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#syringes#injections#syringe#pakistan#needle#cost#disposable#more#https#patients
Discussion (94 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
It's not just this hospital, it's widespread ([1] report 38%)
[1] https://www.emro.who.int/emhj-volume-26-2020/volume-26-issue...
> An injection was provided during 53% of patient visits in Rawalpindi and 92% in Tando Allah Yar
> Patients from Tando Allah Yar reported a mean 3.8 visits to a healthcare provider by a member of their household during the previous month, compared to 2.5 by those from Rawalpindi (Table 2). During all such visits, an injection was given. Overall, 56% patients felt that an injection was necessary. Such perceptions were higher in Tando Allah Yar than in Rawalpindi (79% vs. 39%) (Table 2). Providers reciprocated such perceptions in that 44–56% of providers felt that an injection was required for common ailments such as fever, influenza, body aches or diarrhoea.
> Patients expect to receive injections for minor ailments such as fever or influenza-like symptoms and willingly pay for these, on the mistaken belief in the efficacy of injections to overcome common symptoms that eventually abate with time (10). Healthcare providers comply with such wishes and are convinced of the necessity of injections.
> We have previously demonstrated that the total national supply of syringes in Pakistan is sufficient to meet the demand for the ~1.1 billion syringes used annually for immunization, diabetes, laboratory testing and drug administration in clinics or hospitals
On the last point, I did a bit of a search to look for the total number of syringes used worldwide. I'm actually questioning whether that number is using similar methodology to arrive at the ~1.1 billion number, since I'm seeing numbers around 15 billion for the annual number of injections - meaning that Pakistan would be using over double the average per-capita number of syringes (and re-using many of them) while simultaneously having a population that's much younger (23 vs 31 median age) and poorer ($7k vs $26k median PPP/capita) than average.
If those numbers check out, the simple solution would just be to stop giving unnecessary injections, money would be saved, and there'd be no need to reuse syringes.
This seems like an excessive number of doctor visits, too. I can’t imagine a household where someone is going to the doctor almost every week. 45 doctor visits a year and they’re getting injections (of what?) most of the time?
My doctor’s office even has a big sign in the waiting room saying they don’t prescribe antibiotics for common infections.
The last time I got strep throat the urgent care clinic was resistant to testing me but finally gave in. When it came back positive the doctor acted oddly like he was reluctantly willing to prescribe antibiotics for it.
I had a horrible tooth infection that anyone with a nose could tell was a bacterial infection yet I was massively gaslit and denied antibiotics until I went to the hospital at 11pm after a week of horrendous pain
Doctors very rarely do any kind of test in my experience (I would have thought oozing stinking green stuff would have been easy to test...)
Later
I am somewhat against antibiotics as I have a fragile/already destroyed gut. But there are times when I don't know what other solution there is after exhausting home remedies, other medication and waiting it out
Do you mean "developing?" This is not common practice in rich Western countries.
Additionally, as sibling has already pointed out, sterile disposable syringes are extremely cheap.
That's 4 cents per syringe. Seems quite reasonable to me. Seems they don't have economics as an excuse.
https://ailaaj.pk/products/apple-disposable-syringe-5ml-100s
When people complain about healthcare costs, they're not complaining about things that cost the same as a cup of coffee locally.
It’s exactly the same way with contact lenses. When I was in college in the ’90s, I could get a pair of permanent contact lenses. They would cost a few hundred bucks, but they would last me several years if the prescription didn’t change. They were the same as glasses. You would clean them everyday and disinfect them, and they would serve quite well permanently.
But the contact lens industry decided that wasn’t good enough, and decided that they could sell subscription services for contact lenses that you would need to discard every night.
And those daily wear contact lenses, the disposable kind, basically forced out of the market the permanent ones and now the optometrist regards me as a Martian when I request permanent lenses instead.
And we had a big scandal locally. Were they doing a shoddy job of colonoscopies? Probably. But genetics left no doubt that they were using one needle per jab, but one syringe per patient. And drawing up from multi-use vials. Stick the hep C patient, in pulling back a bit ends up in the syringe. Discard needle, syringe is still infected. New needle, old syringe, draw from the vial again, vial is now infected.
So many products are bundled into purchase agreements at hospitals that you can't, in general, sensibly talk about per-unit costs.
That's driving the insistence on injections, and rural doctors/clinics cutting corners.
Sharia law, what could go wrong with these sets of rules, right? /s
This is the type of system where the design fails and effects of it are purely self inflicted by that society. It's pretty obvious that a population without education is easier to control, and that's the sole reason women still have no rights in those countries. It's just stupid when you need them to take care of your population's health then, huh?
Next door to other world leaders doing the same? Is that truly our motivation for not transferring the money? Some generals might illicitly buy houses?
> Until Pakistan cleans up its act
I'm sure "The Generals" are going to help there.
> giving it more loans it throwing good money after bad.
Abandoning them entirely as hostages is not acceptable.
Not gonna fix this with education if they won't admit to having a problem in the first place.
In the US your phlebotomist probably has a high school degree and a certification which required a few classes over one semester at a community college and passing an exam.
I doubt Pakistan has higher requirements than most US states do.
Too bad Elon got rid of it.
FTA
> Our investigation suggests that unsafe practices are in part driven by systemic pressures including a reliance on, and cultural preference for, injections as treatment.
> Pakistan has one of the highest rates of therapeutic injections in the world, many of them medically unnecessary. Members of the general public ask for them, including for their children, and doctors happily oblige, says Mir.
Stop making shit up
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-vacci...
https://www.cgdev.org/blog/white-house-bans-cia-use-vaccine-...
killing of vaccine workers:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10185917/
Not made up. Although I would understand why people might think it's crazy enough that it would be.
Does anyone have alternative archival sites? I want to switch away from archive.today because of the uncivil behavior [1] but can't find any other archival sites that can unpaywall websites.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/02/wikipedia-might-...
If you're not willing to do that, it's "uncivil" to pirate their content, wouldn't you say?
It includes the website, the live streaming BBC News TV channel, and a library of documentaries.
The cost of a new needle, syringe or new gloves is quite cheap.
The cost of an infection is high.
The cost of a HIV infection is life altering.
So, its clear that whoever did this thought that whatever small savings they obtained from not using a fresh syringe was more important to them than the high likelihood their patients would get infections, including HIV.