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"close to Renault's factory in the town of Cléon", which is now preparing to start manufacturing drones for the French military, in collaboration with Ukrainian military-industrial groups.
https://nos.nl/video/2631081-startkabels-van-spoor-bij-meppe... ("Startkabels van spoor bij Meppel weggehaald")
If one were in a charitable mood, one could think of this as a "just in case" measure of ongoing capability assurance in the event of a broader conflict. In a less charitable mood, one might imagine it as preparation for proactive action. In either case, if you don't do this kind of sub-threshold stuff at least occasionally, you often discover that when a real conflict erupts, the capabilities you thought you had are in fact literally or figuratively rusty. (See the Russian army's logistical debacle early in the Ukraine war for a recent example.)
Most top tier nation states do some version of this; each one has its own style. The Russians are somewhat unusual in that they care less than most who knows or suspects them of this kind of activity.
It is really a rather common playbook of stoking fear and even instigating war not for direct outcomes that has been used innumerable times over history. Only it seems that the majority of people are incapable of seeing, accepting, or maybe just internalizing when they are being played, lied to, and manipulated for the benefit of others at their own expense.
One thing that logic would dictate though is that Russia would be extremely low on the list of suspects since they gain nothing by some minor event like this, are negatively affected in every manner possible by being in any way behind such actions, and they could simply just send barrages of missiles to hit actually meaningful targets if they ever become sick and tired of all the CIA/MI6 clowns thinking they can salami slice their way into conquering Russia and once the Germans and Poles have been whipped up to be the battering ram of minced meat again.
It's why we have so many catastrophic and calamitous events in our history because people never ask themselves who may be benefitting from the act that is immediately used to manipulate people through fear. In spite of having been told and explained a long time ago and many times since, you should always ask you who benefits, cui bono. Russia does not benefit from scaring the populace into supporting the murderous and war mongering governments and the maniacal ruling parasites that control them in order to profit from war as they send your children in to the meat grinder.
It started small, just check this or that, little favor there but soon escalated to proper spycraft. Some other folks reported having death threats against family. Its for peanuts, few hundred euros mostly. They just need to find the dumbest and most desperate folks to commit acts of treason.
From what I read, the similarity ends in “both involved trains”. This chain of attacks seems to have used short metal pipes (“Footage published by Dutch public broadcaster NOS on Tuesday showed police carrying what appeared to be metal pipes - about 1.5 metres (5ft) long”) to short a connection, making safety systems signal “there’s a train there”, stopping trains further up the track.
The France incident involved a piece of rails heavy enough to cause derailment (“The rail fragment was estimated to weigh between 250 and 300 kilograms”)
My money is on this being a rogue farmers protest.
Volkswagen is laying off 100k of workers, because they can't make cars people can afford anymore... blame russia! Germans fed up with merz and vote afd? Russia! Macron doesn't even have 20% of support in polls anymore? Russia! Stub your pinky on the corner of the bed? russia!
[0] https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/pr/pair-charged-interferin... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy5zw56lnx3o [2] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/france-leaning-towards-...
- Extinction Rebellion and other environmental groups always claim the action pretty quickly and openly in NL.
- If you look at the locations of sabotage, it’s all close to the ‘farmer heartland’. Most left-wing and environmental groups would do it in the randstad.
Most likely it’s farmers. They announced very heavy protests today and also burnt hay near highways to create smoke clouds. Possibly nudged by Russian operatives because the like to sow dissent.
But we’ll see.
I'm French and I heard nothing of the sort, what makes you think of that?
They've now hidden the label, but Wildberries carry almost a 1/4 million items tagged "Everything for the SMO" ("special military operation"), so hardly a civilian target. Ukraine has been highly disciplined in going after military targets, other than energy, which of course also feeds the Russian war machine.
There is a big difference between starting fires in a warehouse which gives most people a chance to escape, and being like the Russians who were murdering and raping civilians in Dobas etc, firing missiles non-stop into civilian areas of Kyiv.
There are also consequences in letting Russia take Ukraine militarily.
Whatever you think about the motivations and the desired end goal, actions and lack of actions both have consequences
While the consensus is that it's likely a Russia controlled/allied battery shot it down - I'm not sure anybody thinks it was anything other than an accident, not an intentional act of sabotage.
...this after Russia has been targeting civilian targets in Ukraine from the first days of the invasion.
They repeatedly declared razing whole western Europe and western world with nuclear weapons, annihilating hundreds of millions. They repeatedly stated their goal is to at least restore former USSR with eastern bloc acting as a shield/nuclear battlefield at all costs, same as it was during cold war.
Then they started their military push, and if Ukraine didn't fight back with everything they had they may have stopped only at Austria/German eastern border (probably West Germany one).
