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#canada#toronto#alberta#central#country#here#city#part#lot#reason

Discussion (24 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

buescherabout 1 hour ago
I got a VIC-20 when I was about 12? Jim Butterfield loomed impossibly large over all things Commodore at that time. One of the first things I typed in on it was his TINYMON, a <1kbyte “monitor” (for some reason resident debuggers were frequently called monitors in early microcomputing) before I had any idea what it was.
reaperducer41 minutes ago
for some reason resident debuggers were frequently called monitors in early microcomputing

I think it's more like "for some reason, monitors are called debuggers in later microcomputing."

cf100clunkabout 1 hour ago
Sad that there is no mention or depiction of Canada's own magazine of that era, ''Electron''. It was commonly found alongside the big U.S. electronics periodicals like those shown here. Electron was a mainstay right up to the mid-1970s when it suddenly transitioned to ''Audio Scene Canada'', laden with glossy ads and a tight focus upon HiFi music products but no longer catering to the hobbyist or general electronics fields. I cancelled my subscription.
foofoo5524 minutes ago
For a close second here's a 1985 issue of the TPUG Magazine [1], from the Toronto PET Users Group. I attended a few meetings of the Niagara Commodore Users Group and spent all of my paper-route and fruit-picking income on arcade games and my C64 system.

[1] https://www.tpug.ca/tpug-media/tpugmag/TPUG_Issue_15_1985_Ju...

Yhippaabout 1 hour ago
I didn't grow up in Canada, but I miss these days where the universe of knowledge about computer tech and hardware wasn't impossibly large. It was possible to meet with people in meatspace and have real discussions with them. It's possible now, but it doesn't have the same vibe.
mewse-hnabout 2 hours ago
"We will examine this movement by looking at Toronto, the only city in Canada"
skeeter2020about 2 hours ago
If Canada historically has a complex around his relative relationship to the USA, the same holds outside of central Canada, maybe with the exception of pockets that punch above their weight in terms of representation (like PEI). This is both funny (TSN: Toronto Sports Network) and concerning (current AB and SK alienation). Personally I'm first a Canadian and second a proud Albertan, and find it maddening that like the British Empire treated it colony Canada, so does the country treats us, and the resulting brinksmanship is scary & dangerous.
mountain_peakabout 1 hour ago
> central Canada

This is part of the issue; the GTA is solidly in the east (the centre of Canada is in Manitoba), but when someone says, "eastern Canada", one automatically thinks "Nova Scotia", but Toronto is a relatively short drive from New York City. That being said, I understand that in most cases, "central" is referring to population, industry, finance (not fashion - that's Montrėal).

Regarding the site, the exhibit's producer, Zbigniew Stachniak, wrote an excellent book [0] on the world's first truly portable computer: the MCM/70 - which ran APL (yay!).

[0] https://www.mqup.ca/Books/I/Inventing-the-PC2

fidotron4 minutes ago
> That being said, I understand that in most cases, "central" is referring to population, industry, finance (not fashion - that's Montrėal).

And that shift of centrality from Montreal to Toronto was surprisingly recent too, very much post war.

Montreal, and Quebec, absolutely feel like a separate country from the rest.

b1129 minutes ago
It's referring to the fact that Ontario and Quebec were Upper and Lower Canada, and as the country grew, things to the "West" and "East" were seen in that light, even though it doesn't make sense centuries later.
cmrdporcupineabout 1 hour ago
Toronto is also a relatively short drive from Chicago. It's actually far more similar to Chicago than to coastal NYC.

It is really geographically "midwest" by US standards, not "east"

When I was in elementary school in Alberta in the 80s we called this "central Canada." And that's how I still think of it. But there's a growing trend especially in Alberta to call this "down east" which is in my mind a very political way of "othering" what is actually geographically quite central and economically and demographically as well.

patcon35 minutes ago
This is so true, but I've never heard it framed so clearly. Thank you!

