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#civilization#more#earth#land#https#water#fire#species#don#intelligence

Discussion (42 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

thangalinabout 3 hours ago
My Impacts project depicts a scene from the prolonged bombardment, a time when Earth was cratered by asteroids and comets:

* https://impacts.to/downloads/lowres/impacts.pdf#page=9

* https://impacts.to/bibliography.pdf

oneneptuneabout 3 hours ago
Wow what an awesome art piece by Ada Zejun Shen that they commissioned(?) for this article!
burkamanabout 2 hours ago
Their portfolio is beautiful https://adazshen.com/
opticfluorineabout 1 hour ago
Wow, what a portfolio! This one in particular caught my eye: https://adazshen.com/Viral-Placenta

I have little artistic ability myself, but I am continuously in awe of what artists create. It makes me hope for the optimistic outlook of AI where UBI frees people to pursue creative and intellectual pursuits, rather than constantly trying to push a stock price uphill.

iknowstuffabout 2 hours ago
I thought it was ai generated lol
dylan604about 2 hours ago
even when websites provide attribution for images, people don't read them
martzy13about 1 hour ago
So the theory explained here is that Hydrogen mixed with the Oxygen in the melted rock (magma) of earth, under extremely high pressure to create our earth specific flavor of H2O (appropriate amount of trace minerals and deuterium).

Am I reading that correctly?

Link to the paper mentioned in the article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-09630-7

lightedman25 minutes ago
Correct, and we can demonstrate this via various gem-bearing and REE-bearing pegmatites which almost universally contain magmatic-sourced water trapped within them.
module197338 minutes ago
Earth made water.. right.. and a big explosion made the earth? How stupid do you think we all are?
jdw64about 3 hours ago
Life began in the Ocean, but why did civilization begin on land? Is it because of fire? But I wonder if a different kind of civilization could have emerged
vitally3643about 2 hours ago
That's one theory, yes. Cooking food (with fire) makes more calories available, meaning less hunting required to support more individuals, and/or freeing up more time and calories for thinking. This allowed us to evolve bigger and more complex brains.

While it's not a given that fire is a hard prerequisite for an industrial civilization, it certainly accelerated our technological development. Fact of the matter is, we know of exactly one civilization, which is not enough to draw any conclusions. There's no real reason we know of that aquatic species cannot evolve into a technological civilization, we just haven't seen it happen. Fact is we don't really know how an intelligent technological species evolves. We only have guesses from our own history.

aurareturnabout 2 hours ago
Fire, agriculture, electricity, AI.

Rank these inventions in terms of importance to humanity.

vitally3643about 1 hour ago
That's the fun thing, since we have only observed a single advanced civilization, and that one only indirectly through archaeological evidence, there's no hard facts to be had! We can only make guesses. We don't know what is and is not required to make an advanced technological species, and we won't have any answers until we meet another one to compare with.
aozameabout 1 hour ago
AI is not important at all. Just make things more convenient, but is completely unnecessary.
anonymousiamabout 1 hour ago
It looks like you've already done so with the order of the sequence that you used.
cmrdporcupineabout 1 hour ago
Arguably they're all fire -- requiring/involving forms of combustion.

(Well, debatable about agriculture, slash'n'burn wasn't the only form of it, but it was common for land clearing at least... all we have now is one that involves combustion engines, though...)

vkouabout 1 hour ago
Nuclear weapons and the control structure around their use and fossil fuels and the C-corporation and what it optimizes for will probably turn out to be more important to the long-term future of humanity and it's civilization.
smilesprayabout 2 hours ago
And a sample size of one.
vitally3643about 2 hours ago
That's what I said, yes.
nobodyandproudabout 2 hours ago
We have counter examples of human pods that never really achieved “civilization”.

What’s missing that make them more akin to orcas or wolves?

Calavarabout 2 hours ago
Brains are resource hungry, especially oxygen hungry. Earth's air is orders of magnitude richer in oxygen molecules than its water. This likely made it easier for intelligence to develop on land. It's worth noting that the smartest aquatic animals are air breathing mammals that spent much of their evolutionary history on land before returning to water.
onlypassingthruabout 2 hours ago
When did octopuses start breathing air?
Calavarabout 2 hours ago
Octopuses are smart, but I've yet to see anything that suggests they are smarter than dolphins or whales.
HarHarVeryFunny12 minutes ago
1) Land has more diverse and rapidly changing environments, creating generalists, creating advanced intelligence

2) Civilization requires hands, but in water fins and flippers are more useful

3) Sure, it could have worked out differently, but here we are

ekelsenabout 2 hours ago
Interesting to think what could be if cephalopods raised their young instead of leaving them to completely fend for themselves. It would start intergenerational knowledge transfer, i.e. culture. Maybe selection pressure then trends towards group cooperation instead of going it solo.

I still think there would be huge barriers to "civilization" as I think you mean? (Do any of the apes have "civilization"?).

fhdkweigabout 1 hour ago
The real problem with cephalopods is their lifespan. For their age, they are almost as smart as humans, the problem is that they don't live past the age of 5 years.
sarkhanabout 2 hours ago
Orcas do this already.

I mean there might be a already a civilization that is in the building that will peak 100k years later, and we just don't know about it.

ekelsenabout 1 hour ago
having arms is probably an advantage in developing tool-use, but who knows!
zahlmanabout 2 hours ago
Physically manipulating objects is a lot harder underwater, even if you somehow evolve fine motor control despite not having any real use for it. So that severely limits what an intelligent aquatic species could actually do with that intelligence. Aside from fire you're missing the wheel, a writing system and many other things.
card_zeroabout 2 hours ago
Being immersed in solvent can't help with things like graphic arts and pottery.
layer8about 1 hour ago
One hypothesis is that the brain began too look (and eventually plan) farther ahead with land animals, because you have a much farther view in air than in water. On land there is more evolutionary pressure to change one’s behavior regarding animals farther away that you see and that can see you, to predict their behavior and plan one’s own behavior within a larger time horizon.
TheBigSaladabout 2 hours ago
You're talking about a thing that happened for 1 species for such a small period of Earth's history to be just a blip. There's not enough data to draw a conclusion here.
nobodyandproudabout 2 hours ago
Humans are one of a handful species equipped to change their immediate environment to suit their needs, across virtually every environment, and introduce stability.

Beyond that…

Being able to have down time seems like a prerequisite to creating. civilization.

Also, having both the intelligence and desire to seem and recognize ways to improve—even if not strictly necessary—via tools to free up even more time also seems to be a requirement.

And having a system to reliably and in-scale transmit this knowledge is the final ingredient.

So some baseline stability, down-time, intelligence, reliable knowledge transmission, tool-use for the above, and active willingness to improve all of the above all seem like necessary ingredients.

ck2about 1 hour ago
Maybe some of Earth's oceans came from its rings collapsing (not kidding)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPhwhq-f1Uo

doublerabbitabout 1 hour ago
200 years from now on HN.

"Where Did Earth Get Its Deserts? Maybe It's Ai, Datacentres and Climate Change"