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27% Positive

Analyzed from 1086 words in the discussion.

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#flock#don#data#directly#cloudflare#https#problem#down#access#privacy

Discussion (41 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

CqtGLRGcukpyabout 4 hours ago
Non-cloudflare link that basically says the same thing: https://mstdn.social/@stux/117186158784673388
totallymikeabout 4 hours ago
Why is cloudflare a problem?
zbrozekabout 3 hours ago
Because they slow down and often block access to websites, particularly for people that try to avoid being fingerprinted or otherwise tracked. Pretty evil behavior.
nickffabout 3 hours ago
It is very challenging to distinguish individuals interested in privacy from bots acting maliciously or with reckless indifference. If you devise a way to do this more effectively than Cloudflare, you should start a business to sell this as a service.
webdoodleabout 3 hours ago
Don't listen to these hecklers, you have every right to your privacy, and should demand it. Anonymity is paramount if people want to be able to talk without repercussions. Gaslighting, heckling and other forms of harassment are to convince you to self censor. Don't take the bait. Ignore them.
neyaabout 3 hours ago
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
essephabout 3 hours ago
> Because they slow down and often block access to websites, particularly for people that try to avoid being fingerprinted or otherwise tracked. Pretty evil behavior.

Bots and scrapers and hackers also try and avoid being tracked, which is by far a bigger problem for them and most websites than the 15 of us using tons of antifingerprinting techniques. Evil? No, that's silly.

JohnFenabout 3 hours ago
Cloudflare doesn't reliably let me through.
dlcarrierabout 2 hours ago
It regularly blocks me too. I've begun search Google for: what does [url] say about [search query]

It'll make a Gemini summary of the page, and can be prompted for more details. It's really the only use for Gemini I've found reliable. I'd still rather directly view the output of the scraper bot, though.

If anyone knows a good scraping bot that lets you view the output directly, without running it through an LLM, please let me know.

platesmead43 minutes ago
"Doxxing is bad except when it's against people I dislike"?

If people don't want CCTV, campaign to make it illegal.

cocacola1about 3 hours ago
It’s been interesting to see this vitriol towards Flock increase over the past couple of months or so.
bamboozledabout 1 hour ago
What is interesting about it ?
alexjplantabout 1 hour ago
Because Flock is the first company to so brazenly violate the post-2011 social contract: if you're going to track somebody you need to give them coupons and content as compensation. They have failed to provide the people whose privacy they are violating with internet drama and buttcheeks videos. Other companies with many times greater reach and market cap collect GPS, cell tower, and 802.11 ESSID data to observe their users' movements; they track them across web sites and apps without explicit consent to serve personalized advertisements and adjust prices for durable goods and services depending upon user behavior. They do this with impunity because people enjoy short-form videos and image macros and will readily trade their privacy for easy access to them. Flock has nothing to offer in this regard. This is why they are shunned whereas other companies that understand how this game is played are forgiven for equivalent or worse sins.
camillomillerabout 1 hour ago
I think they spelled satisfying wrong
artisinalabout 3 hours ago
In the USA, is it really that easy to find the home address of a business owner?

The EU briefly had a similar registry but that got shut down quickly.

stingraeabout 3 hours ago
Basically yes. There are a large number of public repositories of data that can dox a persons address. Like property tax rolls, company filings etc. some of these are actually required by Europe (https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/manage-co..., which I do not appreciate)
dlcarrierabout 1 hour ago
Yes, but only for the business directly owned. In the US, it's perfectly legal to run things through shell companies that make things much more difficult. E.g. instead of directly owning the company, he could put his share in fully-owned shell company, based in a country that doesn't report the owner.
hattmallabout 3 hours ago
Not really, it looks like this guy originally registered the business at his personal residence which is not really common. Kinda surprised if he still lives there considering how FLOCK has expanded.
lotsofpulpabout 3 hours ago
Land records are public in most US locales. You can type in almost any residential address on homes.com and it will show you who owned it when and with what loan terms.
ChrisArchitectabout 4 hours ago
webdoodleabout 3 hours ago
Ironically most of the people reading this are doing so on an always connected phone with a fused battery, that they can't trust, because they don't control it. It also has significantly more capabilities that a flock camera, and they likely pay for it too.
kadobanabout 2 hours ago
That's not ironic, that's _hey, look over there!_
ethanwillisabout 3 hours ago
It's called choice. Maybe a dumb choice, but a choice!
HDBaseTabout 2 hours ago
false equivalence.
yonranabout 3 hours ago
The article is very one sided, implying without evidence that Flock is for recreational tracking of individuals. With San Francisco SFPD’s ALPR cameras at least, this would be an abuse of the cameras according to the policy linked from https://transparency.flocksafety.com/san-francisco-ca-pd. Here are the Authorized purposes:

Locate stolen, wanted, and or other vehicles that are the subject of investigation

To apprehend wanted persons subject to arrest warrants or who are otherwise lawfully sought by law enforcement.

To locate victims, witnesses, suspects, missing children, adults, and/or elderly individuals, including in response to Amber Alerts and Silver Alerts and others associated with a law enforcement investigation.

To assist with criminal investigations initiated by local, state and regional public safety departments by identifying vehicles associated with targets of criminal investigations.

Counter-terrorism: Identify potential threats to critical infrastructure sites.

For other law enforcement purposes as authorized by law: Investigations of major crimes.

Which of these uses do people not like? Or which other policies are people concerned with in other jurisdictions?

defrostabout 3 hours ago
Not on the list, but documented:

* Live monitoring of teenagers in gyms for sales purposes,

* Multiple counts of stalking by LEOs,

* Instances of unsecured access,

* Multiple erroneous plate matching directly leading to "swatting" of women and children on day to day shopping trips.

yonran13 minutes ago
The Dunwoody MJCC monitoring seems the worst incident in that Flock never issued a postmortem on how the terms of the sharing were violated.

Abuses in violation of policy are a problem like in any organization that can be reduced through auditing, discipline, etc. And it seems that the ones that have been caught (Jarmarus Brown of Orange City, FL; Asad Zahir of Shively, KY; Emily Pacheco of New Bedford, MA) have been disciplined and/or charged.

Insufficient security of devices is a problem but does not have to do with my comment about the intended uses.

Officers have to be trained about OCR errors, just like we have to know when to trust an LLM. The SFPD policy I linked says officers shall “Visually verify the alphanumeric characters on the plate” before stopping a car identified by ALPR. And like LLM hallucinations OCR errors will go down over time.

lostlogin40 minutes ago
> The article is very one sided

Of course it is. If we want a Flock press release we can just read one.

Plenty of things have lots of great upsides, and it’s the downsides that stop wider adoption and cause regulation and limits.

soulofmischiefabout 3 hours ago
The unwarranted mass surveillance and dragnet part. We have a thing called the fourth Constitutional amendment here in the United States. We also have the first amendment, which the Supreme Court has ruled in the past must not be subject to a "chilling effect".

The Flock camera system, and any dragnet surveillance system, is a direct chilling effect to the rights to freedom of speech, freedom from religious persecution and freedom of assembly.

The inalienable aspect of these rights means that literally no example or rationalization you can provide would justify impacting those rights for even a single individual or group.

srousseyabout 1 hour ago
You carry a phone with you broadcasting constantly. Not sure why police just don’t buy your location data from data brokers. Maybe they do…
defrost25 minutes ago
> You carry a phone with you broadcasting constantly.

You know them personally?

I can't speak for them but I, for one, don't.

chewsabout 3 hours ago
161 people in LA were stopped for bad data using flock cameras. The contract with them is canceled but the damn things are still up giving data to DHS probably.