigarettes so I could stand by the cool kids and smoke with them. I started smoking 4-6 cigarettes a day but hated it so much, I couldn't continue after a week or two...
xen_relayabout 2 hours ago
You're not alone!
TMWNNabout 2 hours ago
I hope my brain is also different. I also have never spent hours scrolling through short-form videos on Instagram, TikTok, Facebok, etc. I never ever walk outside with my phone in my hand, instead enjoying the view.

I do enjoy watching YouTube videos at home, on the living-room flatscreen, on a variety of topics, but I select them manually, one at a time, from the vast selection The Algorithm(TM) offers me, plus my own searches.