Back to News
Advertisement
Advertisement

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

82% Positive

Analyzed from 1247 words in the discussion.

Trending Topics

#spider#ant#species#caterpillar#web#energy#thing#highly#before#prey

Discussion (28 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

NitpickLawyerabout 2 hours ago
Heh, for a second there this read like some of the Portiid adventures with Bianca and Fabian from Adrian Tchaikovsky's book "Children of time". If you find this kind of thing interesting and are a fan of sci-fi, I highly recommend the book.
Foskyaabout 4 hours ago
It is truly fascinating, I wonder how it evolved like that. Before becoming a spring as it is today how was it hunting in the past? What constraints made it need such a mechanism instead of a typical web?
sethammonsabout 3 hours ago
Amazing specialization. I was wondering the same thing. Cave glow worms cast a "fishing line," and this is similar-ish. I wonder if N million years ago, a couple of fishing-line-like spiders started anchoring their lines, and the ones with a more conic shape anchor may led to more success over time. And the anchor may have only worked on territorial prey. Fun stuff to imagine.
jcimsabout 3 hours ago
Just saw glow worms for the first time last month. Very cool critters. Not sure I even knew they existed before that.
throwup238about 2 hours ago
Me too! I was visiting my parents’ farm and walking around in pitch black while looking at the stars when I saw a bright green glow out of the corner of my eye. Ended up tracking it down to a California pink glow worm that had perched itself on a rock.
pvaldesabout 3 hours ago
Injured Himenoptera are known to send pheromones that trigger a vicious defensive response from other members of the colony. On a typical web the companion ants would do what the ants do. Go to war and flood the place surrounding the danger until eventually killing it. The spider does not have neither the stamina, nor the venom amount to deal with that. This web is designed to extract just one ant, while cutting the path that the ant rescuers could follow.

This is the first spider web known designed to catch only one species of prey. That alone would make the finding extraordinary. The trap can lure only green ants and serve the food exactly were the spider wants it; granting access to a common source of food that is everywhere, but also that is very dangerous to hunt (as much big as the spider, with powerful jaws, and much stronger).

The video shows one most interesting thing: Notice that the spider is carefully moving out of the way, just a second before the ant is launched. The spider knows in advance that its current location is about to be hit by a bungee jumping ant, and acts accordingly just in time to avoid the "bullet". We can easily imagine the spider thinking 5,4,3... This means that spider brains can predict the future outcome of a complex movement of objects in the physical system of its trap, and also calculate how much time the fibers will resist the jaw of the ant.

sethammonsabout 3 hours ago
The smart spider is portia, a jumping spider. A quick search uncovers zounds of videos, articles, and scientific publications on them.

They specialize is hunting spiders, changing hunting tactics based on type and number of prey. Yes, they count. They strategize. They make multi-step plans that take them out of sight of prey. And some people keep them as pets.

chrisweeklyabout 1 hour ago
Yes! I learned about them reading Adrian Tchaikovsky's excellent scifi book "Children of Time".
addandsubtractabout 1 hour ago
> Notice that the spider is carefully moving out of the way, just a second before the ant is launched.

It's not moving before the ant is launched. It's moving as soon as the tension in the web is gone, ie. there's movement in their web. Most spiders react to movement in their web.

wazooxabout 2 hours ago
There are many such mysterious mysteries in evolution. Some wasps paralyse a caterpillar of a particular species by stinging it very precisely in its nervous centres, then carries the caterpillar into the nest it previously dug out, lay its egg on the caterpillar then close the hole to never come back.

This is a completely automatic, unintelligent behaviour; if you remove the paralysed caterpillar at any point in the process the wasp simply goes on with its business (it will close its nest without any caterpillar inside, where the larva will die out from lack of food).