As as Maritimer who moved to Toronto (but who came of age as an adult outside the Maritimes), your comment def wakes me up to the moral imperative of resisting the Toronto-centric framing in whatever ways I can

cmrdporcupineabout 1 hour ago
I dunno man. I grew up in Edmonton area and didn't much care about whatever in central Canada, and only had a vague sense of it despite having done a trip across Canada with the family when I was 8. Of course "western alienation" talk was all around from right wing sorts but my family paid no attention to it anyways.

Then I moved to Toronto in 1996 in the .com boom. I had spent plenty of time in Vancouver but living in Toronto was night and day in terms of vibrancy, culture, activity, economy. Toronto was a real living city and even Vancouver didn't compare. TLDR there's a reason why the country is in part Toronto centric. There's just a lot going on there. A lot of people, a lot of money, and a lot of culture. In the 90s especially it really was "downtown Canada." That would have been even more so in the period this article is talking about. It has nothing to do with Toronto people thinking they're superior, it has to do with the fact that this is the 3rd or 4th (depending how you count it) largest city in North America and nothing else in Canada even comes close.

I have lived both sides and most of my family is still in Alberta. The persecution complex out there is 100% bullshit. Nobody in reality is treating Alberta badly. It actually gets a remarkably good deal in confederation -- selling oil and gas to the rest of the country. Hydrocarbons aren't the centre of existence. Even after all these years of neglect and downgrading the manufacturing economies of central Canada are still a massive part of the GDP of the country, and the industrial policies that apply for them are not necessarily the same as for energy or forestry exports and that needs to be recognized.

Not to mention that this part of the world is where the bulk of the population still is. Yet I hear people in Alberta routinely talk about how they're somehow holding the whole country up. It's not factually correct. Not even close, unless you play wilful distortion of how equalization works.

Also, we are some of the the biggest customers of Alberta, Line 9 runs right behind my farm. 90% of the oil used here in Ontario is purchased via that line from Alberta, pumped from Edmonton. I also fail to see recognition of this from many pundits in Alberta. Even Harper was spreading misinformation about "Saudi oil tankers coming up the St Lawrence" -- that's just bullshit. The only part of our country that uses middle eastern imports is Atlantic Canada, for obvious reasons.

I don't see it as colonial at all. I think certain people got very aggressive when necessary moves were made around climate regulation. As a person who lived half their live in Alberta, and half their life here... I just think those people are wrong. a) It's wrong for Alberta to be so dependent on hydrocarbons and it needs to diversify b) Climate change is real and Alberta's exports play a significant role in that.

There is a lot of ... motivated ... disinformation spread by various actors in Alberta. People should be skeptical.

cf100clunk43 minutes ago
I acknowledge your perspective, fair enough, but it seems focused on the present. Western alienation goes far, far back, predating Confederation. The golden age of the Atlantic provinces goes back to a period hundreds of years ago, too. I'm just pointing out from a historical view that the cultural effect of so much power and influence being centred in Toronto and Montreal had, and continues to have, a large influence on Canadians, going back many, many generations. Some grind axes, others shrug, some stand up and shout "Excuse me, we've been here all along too, what about us?" I remain positive and upbeat that we'll sort it all out together.
harwoodr19 minutes ago
I've lived my entire life just "down the road" from Toronto in Canada's 10th largest city. Always in the shadow of Toronto and the butt of many jokes.

Back when I worked in Toronto, people would always ask when I'd be moving there - because why would you want to live anywhere else?

I also remember, circa 2000, when the marketing people at the company I worked at were talking about advertising - they didn't see the point of spending on advertising outside of Toronto.

It's a very different mindset, that's for sure.

Waterluvianabout 2 hours ago
Can confirm. I live in a small farming hamlet with a population of about 42,000 one hour outside Toronto and Canada Revenue Agency considers me "rural Canada" for tax purposes.
cf100clunkabout 1 hour ago
Had the title and focus been on ''Ontario'' or ''Toronto'', all would have been better.
armanjabout 2 hours ago
I'm in Toronto and I can confirm.
dhosekabout 2 hours ago
Well, it is the capital (/s).