Back to News
Advertisement
Advertisement

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

70% Positive

Analyzed from 2217 words in the discussion.

Trending Topics

#psychedelics#more#brain#lot#drug#few#times#things#treatment#psilocybin

Discussion (50 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

bbaylesabout 1 hour ago
Anecdata, but an acquaintance of mine struggled with lifelong anorexia. Severe enough that he was hospitalized a few times. With great effort he could cling to the bottom of the "normal BMI" range, but his life was generally ruled by the eating disorder - he couldn't have meals with people, he had to do various exercise rituals.

He was an early participant in one of these psychedelic studies a few years ago. After the first treatment, he said he couldn't really tell if it had any effect. But six months later, he was totally changed - able to function almost normally.

We should exercise our usual amount of skepticism about miracle treatments, but my hope is that his experience can be replicated.

Taronar32 minutes ago
Science generally works on IF Then statements when it comes to treatment, IF you take this drug your blood pressure will increase, IF you exercise more your life expectancy will increase, with mental health issues there very few IF then treatments, there are only if maybe treatments, this is for a slew of reasons such as how we don't really understand it, symptoms can be caused by many different underlying issues, and legal risk of prescribing something that isn't proven effective. That being said, the IF maybe treatments are the only way to treat mental health, Psilocybin falls in this category.
ulrikrasmussenabout 1 hour ago
I lost a family member to anorexia, and the only thing I really regret is that I didn't suggest that we try psychedelic therapy now that everything else had failed and things looked pretty grim. I mostly blame myself for not pushing the idea. But I am also angry at the war on drugs which has caused all use of psychoactive drugs to be associated with such taboo.
inigyouabout 2 hours ago
Psychedelics open your brain up to rewiring in some way, and can be used under direction to treat a lot of things. But of course, people who didn't like the Vietnam War used them recreationally, which is why the US government made them globally illegal.
an0malousabout 2 hours ago
Psychedelics desolve the conceptual prison your mind is in, the government made them illegal because they build those prisons.

Charitably, you could argue a functional society involves some amount of indoctrination into a set of shared beliefs and a large percentage of people losing that indoctrination would destroy society. Could the US function if everyone was a pacifist, anti-capitalist, hippie? I think that was and still is the primary concern.

bushwartabout 1 hour ago
Psychedelics can dissolve more than the mind's conceptual prisons, perhaps much more of the mind than one would like. How did the hippie-era stereotype of the burned out acid head disappear so quickly from popular culture?
gchamonliveabout 1 hour ago
Kary Mullis is known to have used a lot of it and discovered PCR while off psychedelics. There's also the famous Hoffman's bycicle day. The stereotype is just that, and might be a result of lack of mental stimulation rather than LSD abuse, which is possibly the safest drug in terms of toxicity.
inigyouabout 2 hours ago
Interestingly, we know the CIA tried to use psychedelics to make people become the opposite of hippies, and they failed. This was part of MKULTRA. They were banned shortly after this failure.
mikert89about 1 hour ago
anyone i have met that did Psychedelics more than a few times, permanently changed their brain chemistry in a way that was obvious. sure they dissolve some kind of prison, but many people never make it back from that dissolution and end up somewhere worse
an0malous21 minutes ago
Sure but "somewhere worse" is usually defined relative to the current societal framework. Society requires almost every adult to participate in labor, if LSD made you want to sit around and make paintings all day instead of work we would consider it a negative even though it would be a positive within other conceivable societal frameworks. For example, if AI removes the need for labor then maybe it would be fine and even desirable for everyone to just be high and make paintings all day. The complete dissolution that some people experience is likewise terrible for society, because people with no ego are poor, unmotivated workers amongst other potential behavioral issues, but in a Tibetan monastery you might be considered a saint. Ramana Maharshi was supposedly found as a young boy living in a pit with flies and bugs eating away at his flesh, he was completely oblivious to even his personal wellbeing much less societal norms and expectations. He was and still is considered one of the greatest living sages in recent history.

I'm not saying that everyone should go do LSD and I don't know the details or stories of the people you saw. Like I said, I understand the perspective of people who feel responsible for maintaining a societal order. I'm just trying to point out how relative all of this is to societal frameworks.

inigyou34 minutes ago
As I understand it it can be a lot worse, a lot better, or anywhere in between. Scientifically backed coaching can probably shift it towards the "better" side. This is a new area of research because the whole thing was written off for several decades due to the war on drugs.
bossyTeacherabout 1 hour ago
> anyone i have met that did Psychedelics more than a few times, permanently changed their brain chemistry in a way that was obvious. sure they dissolve some kind of prison, but many people never make it back from that dissolution and end up somewhere worse

Way to generalise. I also know people who drank water, went to sleep and never woke up.

Ego dissolution is dosage dependent and you don't need to reach that point to get positive benefits.

