Back to News
Advertisement
Advertisement

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

75% Positive

Analyzed from 649 words in the discussion.

Trending Topics

#svd#singular#values#matrix#rgb#claude#code#doesn#approximation#https

Discussion (14 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

muragekibicho•about 2 hours ago
For the curious, eigenvalues only exist for square matrices. Singular values are like generalized eigenvalues.

Singular values are like the fundamental frequencies of your matrix. You know how you can define any color with RGB? In a (pretty handwavy) way, singular values are like RGB color codes for us math guys.

Optimizers like Muon and Adam play around with weights' first, or second order singular values to train models.

big-chungus4•about 1 hour ago
Last statement is a bit sus... Muon computes matrix sign function which can be defined as setting singular values to 1, though you can also define it without SVD. Muon itself doesn't use SVD because it uses a faster method to compute matrix sign. Adam doesn't do anything related to SVD or singular values. Also not sure what you meant by "second order singular values"
jmalicki•23 minutes ago
ADAM is related if your second derivative matrix happens to be diagonal.

Of course, it takes about 5 minutes to show that any DNN is going to have very very high magnitude off-diagonal terms by the way it's constructed, so pretending that a diagonal approximation is close enough is crazy.

toolslive•about 1 hour ago
Just going to sound really pedantic here, but RGB does not capture the entire colour space. In fact, it only captures about 35% of the colours the human eye can perceive.

https://www.oceanopticsbook.info/view/photometry-and-visibil...

wtallis•about 1 hour ago
You seem to be conflating "RGB" with one particular RGB color space: sRGB. That's a common enough conflation to make, but not appropriate when you're trying to be pedantic.
toolslive•about 1 hour ago
Doesn't matter: there's no RGB model that captures the colour space. That exactly the reason CIE exists.
piker•about 1 hour ago
Okay, but that was a really useful metaphor if incomplete in a lot of ways. It made me say “oh”.
esafak•26 minutes ago
This is solved through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_color#Imaginary_primar... that sit outside the visible spectrum.
jmalicki•6 minutes ago
Some fun stuff about SVDs:

If you want to take a low rank approximation to a matrix D, let's call our approximation D'. The approximation that minimizes mean square error of the reconstructed matrix vs. the original (i.e. ||D - D'||_F, the Frobenius norm of their differences) happens to be the truncated SVD, by the Eckart–Young–Mirsky theorem [0].

I'm not claiming it's a practical way to do so, but this means that if you set up a neural network w/o nonlinearities that goes U -> S -> V^T, where S is a truncated embedding vector, and U and V^T are trained weights, make your loss function the MSE of reconstruction error, and minimize it with gradient descent, you will end up with the same U, S, and V that an SVD gives you.

In fact, this is basically exactly what a Variational Autoencoder [1] is! Way too few people realize this connection, and I wish it was taught in more ML courses. VAEs just add nonlinearities between U -> nonlinearity -> S -> nonlinearity -> V^T, and a KL-divergence regularization term.

Once you realize this, you can have a lot of fun... anywhere you see an SVD being useful, you can construct arbitrary neural networks to replace them, and any time an SVD doesn't quite fit, e.g. you have binary data, realize that VAEs are just the same thing you can make all kinds of bespoke changes to... don't want MSE as your reconstruction error? Fine, use something else, but it's basically just an SVD!

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-rank_approximation#Basic_l... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variational_autoencoder

waynecochran•about 2 hours ago
The SVD seems to come up everywhere in my work in computer vision. I find myself continuously using the various C++/Eigen SVD implementations. Actually I should speak in the past tense. Claude and Codex are now generating all my code for me now, and I see them spitting out SVD code frequently -- often for very special cases. SVD truly is an amazing tool.
eigenspace•about 1 hour ago
It comes up anywhere that youre working with data that has some sort of correlation structure.

In image processing, the SVD makes it possible to talk about all the rich spatial correlations in the image, and pick out the strongest ones and discard noise.

This is also why it's so ubiquitous in compression algorithms, and of central importance in stuff like quantum information.

fooblaster•about 1 hour ago
what work are you doing in computer vision that isn't entirely ML these days?
TimorousBestie•about 1 hour ago
> Claude and Codex are now generating all my code for me now, and I see them spitting out SVD code frequently -- often for very special cases.

I find this so annoying. I had to PR some Claude-generated gaussian elimination routine last month and making sure it got the pivoting logic correct was a waste of my time.

waynecochran•7 minutes ago
You are doing it wrong. Have Claude generate the test code and log test data that it can feed back into itself. Claude can generate tests and verify the code better than humans now. I don't trust humans to get things right anymore -- I have a PhD and Claude knows all the math and libraries better than me.