Back to News
Advertisement
Advertisement

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

63% Positive

Analyzed from 3029 words in the discussion.

Trending Topics

#cycling#bike#more#cyclists#cars#don#car#road#driving#ride

Discussion (65 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

ervineabout 4 hours ago
My love of cycling in every form is one of the greatest gifts my dad gave to me. I wish everyone was so lucky to find an activity they were obsessed with that has only upsides.

So much North American rhetoric is focused on hatred of the cyclist - while that bums me out, what bums me out even more is that all the haters are missing out on the wonderful world of cycling. Commuter, road, gravel, mountain, track, indoor, fixed, single speed, folding, electric, uni, cargo, whatever.

I'm gonna go ride now.

matsemannabout 2 hours ago
Yeah, so weird how biking has become an identity politics thingy. (Not sure if it translates well into English).

I enjoy how it's fast and easy to commute, and I keep healthy. Works even in hilly and snowy Norway. I love how fun it is to use my road bike to go fast and get a good workout. I love my gravel into the woods and the serenity.

This weekend I'm bikepacking 6 hours into the woods,sleeping a night in a hammock, and bike back. Can't wait!

__mharrison__about 3 hours ago
Recumbent...
ervineabout 3 hours ago
Nah, they’re freaks.
bluebarbetabout 1 hour ago
But unbelievably ergonomic. A decade ago I rented one to do a week's touring (in France and Switzerland). On a standard bike the first two days of such outings were invariably spoiled by sore butt and shoulders. On the recumbent I knocked off 80km on the first day with not the slightest ache. A total revelation.
mmoossabout 2 hours ago
> So much North American rhetoric is focused on hatred of the cyclist

My impression is that only people in the bicycling social world believe that. It seems like a victim mentality that they reinforce by repeating it to each other. It's always possible I just haven't seen it, but localities around the country are building bicycling infrastructure, which doesn't correspond to hatred. Where do you see it?

I hardly ever hear someone expressing hatred of cyclists. People who ride obviously like it. The great majority don't care about it - it has little impact on their lives. In cities, on streets I see people honk at, yell at, and flip off cyclists just like they honk, flip off, and yell at other drivers. IME the cyclists generally 'drive' as well/poorly as the automobile drivers.

I do notice that people in spandex racing outfits on road bikes tend to behave with attitude problems toward everyone - pedestrians, non-racing cyclists, cars, etc. They are aggressive and fly by people, often with little margin, at dangerous speeds without warning. It's as if they think they own the road. I was just talking to a bike mechanic I know who brought it up. If people don't like them, it's obvious why.

impendiaabout 1 hour ago
Some drivers seem to resent the idea that they should have to share the road, or slow down for anyone. Even if cyclists do everything right, they're still slower than cars, and so will present at least a minor inconvenience for drivers.

In Canada the fight has gotten nasty, with governments in Alberta and Ontario putting forward legislation that could remove existing bike lanes.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-ford-bike-lan...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-government-b...

Maybe "hatred" is too strong of a word, but if I were a cyclist in Toronto or Edmonton I'd feel rather victimized.

mmoossabout 1 hour ago
While I think cycling is great - environmentally, for health, apparently for mental health - bikes and cars don't mix unless they are going approx. the same speed in 1-2 lanes.

Driving a car, bicycles are hard to see - I wouldn't be surprised if visibility in cars is specified to be sufficient to see other cars. Bicycles appear out of nowhere and disappear. Also, cyclists - no better or worse than their automobile counterparts - don't always drive well, and they do things that cars don't such as weaving through small spaces between cars; running lights as if they are pedestrians, but on the road; appearing from sidewalks and other places - really anyplace. I don't object to creative driving - as I said, (city) drivers aren't much different in their way - but it makes bikes unpredictable and hard to see. Then there's the speed difference - bikes much slower than traffic are as dangerous as cars driving that speed (again, except I can see the cars). As long as there's one lane - and if cyclists 'own the lane' and don't let cars squeeze by - it's safe: you can see the bike; multiple lanes and the bike ends up in blind spots, weaving back and forth itself, etc.