Also, many people do psychdelics that probably shouldn't.

virgil_disgr4ceabout 1 hour ago
> did Psychedelics more than a few times

If you want to specify LSD, you should do that, not "psychedelics." There are many, many psychedelics. They have sometimes radical differences. You cannot generalize that word into "many people never make it back." That is flat-out wrong, not to mention harmful.

joinjuneabout 2 hours ago
Drug use changes the way you vote. The people who were running the country during the Vietnam war recognized this and, along with the people who owned industry/media, didn't want that kind of change to go mainstream.
tokaiabout 2 hours ago
That was not why they started the war on drugs, and we have that on record.
MSFT_Edgingabout 1 hour ago
Yeah, Disenfranchise the hippies and the blacks by targeting those communities with heavy policing. Sorta like today where there's similar drug use levels between white and black populations, but one side is more heavily policed than the other.
guerrillaabout 1 hour ago
Always beleive the record...
virgil_disgr4ceabout 1 hour ago
Whose record?
stephenitis15 minutes ago
I attended a presentation at the maps conference in ‘23(?). The presenter said that the effect was not enduring for those on already on a path to recovery. She hypothesized that the body need nourishment and a lot of ancillary support to sustain that kind of neurological change.

(I’ll try to search for it when I have free time)

Psychedelic trips are taxing on the body and I think I agree with the hypothesis nutrients are underestimated in supporting a healthy mind in these states, from personal experience.

mikert89about 1 hour ago
Psychedelics arent that far from turning your brain off and then turning it back on again

but anyone i have met that did Psychedelics more than a few times, permanently changed their brain chemistry in a way that was obvious. clearly they are doing some kind of unraveling that doesnt fully bounce back

reliablereason29 minutes ago
Clearly it impossible to observe brain chemistry by looking at a person.

Psychedelics does however have longterm behavioural effects that are statistically significant and to some extent observable.

Using a definition of brain chemistry that defines brain chemistry at an atomic level you may assert that a change in behavioural patterns reflect a change in brain chemistry. But with such a definition anything that a person experiences does that.

temp0826about 1 hour ago
Why would you want your brain to ravel back up? I've worked at ayahuasca retreats and know many people who do it for a living (who are many of the most grounded people I know). Using these things in a therapeutic manner is a completely different thing than using them recreationally, might as well be a different substance. I'd guess those people who "permanently changed their brain" (whatever that means) were not in a context for actually healing.
mikert89about 1 hour ago
I believe that the drugs cause structural changes to the brain that make it more difficult to function in the reward structure of society. You can claim through a philosophical lens that society is flawed and so this is okay, but ive seen it derail peoples lives, such that they are just living in some rural area with limited participation in real life

ive barely taken them, but i watched many people change over years of use.

temp082636 minutes ago
guess it depends on what "derail" means (meaning, do you actually know one's internal state and if they are happy?). Is something wrong with living alone in a rural area if you are happy? (This sounds great to me, for reference!).

I've watched hundreds of people take them in great containers with great support. It's never a good idea to make big changes right away, but we take small steps to adjust our lives so we can actually be happy. Yes, even if that is less "productive". Why do we do the things we do anyways?

nathan_comptonabout 1 hour ago
> just living in some rural area with limited participation in real life

They might say the same thing about your lifestyle. The "reward structure of society" is highly abstract these days, arguably disconnected from "real life". You could say monks are disconnected from "real life."

This is a weird take, I think.

jdietrichabout 1 hour ago
Sorry, but the answer is almost certainly no. We now have good quality data on psylocybin as a treatment for depression; at best, it's slightly more effective than existing treatments, at the cost of a small but significant increased risk side-effects (primarily severe acute anxiety and psychosis, possibly HPPD). We have less data on other psychedelics and other conditions, but none of it looks spectacular when you take into account the usual biases affecting small trials of novel treatments.

Psychedelics are likely to be a good option for some patients, it's good to have another tool in the armamentarium, but the idea that they're a revolution in psychiatry is simply no longer credible.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39627679/

Disclosure: I have participated in a clinical trial of psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression and did not see any meaningful benefit.

Taronar30 minutes ago
This is a treatment that can help people. just because it didn't help you does not mean it's ineffective in totality which is the stance you seem to take.
jhoechtlabout 2 hours ago
We hear a lot of psilocybine lately, it cures altsheimer, people in coma awake miraculously. As long as we do not understand the workings, it reminds me of the days when radium or other nuclear substances were the cure for everything.
Cthulhu_about 1 hour ago
We don't fully understand the workings because it is (was?) classified as a drug, making research into it a lot more complicated. Thankfully there are charities and organizations that lobbied to make it more researchable.
cachiusabout 1 hour ago
Funny how 'drug' in English is a homonym for at the same time bad recreational substance and good one to cure illness.