But you should know all this mister troll, don't you. I don't mind, repeating (sad) facts about russia can be a hobby and internet should be full of it.
I dont remember seeing Lavrov delivering a declaration of war to this “whole west” diplomatic core. Got any real sources to back this absurd claim?
The pro-russian historic fanfiction asserts that "Putin was forced to war or NATO would have expanded to ukraine or something"
There is no conceivable scenario where Russians would have worse safety than what Putin's decision caused. Heck, the long range drones attacking Russia today would simple not exist.
People say trump is Putin's stooge, but honestly Putin looks like a western plant. Nobody else since Stalin has killed as many Russians than Putin.
And the Western-built railway system has been used for war/military reasons since its very inception (almost), it's how Prussia got the best over the Habsburgs at Sadowa in the 1860s. One could also say that Tsarist Russia not yet having a rail connection to Crimea just before that caused them to be defeated against the Western incursion at Sevastopol.
Bringing the war to them and getting the public to want their government to commit blood and treasure to doing something about it is a ferociously poor strategic decision from the Kremlin. "That Putin killed a 17 year old French girl on her way to school on the train" is unlikely to cause the public in the West to back down.
But somehow you're trying to spin it into it's Western governments are the ones wanting to bring war?
You know, the guys that had a huge part of their economy on top of Russian gas? The guys that closed their eyes when part of Georgia was occupied? Or ignored Crimea occupation?
Those people are the ones who watched Russia kill 200 people in the flight MH17 without consequences.
That's cultivating apathy?
https://nos.nl/liveblog/2631038-nog-steeds-nieuwe-sabotageac... (Use google translate to read)
(I'd assume the BBC reporter to be aware that Prinsjesdag is today, and that they'd mention that fact in this article, but apparently not.)
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwn8mjl31p5yo
The day on which the reigning monarch of the Netherlands addresses a joint session of the States-General of the Netherlands (consisting of the Senate and the House of Representatives) to give the Speech from the Throne (Dutch: Troonrede), similar to the annual State of the Union in the United States or the British State Opening of Parliament. This speech sets out the main features of government policy for the coming parliamentary session.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinsjesdag
Russia may have heard about that annual event as well, of course.
If the garbage men started dumping the contents of garbage bags in public places I bet they will not be given a free pass.
This is russian sabotage + russian trolls now trying to make it look like it's something else
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025%E2%80%932026_Birmingham_b...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqxlxv0vvnxo
You are right in the sense that there is likely an underlying meddling causing these farmers to act this way. It does not excuse their actions.
Go drink some vodka Vasily.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcohol-c...
One has to be an idiot to assume otherwise at this point
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjx2zgk7edlzo
Russians been messing with your elections, blowing up factories, inducing illegal immigration, destroying infrastructure and openly threatening to turn Europe into a radioactive dust. Meanwhile people: "hopefully investigators find out".
Seriously, this is ridiculous
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjPpX1g1juo
Anyway, I am surprised the BBC blogger didn't add north koreans and some linked it to porn on the internet.
Basically, the current system works by injecting a small current signal on one rail and trying to sense it on the other rail. A train's axle shorts the rails together, so sensing it means a train is present. Or, in this instance of sabotage, a jumper wire.
ERTMS L2, which is being installed over the next decade or two, primarily uses axle counters and train position reporting, so a jumper won't do a thing. You can still fool an axle counter, but that's rather easy to fix: just drive a known-good train over the section.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Nazi_Germany#National_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Text_of_the_law...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Days_of_Repentance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Day_of_Democracy...
No idea when it would start but there are only two outcomes I can see:
* Russia doesn't use nukes and get flattened. They don't have the troops, material or finances to deploy on even half the frontline.
* Russia use nukes and get flattened (and so does a chunk of EU). French doctrine when it come to nuclear warfare is quite agressive. Not idea how london would react, but major russian cities and/or ressource hubs would see retalations on kind.
I don't know how much support or opposition from the population such actions would have, but people are getting fed up with external threat burning so much of our governments time and attention on external issues (brexit, babysitting trump, russian threat) that internal issues get further pushed to the future.
I would add 'Western-' to that. The Eastern Europeans are keenly aware, have been for years.
- Dutch person.
I was like hmmmm what timeline am I in now?
It’s so much more likely to be the farmers, but it's easier to blame Putin and do nothing about it than it is to stop ruining the farmers and risk angering the cosmopolitan politicians whose votes in the parliament you need.
It seems as if one ambiguates the other.
Zuständigkeitspingpong
competence table tennis
"responsibility table tennis" would be a better fit.
Competence in english translates to the skill side of the word
I am not surprised.
> competence table tennis
Magnificent!