I read that in (Belgium? The Netherlands?) the law is that if there is a small (10 km/h?) difference in speed between cars and bikes, they cannot share the road.

rcxdude19 minutes ago
As a general rule, with this kind of thing, if you're not in a group that's targeted by such comments, you are probably not going to see those comments. Even if the majority don't care, it only takes a small hateful minority to create a lot of hate aimed at a given group.
sl_convertibleabout 1 hour ago
We just had a death on the road, from a driver hitting a cyclist in a group. I'm a life-long cyclists, and I now am somewhat fearful about cycling on the road. I see so many groups that take an entire lane and not even care about the cars behind them - it's easy to understand the frustration of the drivers. It's a knotty problem, I wish we had more bicycle lanes.
DangitBobbyabout 1 hour ago
Obviously I wasn't there for the "taking the lane" circumstances you've seen, but where I live there are very few sections of road where it would be safe for a vehicle to attempt to occupy the lane while a group of cyclists are in it, and cars should be overtaking instead. It's no more difficult for a car to overtake when the cyclists are "taking the lane."
hoherdabout 1 hour ago
I'm sure lots of cyclists have anecdata about that hatred. My personal favorite was somebody in a Santa Clara neighborhood a block from the DMV shouting at me to "get off the f***ing road!" Clearly they didn't read the part of the DMV manual that mentions that bicycles must "not ride on the sidewalk"[1], and missed that cyclists are allowed full use of the lane.

I now live in rural suburban Michigan, and even on these rural backroads I have jerks in trucks yelling at me on my e-bike going 20+ mph to "get out of the f***ing way".

Maybe those people do not represent the majority, but it feels like they do, and those actions feel threatening when coming from a multi-ton vehicle directed at a 75 pound vehicle. (Fat-bike ebikes are heavy.) It's also odd to experience this on a rural road on a lake shoreline because isn't the countryside supposed to be slow paced?

1. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-han...

DangitBobbyabout 1 hour ago
My personal favorite was someone shouting "go back to California!" our their window. I'm a TN native born and raised.

Second favorite was, a truck did an illegal pass maneuver around me on a blind turn (another 15s and we'd be around the curve) and almost hit another truck head on, then raced off. The driver of the truck that almost got hit rolled down his window and asked me "do you really have to ride here?"

DangitBobbyabout 1 hour ago
You clearly haven't spent much time on YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, FaceBook, or really anywhere there is a huge community. Americans fucking HATE cyclists.

> The great majority don't care about it

My own dad will take any opportunity to actively bitch about perceived annoyances perpetrated by cyclists and opine about how useless bike lanes are expensive and not actually productive because people only use them for exercise. Why don't you try actually bringing up cyclists and bike lanes somewhere, especially in the south, and then you tell me what people think.

Fricken33 minutes ago
Drivers mostly hate on other drivers, but they make time to hate other road users as well.
mmoossabout 1 hour ago
> Americans fucking HATE cyclists.

I haven't met those Americans, somehow. Maybe it's just more social media nonsense - people joining the mob fun and far overestimating the loud voices?

ervineabout 1 hour ago
None of this has been my experience.
geophphabout 4 hours ago
Certainly has a huge impact on my own mental health. My commute options are bike (2hr total pretty much without fail) or drive (on average 1:15 total) and even though the 45 min cost is not nothing, I know I’m happier, more pleasant and have less migraines when I commute more steadily by bike than drive. Doesn’t even matter about weather. I really appreciate my time on the bike to get some exercise, be outside, and just generally not be in a car.
tim333about 2 hours ago
I've kind of gone from regular biking to an ebike and it's still fun and gives exercise but gets me there often quicker than by car.
recursivecaveatabout 3 hours ago
If it saves time that you would otherwise spend deliberately exercising the comparison can be quite favorable really. +45m of commute but 120m of exercise 'saved'.
pjs_about 3 hours ago
Being able to cycle to and from work across a nice university campus, through fields and trees and in good weather, makes me feel as rich as any human who has ever lived
soramimoabout 1 hour ago
I've been biking to work in Los Angeles for ten years and it's surely been one of my best life hacks ever (to the point where access to biking infrastructure has been a primary consideration when buying my house).
mmoossabout 1 hour ago
I know a bike mechanic who commutes by bicycle (of course) in a city. I brought up bike infrastructure and they said they don't need much: side streets that are too slow for cars going any distance are perfect 'bike lanes' - either there are no cars or it's one lane of slow cars and the bike fits in fine. All they need to do is figure out a route, but usually they can find their way the first time without a map.

