Apple is getting this wrong

What really matters is the claim that Apple never raised those issues in the lawsuit with them. OpenAI claims the emails prove this, but to me all the emails prove is Apple sent an email that said “please see the attached letters”. We don’t know what is in the attachments but I imagine those were the relevant issues they raised.

Moreover OpenAI says, “[Apple] now admits that Apple employees reached out to him and asked for his help to locate this information”, but the transcript they cite seems to me to show the opposite? It’s Chang Liu asking for someone to help him copy data. The part where Apple employees reach out is later and it’s not for copying data to a hard drive… it’s basically “who should I talk to about this project?” Which makes sense because when he was contacted it was after he left (so he wouldn’t have access to data)

Can someone please tell me what am I missing? None of this makes sense with what they’re saying. The fact that the lawyer emailed the wrong person is moot if they caught it and resolved it days later.

What I don't understand that if two companies are in legal battle, can they discuss the case and try to influence public swing by doing a blog post or sharing evidence that is not verified by anyone other than the party sharing them.

OpenAI, even after raising this much capital, had never anticipated that something like this could happen yet keeps digging it's own grave.

At this point all that's left is for them to kiss and pay else they're done.

Apple vs OpenAI will be the war of legacies, trust and innovation.

Is it normal for a company this big to make a public blog post like this with almost no introduction to what they’re on about?

I would expect them to start out with something like Apple is suing us for yada yada yada, but instead it reads like the diary of a hurt teenager.

Setting aside the presented evidence, it feels weird for somewhat emotionally charged complaining like this to go on an official company blog. Companies are generally pretty tight-lipped about active litigation outside court documents, right? This just seems a bit amateurish, down to the title. Is public opinion about this case so important to them?

When I look at the imessage conversation, one thing strikes me: that guy looks to be using the same icloud account he used when working for Apple with OpenAI. Is he using his own personal account? Why do both Apple and OpenAI allow that in the first place, this look so amateur. I would have assumed each company would have opened a different account for him and locked him when leaving.

Is it standard practice at both Apple and OpenAI for employees to use their personal icloud account for work?

Not buying it. In the end, OpenAI will throw these people under the bus and settle out.

I'm not Apple's biggest fan either (I got super upset when they conveniently wiped out all information about the person comiting suicide in one of their conference rooms and TMZ caught the police line and the sherif said "there is a gun, next to a dead person, we can't say much at the moment" and that was it). But it is unlikely that Apple would depriortize its brand on a fake story.

Many years ago, back when I was a junior, I wrote something like this to my manager, complaining about another employee who has wronged me. I eventually decided not to send it because it just seemed so unprofessional.

Wild that a company this big would post this on their official, public blog.

Yay for more cherry-picked information.

A substantial amount of evidence in Apple's complaint isn't addressed, but what's shown here throws a decent amount of shade and doubt.

I have my popcorn ready for discovery. I hope it gets to that point, and I hope it proceeds to trial...

>They now admit that their outside lawyers emailed the wrong person after confusing two Asian last names—only after we brought this to their attention.

I find it bizarre that they felt the need to specify "Asian". What does that have to do with anything?

This feels like a trumpian tantrum from someone at openai. If they’re innocent, just win the lawsuit. Is this quibbling over details supposed to win the public over? Because afaik the public doesn’t know or care about this, and publicizing it just makes it worse.

Any self respecting lawyer would normally tell you to stfu and not post stuff like this. Judges don't like trial by press.

I think they are hoping what they did with Elon will work with Apple.

Corporate posting in the weeks immediately surrounding a legal case or ruling impacting tech companies is definitely my favorite brand of written text. Despite not paying full attention to EU legislation, I get reliably notified by Google about every tiny bit of antitrust from them posting a "Google brings millions into the EU's [field they are getting hit with antitrust in] ecosystem" vagueblog about it.

I can't see a judge looking kindly on this being published prior to trial.

It's in court already, fight it there. Even if you win public opinion with your point of view you can still lose in court.

Odd, regardless, OpenAI is spreading itself too thin, trying to fight wars on the enterprise, consumer, and hardware fronts, and will likely end up losing them all.

Models are a lost cause anyway - https://open.substack.com/pub/taikhooms/p/why-openrouter-can...

To me, this looks like OpenAI is terrified and tries to come out ahead of the public opinion to control the narrative. Such a shit company.

They built their whole business model on stolen data and act surprised when another company has zero trust in them.

Based on their track record this lawsuit is not unexpected at all.

One thing is probably true: airdrop failed

> Apple also accuses Tang Tan of trying to get and use their trade secrets. However, Tang has always been clear with the team that we do not want, and must not use, any confidential information from other companies.