In the late 19th century, Jean-Henri Fabre studied these wasps (and many other strange insects) and had a copious correspondence with Charles Darwin on this very matter. His books are absolutely fascinating (ditto the letters Darwin and him exchanged).

felix-the-catabout 2 hours ago
The weirdest insects I've seen in real life are these ones called Burying Beetles - they have chemoreceptors that allow them to detect the odor of a dead mouse from as far away as two miles. Then a male and female fly to it, dig a big hole, strip all the fur off of it to line the hole, then drag it down in there and raise their young together. They are also unusual in that outside of bees and ants, very few insects raise their young together from infancy to adulthood.
sejjeabout 1 hour ago
> lay its egg on the caterpillar

> it will close its nest without any caterpillar inside, where the larva will die out from lack of food

...wouldn't the larva be with the caterpillar? You said that's where it lays the eggs.

matheusmoreiraabout 4 hours ago
I wonder why biological organisms are capable of such absurdly high accelerations. Article reminded me of cnidocytes which apparently produce anywhere between 40,000 and 5,410,000 g. Is it because of the small masses involved?
ajucabout 4 hours ago
Strength of fibers scales with crossection area, mass scales with volume.
pvaldesabout 3 hours ago
If they would prove that the trap also breaks the ant neck, saving venom, or stunning the prey for easy kill, that would be incredible. Somebody needs to include this thing in the script of a science fiction film.
euroderfabout 1 hour ago
> Somebody needs to include this thing in the script of a science fiction film.

"The Fly" is ready for a quick rewrite.

kipropingabout 3 hours ago
The videos are amazing. Sadly I think theses types of adaptations make it easier for the species to go extinct since its so highly specialized.
gyanchawdharyabout 3 hours ago
>theses types of adaptations make it easier for the species to go extinct since its so highly specialized.

super interesting. I'm guessing because being highly dependent on a single tactic can make it difficult to adapt or course change ?

soulofmischiefabout 3 hours ago
As a general rule of dynamical systems, specialization is essentially the exploitation of regularity within your environment.

A highly regular environment can allow for extreme specialization because a system can predict and "expect" certain situations. This leads to much less energy expended, since maintaining stability requires energy that scales with the turbulence of a system.

If gravity is always down, you don't need to spend energy on organs that overcome gravity in other directions. Your circulatory system can use gravity to its advantage; that's why you can't just remain upside down, there's no effective mechanism to pump blood out of your brain.

If a car passes a street exactly every 2 minutes, you don't need to spend lots of time and energy figuring out when to cross. You know once a car crosses, you're good for 2 minutes. If you know the sun comes up around the same time every day, you can allow yourself a deep sleep during the night if you're in a safe place, or bloom only during the day.

Nature exploits such regularities in order to reduce the energy needed to maintain an organism or group, which creates specialization, whether on the scale of the group, on the scale of the individual, etc. This is hierarchical; your cells specialize, your organs specialize, you get training or education to specialize your skills, etc. For example, you might specialize as a software engineer, depending on the regularity of people willing to pay money for you to solve their problems, but AI comes around and suddenly you're out of a job.

The danger is that the more regularities you depend on, the less free energy your body needs to keep around and the less free energy you have to suddenly react and adapt to a new environment. If tomorrow, gravity started being up and not down, most of us would have a bad time. If those regularities are interdependent, as geological/biological cycles tend to be, a few bad conditions could unravel the entire ecosystem.

chrisrickardabout 1 hour ago
Of course it’s an Australian spider
enjrolasabout 2 hours ago
The part from the paper which is so interesting is why the ant bites the trap in the first place. The paper suggests that the spider puts out a pheromone that attracts the ant and triggers the ant to aggressively bite the snare, but the pheromone only does this for the spider's target species, the green tree ant. The researchers watched three other ant species check out the snare, go "meh", and move on, unharmed, without showing any aggression towards the snare.
abrookewoodabout 2 hours ago
Yeah, that is pretty crazy. I wonder what it smells like? Has to be an enemy specific to that ant species right?
taf2about 1 hour ago
this gives me children of time vibes
pvaldesabout 4 hours ago
tclancyabout 3 hours ago
It is the year 2038. A new brand of slingshot is almost immediately removed from store shelves after multiple children receive through-and-through wounds.
jimnotgymabout 2 hours ago
HN pedantry time:

>discovered a remarkable new spider species...

Recently evolved then?

Or perhaps...

"An international team of researchers has recently discovered a remarkable spider species..."

jagged-chiselabout 2 hours ago
It’s a new discovery for humans.
chrisweeklyabout 1 hour ago
that's precisely their point