LA is notoriously car-oriented, but is it different in that respect?

Gigachad21 minutes ago
Side streets are often designed specifically to make thru traffic difficult. They have dead ends, weird routes, etc.

But yeah, when you can find an empty/slow side street it’s hundreds of times better than a bike lane right next to high speed traffic and cars cutting you off.

elevationabout 3 hours ago
> Being able to cycle to and from work across a nice university campus, through fields and trees and in good weather, makes me feel as rich as any human who has ever lived

Just wait til you try it with a 7 year old who adores you and just can't wait to go biking again. Or with a 12 year old, just chatting about life's paths. What a blessing.

testing22321about 2 hours ago
I currently ride my 2.5 year old 5km to and from daycare every day. Mountain town, glacier in the distance, lake in foreground, tons of leaves and flowers now.

Paradise.

scottiousabout 4 hours ago
Cycling is great for many reasons, but I feel that the biggest boost to my well-being was giving up driving.
thewebguydabout 3 hours ago
I'm a firm believer in cars ruin cities.

Cycling is great. I ride both for sport/fitness and for errands, has a ton of benefits, but I agree with you that the biggest boost is not driving.

Car culture/motonormativity in the US is a huge problem and transit here is severely lacking, cycling infrastructure or other wise (trains, busses, safe pedestrian paths and areas, trams, etc.).

People point to traffic and stress, but there are overlooked harms of car culture we tend to ignore. It's responsible for a significant portion of emissions, and drivers and those near cars inhale a staggering amount of microplastics.

Those who use public transit are less likely to be overweight, less likely to devlop type 2 diabetes, and less likely to have high blood pressure.

Driving needs to stop being an unavoidable default. EVs and self driving aren't the answer either, all the same problems, except exhaust, are present with EVs.

scottiousabout 3 hours ago
I agree. This is one reason why I want gas prices to go to $10/gallon. It will hurt, but maybe we'll start having some serious conversations about our awful transportation system and city design
boelboelabout 2 hours ago
Sadly commuters are the least price sensitive, any gas price which would be enough to convince people to stop using gas would justify buying an electric car. There's also not really an alternative in most American cities as the density prevents public transport.
nickservabout 2 hours ago
That's what how we got fuel economy regulations in the 1970s. But it didn't really usher in a golden age of public transport. Probably would just help Tesla and BYD.
KennyBlankenabout 2 hours ago
It'd also be nice because cyclist deaths in the US closely mirror gas prices. When gas prices drop, people drive more, and injure/kill more cyclists.
jbmchuckabout 3 hours ago
Absolutely. The US' urban density problems, housing cost crisis - they all go back to car-based society.
scott_wabout 2 hours ago
While I haven't given up driving, the fact that I don't rely on it to commute (granted I work from home rather than cycling) means that when I do drive, my relative frustration is really low. About the only thing that annoys me is dangerous driving... for obvious reasons!
nickservabout 2 hours ago
Same situation, working from home, although my city has decent public transport so even going downtown is easier without driving. But now when I need to drive for whatever reason, I get frustrated at having to drive. I'll complain about having to take the car, that why can't they put a bus route here, why is it the train doesn't stop at the station I need etc etc.

Which actually surprised me, when my SO said to me: but I thought you liked driving? When we first met you were always working on your car...

Oh yeah. I did, didn't I? It just kinda happened without me realizing it.