> Apple’s request for a preliminary injunction is both based on false information and completely unnecessary because we do not have, nor want, any of their trade secrets.

Well, I guess that settles it, then! Case closed.

Seriously, what is point of this?

It’s a real Goliath vs Goliath thing we’ve got going here.

What is this kind of unprofessional blog-style rant doing on OpenAI’s website? Shouldn’t this be settled between the two companies themselves rather than trying to play the court of public opinion?

Besides, I have absolutely no idea what this is about or whether I should care.

I don’t really understand this, Apple obviously wants to force discovery and publishing stuff seems like it’d just widen the net there.

“Hi, this is highly irregular, please remove me from this thread”

Oops.

Why do American corporate PR statements read like a teen drama novel nowadays?

It feels weird doesn't it? It's because it is. Don't buy the story, we'll see what the court says.

Glad to see everyone dispassionately awaiting the adjudication of this dispute in the official venue!

Absolute cinema. OpenAI writing “100 reasons why it’s not my fault” post.

a very strong piece of evidence that apple is absolutely right, oai trying to do damage control already.

Small digression. Silicon Valley never ceases to deliver top quality entertainment. We desperately need Season 2 of Silicon Valley series.

On a serious notes, this seems like a desperate attempt to sway public opinion, but hey, Apple is no saint either. This will be a fun season.

It reads like OpenAI has been taking PR tips from the king of juvenile, ill-advised blog posts during legal proceedings — one Matt Mullenweg.

Guys, just stop posting. Listen to your counsel.

I wonder if they are throwing a public tantrum because GPT said that the were absolutely in the right and that it had the smoking gun to prove it

[delayed]

How shitty you must be as a company to go out and write this. Kindergarteners have better public policy. I have not seen any gathering of people (other than Trump's whole whatever that circus is called) this openly and easily tell lies. Gathering non profit funds then becoming for profit, Being built to do open source development and not shipping one result, going to the congress and saying "I'm not making any profit of this company" and rigging the world's economy... Now this shit "hey I was the nice person! I said nice things to Apple, look these are facts"

Keep your garbage for the court.

Can’t trust anything OpenAI says anymore. Seems like they’ve been acting in bad faith for far too long. Feels like a company run by ruthless lying sociopaths. And I used to be a fan and a customer. Not anymore.

> we do not have, nor want, any of their trade secrets. We’re much more interested in building innovative products and technologies that push the frontier.

The veiled implication here is hilariously petty. This entire document is hilariously petty. And apparently, ignorant of the news cycle.

This does not build more trust in OpenAI. If it's-totally-a-misunderstanding and Apple-should-have-communicated-better is the best they can offer, well, good luck in court.

Scam Altman at it again.

PR is not a moat buddy.

> after confusing two Asian last names

What a fucking a joke - throw some cheap shots in there trying to stir things up by pointing out they were Asian

Everything I read about OpenAI makes me dislike them more and more - really can’t stand that company’s culture - I have “friends” who work there and it makes complete sense

Reading through this, the Apple side of the story is actually the more fascinating one. It's frankly bizarre that a company of that scale had to rely on a former employee's (Chang Liu) personal iCloud access. It exposes a massive flaw in Apple's offboarding and internal system management. Combine that with their legal team confusing an Asian surname and emailing the wrong person, and publicly, Apple just ends up looking incompetent and deceitful.

By choosing to release these receipts to the public instead of saving them for court, OpenAI is executing a very deliberate PR strategy. They are effectively framing Apple as a sloppy, legacy company. As with most corporate litigation PR, information is selectively released. Here, OpenAI is trying to reframe Apple's own operational failures as the root cause, rather than any actual technology theft by OpenAI.

Looking at the bigger picture, it's clear who is actually at a disadvantage: OpenAI.

Whether Apple's tech was copied or not is almost secondary. The real existential threat for OpenAI is the legal discovery process, which could expose their internal AI architecture and training data to the public (and to Apple). That risk is exactly why OpenAI is playing this out in the court of public opinion—to force Apple's hand.

Ultimately, both sides have a lot to lose. Apple has always marketed itself on 'privacy, security, and perfection,' but this incident pulls back the curtain on how sloppy their internal operations can be. OpenAI has their own black boxes to protect. In the end, this isn't about truth; it's a pure media management war to see who blinks first.

I like how this addresses very little of Apple's core complaints. OpenAI are totally fucked.

  “They now admit that their outside lawyers emailed the wrong person after confusing two Asian last names—only after we brought this to their attention.”

Stunned they’re playing the racism card.

Apple is getting everything wrong these days. I am so disappointed after buying a Mac mini M4 last year how everything is sandboxed and behind insane numbers of security layers. I will be moving to Linux as soon as my wallet allows it.