In German it's Droge and Medikament

cachius23 minutes ago
TIL I learned about Janus words that have two opposite meanings depending on context, also known as contronyms or auto-antonyms:

Cleave: To split apart ('cleave the wood') or to adhere closely ('cleave to one's principles')

Sanction: To give official permission/approval or to impose a penalty/ban

Oversight: Watchful supervision or an unintentional mistake/omission

Dust: To remove fine particles ('dust the shelf') or to sprinkle them on ('dust the cake with sugar')

Bolt: To secure firmly in place or to run away suddenly

Clip: To fasten together ('clip the papers') or to cut off ('clip the coupon')

Fast: Moving quickly or fixed firmly in place ('stuck fast')

Left: Departed (verb) or remaining (adjective)

Screen: To display/show ('screen a movie') or to hide/conceal

Weather: To withstand or endure ('weather the storm') or to wear away/deteriorate over time

Peruse: To read carefully and thoroughly or to skim casually

Trim: To decorate/adorn ('trim the tree') or to cut away excess ('trim the hedges')

Rent: To pay for the use of something or to receive payment for allowing someone to use something

Table: In British English, to propose for discussion; in American English, to postpone or remove from discussion

inigyouabout 2 hours ago
It's a drug that makes your neurons more susceptible to forming new connections. Of course it's going to be useful for a lot of brain treatment. In addition, it's highly illegal which means these things didn't get found out a lot sooner.
exhumetabout 1 hour ago
upside is that in most states you can just go buy the spores and they just so happen to conveniently have spawn bags right nearby. BUT DONT EVER COMBINE THE TWO AND WAIT A FEW MONTHS
Denatoniumabout 1 hour ago
Here on the east coast, you can just wait until May comes around and it rains a couple days in a row. Then, you can just go for a walk by your local river/creek and wade through the seas of Japanese knotweed, lesser celandine, and box elder maple while looking for mushrooms growing out of the wet woody debris. Between them and nearby mulch beds, SWIM has allegedly found psilocybe ovoideocystidiata pretty consistently for the past several years, in Minecraft. Just don't try and take any shortcuts with the identification. It's better to throw out questionable specimens than risk needing a liver transplant.
cachiusabout 1 hour ago
We hear a lot about LLMs lately, they solve reasoning, mimic empathy, and awaken consciousness miraculously. As long as we do not understand the workings of the mind and brain, it reminds me of the days when machine learning or Bitcoin were the cure for everything.
nathan_comptonabout 1 hour ago
I think the main difference is that radium was new and people have been using psychedelics forever.
cainxinthabout 2 hours ago
firebot29 minutes ago
Mushrooms have always made me vomit... So treat anorexia with bulimia? Hmmm.
llm_nerdabout 2 hours ago
This feels like a case where Betteridge's law of headlines applies, or at least should be presumed. [Recreational Drug] solves [malady] is such a hopeful go to and has recurred countless times.

I've partaken of 'shrooms a number of times: Fun times. I've even grown them (protip - not worth the trouble. It's amazing how something that grows in literal shit is suddenly the most fragile process imaginable when you try your PFTek method, and contamination will always be ruining your process). But people keep trying to make psilocybin a magic solution, and the studies have been extremely weak if not contradictory, and these stories always lean on worthless anecdotes.

mosburgerabout 2 hours ago
Here's yet another anecdote of near-zero real value to add to the pile: I treated my severe treatment-resistant depression with ketamine infusions. It's obviously not the same as psilocybin, but I believe the current thinking is that psychoelics and dissociatives both have some positive effect on neuroplasticity, and that sorta checks out in my case. I'd say you need to combine it with some good cognitive behavioral therapy - it seemed to make CBT a lot more effective for me where it failed in the past because my brain was more open to rewiring. I haven't been re-treated in a few years now, but I still feel a lot better.

But you're also totally right - my story is just an anecdote, and these sort of headlines that used to have cannabis as a miracle cure for all types of things seem to have been replaced with headlines about psilocybin (or occasionally, ketamine) curing everything instead. I totally get the skepticism, but I'm a believer that we might be onto something w/r/t depression or other things that are treatable via CBT at least - the article mentioned "combined with talk therapy" ... not sure what therapy method was used alongside the psilocybin.

MSFT_Edgingabout 1 hour ago
People tend to view these things as "pop the drug, and you're cured" but if you really want to make the most of the neuroplasticity, you need to make a conscious plan ahead of time so that you can guide the trip and focus on the problems you're genuinely facing.

The drug won't magically give you the answer but you may reach some more profound general breakthroughs regarding your own behavior, patterns you fall into unconsciously, etc.

Similar to how addiction and associated behaviors are really only resolved when the person addicted decides to make the change, you can use these to influence into a similar state.

jgalt212about 2 hours ago
SciAm really should prefer a headline such as:

Psilocybin opens up new pathways to treating anorexia

phoronixrlyabout 2 hours ago
Not even that... One quoted study says it 'provides preliminary support for the feasibility, safety and potential efficacy' of the drug. The other study is funded by a company selling psychedelics as potential medicines...