__mharrison__about 3 hours ago
Biking is great. Find an excuse to do it. Two that have worked for me: Commuting and coaching the HS mountain bike team.
sourcecodeplzabout 3 hours ago
From what I've read from this study it seems that constant cycling it what helps most, not just from time to time.
hrjrnfjfjrjabout 2 hours ago
I gave up cycling for being too stressful. Every dog thinks cyclists are some sort of toy, to chase and bite. And using pepper spray 3 times a day gets old very fast.
UtopiaPunkabout 1 hour ago
You should report that to animal control. In most cities, dogs are not allowed to be running loose off leash and "at large." If they are bothering people, it's clearly an infraction.
shipman05about 2 hours ago
Such an interesting comment. I've commuted 1+ hours per day via bicycle for years and never once had a dog encounter. 3 per day is wild.
Frickenabout 2 hours ago
The first summer after COVID I was bitten by 3 different dogs in 3 separate incidents. I went 48 years without ever getting bitten by a dog until that one season.
nickservabout 2 hours ago
Wow you live surrounded by idiots. The dog owners, not the dogs, of course.
dhjfififfiirjfabout 1 hour ago
Right, except most dog owners are miles away, or dog has no owner.

And any animal this eats its own poop is idiot.

idontwantthisabout 1 hour ago
Do you live in rural India?
davidwabout 2 hours ago
I'll add to the love for bicycles. I wrote this a while back about how bicycles are, for me, a "thinking machine": https://journal.dedasys.com/2015/04/20/the-bicycle-a-thinkin...
mattlondonabout 3 hours ago
Is this impact above and beyond just the same amount of physical exercise? E.g. jogging?

I think at this stage it is well understood that physical exercise has all these positives, so it would be interesting to know if anyone knows if bicycling is even better, or if it's just more of the same?

Is cycling special I guess .... Like, I dunno using a pogo stick might have the same benefit as cycling, since it's all just physical activity at the end of the day?

thewebguydabout 3 hours ago
There's a few things unique/special to cycling. Injury prevention is a big one, especially vs. running. Cycling is non-weight bearing and avoids repetitive loading and joint impact. (runners average 11 injuries per 1,000 hours vs. cycling's 6 injuries per 1,000 hours).

Because of that though you can ride for much longer durations comfortably than any other high-impact activity so cycling lets you have a much higher total volume of work and greater calorie expenditure without overtraining.

cschepabout 2 hours ago
this also means that more cafes are easily within reach of a cycle, where a jog can't quite get you there. plus cycling after a huge sandwich and a coffee is a lot easier than running :)
mmoossabout 1 hour ago
> runners average 11 injuries per 1,000 hours vs. cycling's 6 injuries per 1,000 hours

Do you remember the source(s)? I'm hoping to read more about those and other activities.

> Cycling is non-weight bearing and avoids repetitive loading and joint impact.

Sure. I've also seen at least one study [0] that says the lack of weight-bearing means cyclists don't build bone strength and are more prone to fractures. I wonder if just riding in higher gears addresses that.

> Because of that though you can ride for much longer durations comfortably than any other high-impact activity so cycling lets you have a much higher total volume of work and greater calorie expenditure without overtraining.

Doesn't that also make it less efficient? Running seems to provide more exercise/hour. Again, maybe higher gears would solve that problem.

[0] Sorry, I don't remember the source but I discovered it while looking for something else on, I think, PubMed.

thewebguydabout 1 hour ago
Running injuries: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1439399/

The studies were sport specific, so I'm not sure where to find specifics on other activities too but I'm sure there's data out there for other sports.

> that says the lack of weight-bearing means cyclists don't build bone strength and are more prone to fractures

This is true, especially as you get older, and riding in harder gears don't really help either. There is more torque being applied, but its still a smooth, continuous force there's no impact traveling through to stimulate bone density. You need high magnitude, short duration forces (3x+ body weight) to stimulate that.

By far the most effective way is weightlifting/strength training, which IMO everyone should do, at least 1x or 2x/week. Even runners will benefit from strength training, it's necessary for injury prevention.

> Doesn't that also make it less efficient? Running seems to provide more exercise/hour. Again, maybe higher gears would solve that problem.

Running will get you a higher total energy expenditure, yes. A 45 minute run will be more strain than a 45 minute casual bike ride.

The big difference is total weekly volume. With running, because its such high impact, you have a limit on the weekly volume you can hit before you get an injury or start overtraining. About 5 to 10 hours/week for recreational runners.

A cyclist can sustain 15-20+ hours/week of training volume before you run into the same overtraining or overuse risks.