Interestingly this mechanism contributed a lot to Brexit in my opinion, whenever there was legislation the politicians wanted to enact but knew would be unpopular with the voters they'd blame the EU and wring their hands saying there was nothing to be done, while in the background gold-plating the legislation far beyond what the EU was even asking for. This also made it easy for populists to point to many absurd examples of the EU being comically bureaucratic, when a lot of the more nonsensical ones were literally domestic additions. When the referendum happened, the consequences were obvious to everyone.
While no Brexiteer myself, I personally would want to see the European Parliament get a lot more powers and influence before I threw my wholehearted support behind rejoining. Half the problem with the EU is that it's seen as not particularly democratic as a place for legislation to originate, and giving the elected organ more power (including the power to propose legislation in its own right, and dismiss legislation proposed by the Commission with much more prejudice) would go a long way to addressing that I think. The Parliament needs to be more, well, parliamentary in how it functions.
(Some media literally blamed putin because people voted for afd in the recent state election in germany).
We’re under constant attacks from Russia… drones, sabotage, cyberattacks, propaganda campaigns derailing our elections…
I’m sick of it.
And if this is supposed to be war, then by European standards it is incredibly mild.
Edit: some context as I'm looking like a Russian shill now, which I understand. Today is the day that the budget gets announced, and the farmer terrorist organization (farmer defence force) have announced actions - and have disrupted highways by setting bales of hay on fire, and all the disruptions happened where farmer concentrations are high.
Regardless, the situation is dire, and probably either the tankies or terror farmers are being helped by Russian destabilizing forces, it's too early to call this disruption an action from the FSB.
I don't know enough about dutch politics but in my country if the blue collar anti-regulation people wanted to annoy the white collar pro-regulation people without annoying other blue collar people stopping the trains would accomplish that pretty handily.
>and definitely not in a way that could result in deaths.
They laid pipes and jumper cables across the tracks causing the signals to be red.
We in NL need to be more concerned about domestic terrorism than the Russians at the moment. Though I'm sure Russian money and bots are involved in some way.
Russia started with the hybrid war psyops shit, they don't get to complain about false accusations.
For context: it's "Prinsjesdag" in the Netherlands which is when the budget is announced, and there are major changes to agriculture subsidies.
Otherwise you’re just going to continue being what is commonly called a “useful idiot”.
Edit: seeing your other posts, seems like you’re well beyond useful idiot territory and either a Russian agent or plain and simply a troll. Of course it’s always the ones you most expect.
Could it be Russia? Obviously. But in my opinion the odds are less than a coin flip.
Why derail trains though, especially in regards to the latter? Given it's one of the most environmental ways for transportation. Besides, groups like that tend to want to take responsibility, the whole point is to get attention to their groups.
Solovyov propaganda is pure nuclear revenge fantasy: https://youtu.be/dA4RP3uID6Q?is=ApmFQtgZvY7mWajP
https://www.propublica.org/article/donald-trump-jr-wedding-b...
Some local context: Today is "prinsjesdag" when the budget is announced. Protests are common, particularly when sensitive decisions are made. There are multiple organized protest movements in the country that have used physical force in the past and some of them had announced protests for today.
Could it be Russia? Yes. But local protests seem significantly more likely. Moreover, if I were Putin I wouldn't expose my foreign agents this physically. I would use them in much more insidious ways such as actually starting or supporting these protest movements. In a similar vein: Could any shooting in the US be caused by foreign agents? Maybe. But usually there is a much simpler explanation; guns and bitterness.
You are jumping to the assumption that foreign agents wouldn't be exposed, but any willing idiot can be bought to conduct such activity. Recent research in Denmark showed that sabotage comes, most likely, from locals, persuaded by foreign actors.
So two things could be true at once. A local 'protestor', disengaged through some issue (whether climate, farming or anything else), persuaded to join some 'resistance' by anyone.
I don't expect this to be supported by local protesting groups, like FDF or XR, either. Way too risky, media-wise.
https://www.rtvslo.si/crna-kronika/na-zelezniski-progi-iz-ce...
similar thing happened next to a minority area where they put railroad ties (the big wooden things, usually supporting the tracks) on the tracks themselves, and well, that even got politicized for the location reasons.
Humans are useful, easily manipulated operatives in the medium AIs are conversant in and we already have evidence of agents doing exactly this in arguing for PR requests (likely with prompting by an operator but still).
What one can do is provide accurate information on the one hand, and maybe flag the topic on the other.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Brilliant reply. Maybe if they stop attacking half of Europe, we'll stop thinking about them daily.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukrai...
Or here, where Russia just annexed parts of Europe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_war
Or perhaps one of the hundreds of instances in:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_sabotage_operations_in...
Or, what do you mean? Any non-state-propaganda supporting your claim?