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#models#model#frontier#better#gpt#real#more#write#code#find

Discussion (10 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

heresalexandria2 minutes ago
This continuous cycle of fine-tuned open models beating frontier on (often vaguely labeled/defined) benchmarks doesn't provide an accurate comparison to the expanding generalized capabilities of the SoTA, which makes them effectively meaningless.

If we were to take these at face value, why is it that the frontier labs' models are making legitimate new discoveries (e.g. Erdős and Jacobian conjectures) and these models are not?

To me, a better signal of capability would be similarly performing novel work at the same or better level, which they presently are not. I say this as someone who very much looks forward to open models being more capable, but to deny the gap is misguided hopeful hype.

himata4113about 1 hour ago
What I really started to notice is that SOTA models are really good at putting themselves out of the job.

We can see this already with GPT how luna can do 90% of what sol is used for. The only reason why china still bothers 'distilling' models is accurate training data generation, something that oai and anthropic had to spend years collecting while trying to dodge legal challenges.

The more intelligent models get, the more people will offramp to cheaper solutions that get the job done. There's no real benefit to using a sota model when the accuracy is already 99% and I think that is the biggest danger to US labs.

com2kidabout 1 hour ago
The upper end is all about coding. If I have terra on extra high write code, Sol will find a plethora of bugs and rip the code apart.

Anything else? Sure use a cheaper model.

majormajor7 minutes ago
Sometimes that'll turn up real bugs, sometimes just overengineered designs, premature-optimization, and 1-in-a-million possibility "bugs".

And sometimes it's not about the model, it's just about refining the search space. E.g. I've had Opus write tests and GPT 5.5 write the implementation passing all the tests. Then ask about that specific implementation and find some real corner cases. Add those to tests, etc.

But the other fun trick that's been working better and better on the GPT-5.6 series is that even the lower-end models can find the things they didn't think of first when inspecting the already-written output.

I think there's still a bit of hard-to-quantify "creativity" to the bigger models - especially when trying to untangle (a) is this edge case that the model built a complicated way to avoid real/worth worrying about and also (b) even if it is real, is there not a better way to mitigate it? But it might be confirmation bias, in a way that definitely didn't use to be true about GPT-5.3 for planning and Composer 2 for implementation, say.

himata411328 minutes ago
You can have sol write code and terra will find a plethora of bugs and rip the code apart. In reality this is just the nature of advisory prompting and why advisor from omp.sh is such a great feature. They get caught as they're being written.
_3459 minutes ago
"87.3%

Share of the maximum achievable score our GRPO-trained 9B open-source model reached on catalog review, vs 76.9% for the best frontier configuration: a 13.5% relative improvement over the frontier, and 36% over its own untrained base (64.2%). The five frontier models, even with optimized prompts, plateaued within a tenth of a point of each other; the trained specialist cleared that ceiling."

_______

This seems very unlikely to be true. I have a lot of skepticism that frontier models like GPT 5.5 that are likely 2T+ parameters in size only got about 12% more accurate than an untrained 9b parameter LLM.

JSR_FDEDabout 1 hour ago
I like the 2x2 grid that describes when to fine-tune a model, when to use a frontier model, etc.

From the article it’s not clear how the scorer grades every episode - was it a frontier model that assigned the grade? How does that continue to work as the model that is being fine-tuned becomes better at the task than the frontier model?

nzeidabout 1 hour ago
I didn't read the Ramp article but this reads like a post hoc fallacy. Companies with 2x revenue have money to spend on AI. Companies with 1.15x revenue don't.
sudo_cowsayabout 1 hour ago
What benchmark is it? Is it super niche?
stldev13 minutes ago
They built their own benchmark and then trained directly against its scoring function.. seems to be the rage, but nothing convincing from the article alone.