Cycling is technically less time-efficient on an hour by hour basis, but it does allow for significantly more total weekly volume and absolute calorie burn without overtraining stress or injury.

Gearing doesn't really change the formula at all. Gearing changes which system is being used cardio vs. muscular fatigue. If you shift into a harder gear, but your cadence drops proportionally, your power output remains identical. But mashing (a lower cadence) a harder gear changes from using your slow-twitch muscle fibers to fast-twitch fibers. You'll fatigue faster, and burn out well before you hit the time needed for good cardiovascular stimulus. Gearing isn't used to make the ride harder or easier, it's used to maintain your cadence in a specific power band (e.g., 85rpm @ 200W) like the transmission in a car.

chickensongabout 1 hour ago
Cycling is special IMHO. It can be strenuous exercise like running, or a casual cruise that's even easier than walking. The speed is highly adjustable and easy to get in the sweet spot for that moment. It's not too slow to get bored, and not too fast to miss out on your environment.

Bikes are also a wonderful expression of physics, and the effect of centrifugal force is a key reason why cycling is special. The property of increasing stability with speed is amazing. Leaning not steering is also wonderful. The flow state you can achieve on a bicycle is unreal. Mind, body, and your physical environment in unison.

There's a mechanical beauty as well, that's easy to understand, but with plenty of depth to dig into and enjoy. Wheels and gear ratios are some of humanity's greatest achievements, and you get to pair that with interesting geometry and materials that have a direct impact on your experience. The difference between riding a junker that's not right for your body and a nice/fitted bike, is like the difference between wearing a burlap sack and a tailored suit.

Physical exercise is good, but bikes are much more than just a means to stay fit and produce endorphins. I wish everyone would bike more. Truly one of life's great joys.

thewebguydabout 1 hour ago
> Bikes are also a wonderful expression of physics

And efficiency! A human on a bicycle is more efficient than any other vehicle or animal. If we ran on gasoline, a cyclist would get the equivalent of roughly 1,000 miles per gallon. A well maintained bike drivetrain can reach 98% efficiency. Compare that to an ICE car which loses up to 70% of its energy to heat and friction.

ervineabout 2 hours ago
Not scientific but I enjoy actually going somewhere. Jogging you can get to places in your neighborhood, but cycling I can get to places in my region.

That’s why I get on the bike, you’re moving through areas slowly enough to enjoy them but quickly enough to really take in a lot.

scott_wabout 2 hours ago
> Not scientific but I enjoy actually going somewhere. Jogging you can get to places in your neighborhood, but cycling I can get to places in my region.

You just reminded me of my holiday to Biarritz in April where my wife received a text: "Should be back in about an hour or so, I'm just riding back from Spain."

t_mahmoodabout 2 hours ago
Addition to what others have said, it's also therapeutic. Like exploring new places, the feeling/sounds. It's not detached from the environment, like it is in the car, nor it is too loud like it is on the motorbikes. It's not too fast, nor to slow to enjoy the surroundings. And, the sound of the hubs, wheels can feel peaceful even.

In my case, my city is disgustingly depressing. But after I started riding, I realized the city had so much greenery around it. And no car or motorbike could access it. Riding down the village roads, between the trees, that you can not access by a motor vehicle, or walking, is an amazing experience. And, it does not damage the environment, nor ruins the peace with loud noise.

g8ozabout 2 hours ago
I like to see a study of impacts on well-being comparing cycling versus walking.
everdriveabout 3 hours ago
Is the increased risk of testicular cancer simply built in, or can it be avoided?
robotswantdataabout 3 hours ago
Don’t do PEDs
phoronixrlyabout 3 hours ago
Are you riding 8 hours a day every day? No? Get a well-fitting seat that doesn't make your balls go numb and you'll be fine.

(AFAIK link between cycling and TC is inconclusive, link papers if you know otherwise)

ervineabout 3 hours ago
I think it’s just a Lance joke - cycling has no correlation with TC.
handednessabout 2 hours ago
Perhaps TC increases cycling rates!
tokaiabout 3 hours ago
There is no consensus that cycling increases the risk of testicular cancer.

see page 6: https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1186/s12885-018-409...

Advertisement